Do great students sometimes get shut out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

Oh so in other words if the strongest applicant from a certain school profile is rejected then all the applicants with inferior stats from the same school profile get rejected too?

Big if true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

This is happening at our private

Colleges running admissions by largely comparing students within schools create this problem. One the one hand, a comparison like that is useful/necessary (esp if there is rampant grading inflation in any given school). On the other hand, it really kills students who apply from challenging schools, especially if they belong to a strong cohort. TO and/or general devaluation of test scores also means comparisons will increasingly be made within schools. Clueless DC private school CCOs are unable to manage this well -- unlike NY Privates ( for example). It is a nightmare. My advice to DMV parents: If top 10/20 placement in college is the goal, get your kids out of top privates and into less competitive schools.

Totally agree. Each year the system appears more broken than the last. Until and unless the massive supply-demand problem between the number of slots at the top schools (which have not increased by much in the last 30 years) and the number of serious applicants is not resolved, all the perversities are mere symptoms. You fix one, the problem re-appears elsewhere.

Who’s holding the gun to your head and forcing you to participate in what you believe to be a fundamentally broken system?

Colleges can do whatever they want to you because they know you are so obsessed with nonsense like “prestige” you will literally do whatever they want and jump through any hoop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

This is happening at our private

Colleges running admissions by largely comparing students within schools create this problem. One the one hand, a comparison like that is useful/necessary (esp if there is rampant grading inflation in any given school). On the other hand, it really kills students who apply from challenging schools, especially if they belong to a strong cohort. TO and/or general devaluation of test scores also means comparisons will increasingly be made within schools. Clueless DC private school CCOs are unable to manage this well -- unlike NY Privates ( for example). It is a nightmare. My advice to DMV parents: If top 10/20 placement in college is the goal, get your kids out of top privates and into less competitive schools.

Totally agree. Each year the system appears more broken than the last. Until and unless the massive supply-demand problem between the number of slots at the top schools (which have not increased by much in the last 30 years) and the number of serious applicants is not resolved, all the perversities are mere symptoms. You fix one, the problem re-appears elsewhere.

Who’s holding the gun to your head and forcing you to participate in what you believe to be a fundamentally broken system?

Colleges can do whatever they want to you because they know you are so obsessed with nonsense like “prestige” you will literally do whatever they want and jump through any hoop.

OP here. I am not interested in prestige, just a college degree from a school employers have heard of. It was just surprising how DS's results ended up, and it made me wonder if there are kids who aren't getting any acceptances. We thought the school he was deferred from (71% acceptance rate per Niche, he's well over the 75 per in SAT/ACT) was a sure thing.

[Anonymous]

PP on the HYPSM school taking 7 applicants - this was very recently.

Assuming that the schools will reject any kids below the valedictorian doesn’t make sense to me because there are so many other factors that are important in the process that rank. Intended major is one that comes immediately to mind. Some schools are really hunting for kids to satisfy specific needs, and that kid isn’t always the valedictorian. The relative competitiveness of a computer science major is very different from the competitiveness of a kid with a demonstrated interest in the humanities.

That said, it is true that highly selective schools are trying to accept kids from a larger selection of high schools and aren’t as keen to accept a lot of kids from the best-known private. Maybe that’s what’s inspiring all the worry, which one is at a school like that is justified. I do think parents enroll their kids in very rigorous high pressure high schools believing that colleges will understand if the rank or GPA is lower as a result. I largely think that is not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

Oh so in other words if the strongest applicant from a certain school profile is rejected then all the applicants with inferior stats from the same school profile get rejected too?

Big if true.

This can be true - depending on major and other characteristics of the applicant….

Example: student body pres, ranked 2, whose also a star Varsity athlete and pianist majoring in non-stem….if that kid applies widely, could block many kids ranked 3-15 below him at a private…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that there are absolutely people who misjudge what is a safety for them, and confuse likely with safety. Then they are surprised when they don't get in.

If they pick true safeties, which can either be a school that have automatic admissions for your stats, or a school that notifies early enough that you are making your RD decisions with an acceptance in hand, then no it doesn't happen.

+1. It happens to people like those on this board whose kid’s lowest “safety” is somewhere like Rice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. There are far more well-qualified applicants than there are slots. Same for the working world, dating, et cetera.

Really? So PP's kid with 3.85 gpa and 1480 SAT was the least qualified of JMU admits? Please.

You have fundamentally misunderstood the college application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. There are far more well-qualified applicants than there are slots. Same for the working world, dating, et cetera.

Really? So PP's kid with 3.85 gpa and 1480 SAT was the least qualified of JMU admits? Please.

You have fundamentally misunderstood the college application process.

"There are far more well-qualified applicants than there are slots."

You're saying that everyone who was admitted had higher stats. Nope. Not possible at JMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there are absolutely people who misjudge what is a safety for them, and confuse likely with safety. Then they are surprised when they don't get in.

If they pick true safeties, which can either be a school that have automatic admissions for your stats, or a school that notifies early enough that you are making your RD decisions with an acceptance in hand, then no it doesn't happen.

+1. It happens to people like those on this board whose kid’s lowest “safety” is somewhere like Rice.

OP here. My DS's top safety was Auburn. That's no Rice and still a safety last I checked.

[Anonymous]

Which school deferred him? There were a number of big state schools that deferred a ton of applicants this year but I imagine they will take many of them in the Spring. Read about the particular school on College Confidential or post it here and people might be able to advise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

This is happening at our private

Colleges running admissions by largely comparing students within schools create this problem. One the one hand, a comparison like that is useful/necessary (esp if there is rampant grading inflation in any given school). On the other hand, it really kills students who apply from challenging schools, especially if they belong to a strong cohort. TO and/or general devaluation of test scores also means comparisons will increasingly be made within schools. Clueless DC private school CCOs are unable to manage this well -- unlike NY Privates ( for example). It is a nightmare. My advice to DMV parents: If top 10/20 placement in college is the goal, get your kids out of top privates and into less competitive schools.

Totally agree. Each year the system appears more broken than the last. Until and unless the massive supply-demand problem between the number of slots at the top schools (which have not increased by much in the last 30 years) and the number of serious applicants is not resolved, all the perversities are mere symptoms. You fix one, the problem re-appears elsewhere.

Who’s holding the gun to your head and forcing you to participate in what you believe to be a fundamentally broken system?

Colleges can do whatever they want to you because they know you are so obsessed with nonsense like “prestige” you will literally do whatever they want and jump through any hoop.

OP here. I am not interested in prestige, just a college degree from a school employers have heard of. It was just surprising how DS's results ended up, and it made me wonder if there are kids who aren't getting any acceptances. We thought the school he was deferred from (71% acceptance rate per Niche, he's well over the 75 per in SAT/ACT) was a sure thing.

I’m confused. Was this your DC’s ED? Or this was one of the school’s on your DC’s list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which school deferred him? There were a number of big state schools that deferred a ton of applicants this year but I imagine they will take many of them in the Spring. Read about the particular school on College Confidential or post it here and people might be able to advise.

Auburn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only ones I've heard of being rejected everywhere are those applying to only reach schools. High stats and applying to 15+ schools with single digit acceptance rates does not guarantee an acceptance.
But if you do that, you deserve to be left stranded. Pick true targets and safeties and you will have a great place to attend

They totally deserve it! I think they should also be flogged and pilloried. Smite these wayward youths for their hubris, amirite?

DP, but your absurd melodrama aside, the high stats kids who made reasonable choices (including reaches and high targets, but also multiple true safeties) aren’t getting shut out. The I Only Deserrrrrrve The Best Kids are. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Second DC applying in this round. The real shut-out risk is that the top student in her class got rejected/deferred for ED. Now the top student (and a couple of others like her close to the very top of the class) will apply RD everywhere. And nobody below them has a chance anywhere T30. You get shut out by your own classmates.

This is happening at our private

Colleges running admissions by largely comparing students within schools create this problem. One the one hand, a comparison like that is useful/necessary (esp if there is rampant grading inflation in any given school). On the other hand, it really kills students who apply from challenging schools, especially if they belong to a strong cohort. TO and/or general devaluation of test scores also means comparisons will increasingly be made within schools. Clueless DC private school CCOs are unable to manage this well -- unlike NY Privates ( for example). It is a nightmare. My advice to DMV parents: If top 10/20 placement in college is the goal, get your kids out of top privates and into less competitive schools.

Totally agree. Each year the system appears more broken than the last. Until and unless the massive supply-demand problem between the number of slots at the top schools (which have not increased by much in the last 30 years) and the number of serious applicants is not resolved, all the perversities are mere symptoms. You fix one, the problem re-appears elsewhere.

Who’s holding the gun to your head and forcing you to participate in what you believe to be a fundamentally broken system?

Colleges can do whatever they want to you because they know you are so obsessed with nonsense like “prestige” you will literally do whatever they want and jump through any hoop.

OP here. I am not interested in prestige, just a college degree from a school employers have heard of. It was just surprising how DS's results ended up, and it made me wonder if there are kids who aren't getting any acceptances. We thought the school he was deferred from (71% acceptance rate per Niche, he's well over the 75 per in SAT/ACT) was a sure thing.

I’m confused. Was this your DC’s ED? Or this was one of the school’s on your DC’s list?

EA Auburn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. There are far more well-qualified applicants than there are slots. Same for the working world, dating, et cetera.

Really? So PP's kid with 3.85 gpa and 1480 SAT was the least qualified of JMU admits? Please.

You have fundamentally misunderstood the college application process.

"There are far more well-qualified applicants than there are slots."

You're saying that everyone who was admitted had higher stats. Nope. Not possible at JMU.

First of all, you’re not quoting me, and secondly, no, I did not say the words you put into my mouth. Does your applicant share your lack of reading comprehension?

Once again, you have fundamentally misunderstood the college application process.