Texas judge grants woman’s request for abortion despite state ban

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

We’re in real “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” territory here when abortion is healthcare and a woman should be able to get an abortion when she needs it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to thank AG Paxton for ensuring the Dems have a really good shot at sweeping the 2024 elections.

Are you sure? Knowing the GOP maybe they just won’t allow the blue and populous places to vote at all. Instead of one place to drop off ballots in Democratic areas, maybe no places. That’s fascism, and it’s exactly what the GOP does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I work in healthcare and there is still a lot of grey associated with that list in terms of when one makes a call. So you have a slight infection but your wbc are not elevated, what call to make? Risk of hemorrhage is certain but it hasn't started yet, you have to wait? Basically yes, this does seem to mean waiting until a woman's health proceeds to danger even if the risk nears certainty that it will get there, but hasn't yet.

If the woman wants to abort because she is diagnosed with cancer while pregnant, but the fetus is stable and she's only stage 1/2, is she allowed by this list? Does she have to wait till the cancer progresses?

This is actually a very good question. I am sure this will be the next case brought in one of the crazy states. I have a friend who had to terminate her first pregnancy to get cancer treatment. This is not uncommon and a woman cannot receive chemo or radiation while pregnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I work in healthcare and there is still a lot of grey associated with that list in terms of when one makes a call. So you have a slight infection but your wbc are not elevated, what call to make? Risk of hemorrhage is certain but it hasn't started yet, you have to wait? Basically yes, this does seem to mean waiting until a woman's health proceeds to danger even if the risk nears certainty that it will get there, but hasn't yet.

If the woman wants to abort because she is diagnosed with cancer while pregnant, but the fetus is stable and she's only stage 1/2, is she allowed by this list? Does she have to wait till the cancer progresses?

This is actually a very good question. I am sure this will be the next case brought in one of the crazy states. I have a friend who had to terminate her first pregnancy to get cancer treatment. This is not uncommon and a woman cannot receive chemo or radiation while pregnant.

Doesn't seem covered in the document. Plus you have to factor in whether the local attorney general agrees with the physician determination of risk fitting the law as written. They can bring in a more conservative doctor with a different opinion to legislate the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

And when this happens at 3am and the lawyers are sleeping, what then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I work in healthcare and there is still a lot of grey associated with that list in terms of when one makes a call. So you have a slight infection but your wbc are not elevated, what call to make? Risk of hemorrhage is certain but it hasn't started yet, you have to wait? Basically yes, this does seem to mean waiting until a woman's health proceeds to danger even if the risk nears certainty that it will get there, but hasn't yet.

If the woman wants to abort because she is diagnosed with cancer while pregnant, but the fetus is stable and she's only stage 1/2, is she allowed by this list? Does she have to wait till the cancer progresses?

This is actually a very good question. I am sure this will be the next case brought in one of the crazy states. I have a friend who had to terminate her first pregnancy to get cancer treatment. This is not uncommon and a woman cannot receive chemo or radiation while pregnant.

“Still, the Texas law's vague terminology complicates physicians' ability to determine what's legally permissible care, said Joanna Grossman, a professor at SMU Dedman School of Law. She said nothing in the statute tells a doctor "how much risk there needs to be before we label this legally 'life-threatening.'"

And if a woman can't obtain an abortion through legal means, she has "grim options," according to Hester, the medical ethicist. She'll have to sort through questions like: "Is it best for her to get the cancer treatment on the time scale recommended by medicine," he said, "or to delay that cancer treatment in order to maximize the health benefits to the fetus?"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-laws-cancer-treatment-pregnant-patients/

[Anonymous]

This has probably been brought up, but I can't help remember all the anti-choice people who insisted women who had gone out of state or risked death (the woman who had to become septic for example) never had to worry because the law was clear in their cases, and doctors didn't need to worry either.
I don't know if she opted to be a test case, or given 3 ER visits if it is risky for her to travel far enough, or if she can't afford the travel (and the legal services are prop bono) but this sure puts the kibosh on that.

[Anonymous]

--forgot to add, or the doctors who worried about the gray areas they saw, which the anti-choice people insisted didn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I work in healthcare and there is still a lot of grey associated with that list in terms of when one makes a call. So you have a slight infection but your wbc are not elevated, what call to make? Risk of hemorrhage is certain but it hasn't started yet, you have to wait? Basically yes, this does seem to mean waiting until a woman's health proceeds to danger even if the risk nears certainty that it will get there, but hasn't yet.

If the woman wants to abort because she is diagnosed with cancer while pregnant, but the fetus is stable and she's only stage 1/2, is she allowed by this list? Does she have to wait till the cancer progresses?

This is actually a very good question. I am sure this will be the next case brought in one of the crazy states. I have a friend who had to terminate her first pregnancy to get cancer treatment. This is not uncommon and a woman cannot receive chemo or radiation while pregnant.

“Still, the Texas law's vague terminology complicates physicians' ability to determine what's legally permissible care, said Joanna Grossman, a professor at SMU Dedman School of Law. She said nothing in the statute tells a doctor "how much risk there needs to be before we label this legally 'life-threatening.'"

And if a woman can't obtain an abortion through legal means, she has "grim options," according to Hester, the medical ethicist. She'll have to sort through questions like: "Is it best for her to get the cancer treatment on the time scale recommended by medicine," he said, "or to delay that cancer treatment in order to maximize the health benefits to the fetus?"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-laws-cancer-treatment-pregnant-patients/

Oh great. Another A plus for the Texas maternal healthcare system.

This does not sound like the place to be carrying pregnancies and trying to deliver babies. If you have other options I would take them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, every pregnancy has risks. So her pregnancy is not unusual in that regard.

Also, termination of a pregnancy has risks, and studies have shown termination of a pregnancy can cause issues with fertility.

It’s really a tragic situation being used in a political manner. I have seen lots of people in life threatening medical situations and this currently isn’t one of them. It could rapidly develop into a life threatening situation, and the mother would receive medical care in that case.

So you are admitting that you’d rather this woman and mother be actively dying before getting medical care?

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

So the answer is yes, then? You’d rather she suffer severe complications possibly resulting in her death instead of receiving medical care now. Got it.

I get you are incapable of having a discussion without being intellectually dishonest.

She would not be receiving medical care now because doctors don’t abort babies in hospitals unless there are urgent or emergent medical issues. Doctors don’t consider abortion medical care unless someone’s life is in danger. Mom is ok and baby is not able to be “fixed” with a surgical procedure.

She can drive to NM and have an elective abortion.

Abortions occur in clinics and not hospitals because doctors don’t want to perform abortions unless the medical necessity is great. They use their skill and training to save lives.

How do you know that? I haven't caught where she lives but Texas is a very large state. She's had ER visits, could be a chancy situation, I don't know what her means are, NM clinics have been swamped haven't they?
Most doctors do consider abortions medical care, some doctors are conservatives and do not, but that doesn't mean all of them don't. It's Texas law and the AG that says it is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, every pregnancy has risks. So her pregnancy is not unusual in that regard.

Also, termination of a pregnancy has risks, and studies have shown termination of a pregnancy can cause issues with fertility.

It’s really a tragic situation being used in a political manner. I have seen lots of people in life threatening medical situations and this currently isn’t one of them. It could rapidly develop into a life threatening situation, and the mother would receive medical care in that case.

So you are admitting that you’d rather this woman and mother be actively dying before getting medical care?

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

So the answer is yes, then? You’d rather she suffer severe complications possibly resulting in her death instead of receiving medical care now. Got it.

I get you are incapable of having a discussion without being intellectually dishonest.

She would not be receiving medical care now because doctors don’t abort babies in hospitals unless there are urgent or emergent medical issues. Doctors don’t consider abortion medical care unless someone’s life is in danger. Mom is ok and baby is not able to be “fixed” with a surgical procedure.

She can drive to NM and have an elective abortion.

Abortions occur in clinics and not hospitals because doctors don’t want to perform abortions unless the medical necessity is great. They use their skill and training to save lives.

Complicated abortions where the mother’s life or health is in jeopardy absolutely occur at hospitals. And doctors do want to perform them when they’re necessary to save their patients. Including this woman’s doctor who has been to court with her.

It’s terrifying that this PP doesn’t understand that therepeutic abortions are medical care ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, every pregnancy has risks. So her pregnancy is not unusual in that regard.

Also, termination of a pregnancy has risks, and studies have shown termination of a pregnancy can cause issues with fertility.

It’s really a tragic situation being used in a political manner. I have seen lots of people in life threatening medical situations and this currently isn’t one of them. It could rapidly develop into a life threatening situation, and the mother would receive medical care in that case.

So you are admitting that you’d rather this woman and mother be actively dying before getting medical care?

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

So the answer is yes, then? You’d rather she suffer severe complications possibly resulting in her death instead of receiving medical care now. Got it.

I get you are incapable of having a discussion without being intellectually dishonest.

She would not be receiving medical care now because doctors don’t abort babies in hospitals unless there are urgent or emergent medical issues. Doctors don’t consider abortion medical care unless someone’s life is in danger. Mom is ok and baby is not able to be “fixed” with a surgical procedure.

She can drive to NM and have an elective abortion.

Abortions occur in clinics and not hospitals because doctors don’t want to perform abortions unless the medical necessity is great. They use their skill and training to save lives.

Complicated abortions where the mother’s life or health is in jeopardy absolutely occur at hospitals. And doctors do want to perform them when they’re necessary to save their patients. Including this woman’s doctor who has been to court with her.

It’s terrifying that this PP doesn’t understand that therepeutic abortions are medical care ..

It’s terrifying you don’t understand this patient isn’t entitled to a medical abortion under Texas law at this time.

Her ob-gyn will not perform a medical abortion because the patient doesn’t meet the criteria. The patient can get an abortion in NM, wait until the baby’s heart stops, or be legit diagnosed with a life threatening medical condition and receive a medical abortion in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

And when this happens at 3am and the lawyers are sleeping, what then?

The doctor saves his patient’s life.