Being summoned back to the office four days a week and anxious/sick over it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what can truly help working parents is a 6 hr day on-site and then ability to log in for 2 hrs from home. This can curtail so much anxiety around pick ups, getting dinner on the table etc.

My kids were 9 when COVID hit and they are 13 now, DH and I both WFH for last 4 yrs and we have zero stress levels in terms of pickups, dinner etc. I do go in 1-2 days/week but I have the option to go in for 5-6 hrs and then resume work when I reach home.

IMO not needing to spend 8hrs+commute time is a game changer.

I don't know about this, my manager is willing to give that flexibility (which I appreciate! He's really trying!), but if you have a very long commute it doesn't make up for the fact that the 3 hours round trip you lose comes from somewhere. Either you can't pick up kids, or you make up work when you're home together in the evening, or you don't sleep.

Long commutes are just really hard, and no, some of us can't move closer for family/dual career/financial reasons (it's not that we've "prioritized a McMansion in the exurbs" or whatever the DCUM straw man is). It was so great to live without them, or at least minimize them for a while.

If they want me in the office that badly, the 3 hours is coming out of the time they pay me for, not my time.

Why some people here are so happy to be urging others to roll over and give back the single largest quality of life upgrade people who would otherwise be commuters have ever known is beyond me. It’s a form of compensation and I am not giving it back.

So if your employer said you needed to be back in your office to keep your job would you just quit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

Hopefully, your job doesn't involve a whole lot of fifth grade math. (Or writing, or knowing the difference between less and fewer, but one thing at a time.)

That poster is the infamous 4-jobs troll.

Yep, how's it going J1, J2, J3 guy?

I have you know I am all J1 now in the office 100 percent on time. I am becoming a bit intolerable. I got the job big corner office, executive parking spot, my own admin, LTIP, Exec Bonus, Sign on Bonus, but I reported to CEO and damn office right next to CEO. I don’t like that much closeness, lucky for me CEO had a stroke. Literally. My authorities are high now with him gone. I going full The Office meets Wolf of Wall Street meets Scarface. I got no CEO up my butt and the Board for now loves me!!

For fun today at a meeting I asked Controller how was your vacation day. He goes what? I go I came be your office yesterday and you were not there. He goes I was working remote. I go must be nice to wear pajamas all day. I have to watch myself. But loving my best life. Will be short lived. Next CEO might ride me like a rented mule.

But hey I can always flip to multi jobs. Pay my boy in Pakistan to do it. Or chill and grill if canned with a severance package, sign on bonus, and annual bonus in 2023 already paid me who cares.

I do want to hit one or two more over the top offsite plus my corporate card, my corporate phone, my admin, my capachino machine, my catered lunches do I really have to go back to basement and give up my staff?

Remote staff sucks. I had full remote staff team in my J2 and it sucked. Needy people but not butt kissing. Not like today when a staff made a good cake last night and brought me a slice,

Real men don’t work remote. And if they do they J1, J2 and J3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

Hopefully, your job doesn't involve a whole lot of fifth grade math. (Or writing, or knowing the difference between less and fewer, but one thing at a time.)

That poster is the infamous 4-jobs troll.

Yep, how's it going J1, J2, J3 guy?

I have you know I am all J1 now in the office 100 percent on time. I am becoming a bit intolerable. I got the job big corner office, executive parking spot, my own admin, LTIP, Exec Bonus, Sign on Bonus, but I reported to CEO and damn office right next to CEO. I don’t like that much closeness, lucky for me CEO had a stroke. Literally. My authorities are high now with him gone. I going full The Office meets Wolf of Wall Street meets Scarface. I got no CEO up my butt and the Board for now loves me!!

For fun today at a meeting I asked Controller how was your vacation day. He goes what? I go I came be your office yesterday and you were not there. He goes I was working remote. I go must be nice to wear pajamas all day. I have to watch myself. But loving my best life. Will be short lived. Next CEO might ride me like a rented mule.

But hey I can always flip to multi jobs. Pay my boy in Pakistan to do it. Or chill and grill if canned with a severance package, sign on bonus, and annual bonus in 2023 already paid me who cares.

I do want to hit one or two more over the top offsite plus my corporate card, my corporate phone, my admin, my capachino machine, my catered lunches do I really have to go back to basement and give up my staff?

Remote staff sucks. I had full remote staff team in my J2 and it sucked. Needy people but not butt kissing. Not like today when a staff made a good cake last night and brought me a slice,

Real men don’t work remote. And if they do they J1, J2 and J3.

This is either an amazing parody, or the post that tipped me into finally accepting J1, J2, J3 guy is definitely a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people pretending they are working every second in the office are full of it. They are wasting just as much time on long lunches and water cooler talk.

True. There is a fair amount of messing around in office. But I would argue that building relationships among coworkers is slightly more valuable to the organization than making soup and playing with candles in between carpool runs.

But I would also say there is absolutely zero value to coming into an empty office, which is what is happening in my office. We are supposed to be in three days a week. I have gone entire months being the only one in my office except operations staff, because RTI isn’t actually enforced.

Not going to lie. I kind of love it when the office is empty. I just get so much more work done on days like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

Hopefully, your job doesn't involve a whole lot of fifth grade math. (Or writing, or knowing the difference between less and fewer, but one thing at a time.)

That poster is the infamous 4-jobs troll.

Yep, how's it going J1, J2, J3 guy?

I have you know I am all J1 now in the office 100 percent on time. I am becoming a bit intolerable. I got the job big corner office, executive parking spot, my own admin, LTIP, Exec Bonus, Sign on Bonus, but I reported to CEO and damn office right next to CEO. I don’t like that much closeness, lucky for me CEO had a stroke. Literally. My authorities are high now with him gone. I going full The Office meets Wolf of Wall Street meets Scarface. I got no CEO up my butt and the Board for now loves me!!

For fun today at a meeting I asked Controller how was your vacation day. He goes what? I go I came be your office yesterday and you were not there. He goes I was working remote. I go must be nice to wear pajamas all day. I have to watch myself. But loving my best life. Will be short lived. Next CEO might ride me like a rented mule.

But hey I can always flip to multi jobs. Pay my boy in Pakistan to do it. Or chill and grill if canned with a severance package, sign on bonus, and annual bonus in 2023 already paid me who cares.

I do want to hit one or two more over the top offsite plus my corporate card, my corporate phone, my admin, my capachino machine, my catered lunches do I really have to go back to basement and give up my staff?

Remote staff sucks. I had full remote staff team in my J2 and it sucked. Needy people but not butt kissing. Not like today when a staff made a good cake last night and brought me a slice,

Real men don’t work remote. And if they do they J1, J2 and J3.

This is either an amazing parody, or the post that tipped me into finally accepting J1, J2, J3 guy is definitely a troll.

This was a considerably higher quality post than typical from J1, J2, J3 guy. Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

So if you had a disabled colleague who worked from home most of the time because that is how she best was able to manage her disability, you'd freeze her out? Wow.

Before Covid my office was in person 5 days, we had one blind woman with a seeing eye dog and a number of features on her computer that allowed her to do her job seamlessly, another guy in a wheelchair who had no need for any accommodations beyond a higher desk. Now we have a number of people who have developed anxiety over being together and it is significantly more difficult to accommodate them than it was their physically disabled peers. Our physically disabled colleagues continue to be fully capable of working in an office and seem fine with being there.

It is a proven fact that remote work has led to big increases in employment of disabled workers. Studies have proven it. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/jobs...demic-high-rcna93084

Your anecdote about your disabled co-workers is just that - an anecdote. And it's really patronizing of you to speak for them to say they are "just fine" with being there. Maybe they are. Maybe they'd really prefer to have at least some days remote because it would be easier on them, but they just don't share that with you. You really have no clue what it's like to live in a physically disabled body, what it's like to navigate the metro system or the bus or a bumpy sidewalk when you are mobility challenged, what it's like when you have colitis or a colostomy bag to have to use the office bathroom that is far down the hallway, rather than your own private bathroom right next to your office, like it is in your home, what it's like to need to take off a prosthetic that is irritating your stump, but you don't want to do it in your open office where people will stare, what it's like to not have a couch to lie down on to work on when you have severe vertigo that comes and goes, what it's like to fear having a seizure in front of co-workers, and so many other ways it can be fatiguing and irritating to have to go into an office environment when you have physical disabilities. People with disabilities often don't share these sorts of intimate details of their reality with non-disabled people.

So yes, remote work has been great for many workers with disabilities, whose employment rates are still dismally lower than the non/not-yet-disabled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what can truly help working parents is a 6 hr day on-site and then ability to log in for 2 hrs from home. This can curtail so much anxiety around pick ups, getting dinner on the table etc.

My kids were 9 when COVID hit and they are 13 now, DH and I both WFH for last 4 yrs and we have zero stress levels in terms of pickups, dinner etc. I do go in 1-2 days/week but I have the option to go in for 5-6 hrs and then resume work when I reach home.

IMO not needing to spend 8hrs+commute time is a game changer.

I don't know about this, my manager is willing to give that flexibility (which I appreciate! He's really trying!), but if you have a very long commute it doesn't make up for the fact that the 3 hours round trip you lose comes from somewhere. Either you can't pick up kids, or you make up work when you're home together in the evening, or you don't sleep.

Long commutes are just really hard, and no, some of us can't move closer for family/dual career/financial reasons (it's not that we've "prioritized a McMansion in the exurbs" or whatever the DCUM straw man is). It was so great to live without them, or at least minimize them for a while.

If they want me in the office that badly, the 3 hours is coming out of the time they pay me for, not my time.

Why some people here are so happy to be urging others to roll over and give back the single largest quality of life upgrade people who would otherwise be commuters have ever known is beyond me. It’s a form of compensation and I am not giving it back.

So if your employer said you needed to be back in your office to keep your job would you just quit?

That is literally what I did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

These are not good analogies. Nothing is lost by using a cell phone instead of a pay phone or a plane instead of a ship.

A lot is lost when humans don't interact together face to face. No your Teams chat and zoom are not even remotely the same thing. I understand some of you don't care and don't want to ever interact with humans at work. But it's not unreasonable that your employer is not okay with the tradeoffs and losses.

No, it's not unreasonable. But financially, it doesn't make sense. Workers who have no need to interact face to face with customers or colleagues do not need to work in the office. Commuting is exhausting and costs a lot of money. All that energy and money spent commuting can be spent working. Companies will save a lot of money by cutting back on the spaces they rent or own when most of their workers are working from home most of the time. I don't need to see my colleagues every day in person. Once a week or even once a month is fine. I talk to them every day -- what is gained by sitting next to them all day or running into them in the hall or the bathroom? Most of us are more productive at home, even the extroverts. Ask them -- nearly everyone prefers to work from home if they can. And nearly everyone is more productive at home. Lazy people are lazy wherever they work, but good workers work harder and faster when they don't have to commute to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, find a new job. Also, I don’t have any sympathy for you because I’ve been in-office full time through the pandemic. Would I like to work from home? Yes. Does my job allow me to do that? No. So my options are find a new career or suck it up and deal. If you’d like it op, find a new line of work.

I hate these kinds of responses. We get it, you’re jealous you had to work from the office even though your job doesn’t necessitate that.

I go in the office voluntarily 4 days a week, it’s not a requirement. I think my team works better in person together. I’m not jealous of anyone sitting at home making soup during the day but I do judge them for leaving to pick up their kids in the middle of the day while the rest of us are working together. Zero sympathy.

What does your team think? I'll bet most of them prefer to work from home most of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

^Political pressure to revitalize the economies of cities. Tremendous pressure to get workers back into offices to spend money on transit, food etc.

This.
Biden has been under enormous pressure to put the federal workforce back in the office because so many small businesses that depend on federal workers have lost so much business with everyone working from home. Offices are empty, restaurants are empty, all those small places you run errands on during your lunch hour are suffering, etc.
To me, this is a band-aid solution. And it's futile.
All those small businesses will have to adjust -- move their businesses elsewhere, or change their business model. Because remote work is here to stay, and yes, the downtowns will in time be ghost towns, and most of those businesses that depend on office workers will close. The owners of office buildings will have to adjust too as their buildings empty out.
Perhaps some of those office buildings can be converted to apartments to help solve the housing shortage? Or they can just be torn down and replaced by green space. Because most of us who once worked in an office are never coming back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We spent 3 hours yesterday afternoon trying to finish a repoort that usually takes minutes. Trading messages and waiting on replies that would have been easy conversation had we all been together. Someone had connectivity issues and couldn’t access it remotely. Another person was AWOL (I know she’s home without childcare for her multiple kids and I have to guess they command attention at that time of day) and held everything up until she got on and added her part. Luckily we’re all in the office most days and that’s when we’re most productive.

+1

Plus, why on earth are they getting paid for full time, when they only work a fraction of that time, between kids and pick ups and appointments, and walks, and household chores? It is not fair to the rest of the organization or work force, who are forced into the office 8 hours, five days a week.

Also, some people do not have family to offer free help on the regular - but they make it work to keep their job.

The same obnoxious poster posts over and over again about the lazy workers who do nothing at home.
Do you not chat with colleagues while at work? Do you not make personal phone calls? Do you not run errands? Do you not waste time making coffee or walking around the office looking for stuff? Most of us are so unproductive for part of every single day. Offices smell funny, they have terrible lighting, uncomfortable chairs (I like to work sitting in my bed, like Edith Wharton). I get so much more work done at home. And if you can't monitor productivity remotely, you need to move at least into the 20th century technologically, never mind the 21st.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like mental illness, OP.
Get some control of your anxiety before it takes over your life.

Yeah. Lighting candles next to your desk is a telltale sign

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

These are not good analogies. Nothing is lost by using a cell phone instead of a pay phone or a plane instead of a ship.

A lot is lost when humans don't interact together face to face. No your Teams chat and zoom are not even remotely the same thing. I understand some of you don't care and don't want to ever interact with humans at work. But it's not unreasonable that your employer is not okay with the tradeoffs and losses.

No, it's not unreasonable. But financially, it doesn't make sense. Workers who have no need to interact face to face with customers or colleagues do not need to work in the office. Commuting is exhausting and costs a lot of money. All that energy and money spent commuting can be spent working. Companies will save a lot of money by cutting back on the spaces they rent or own when most of their workers are working from home most of the time. I don't need to see my colleagues every day in person. Once a week or even once a month is fine. I talk to them every day -- what is gained by sitting next to them all day or running into them in the hall or the bathroom? Most of us are more productive at home, even the extroverts. Ask them -- nearly everyone prefers to work from home if they can. And nearly everyone is more productive at home. Lazy people are lazy wherever they work, but good workers work harder and faster when they don't have to commute to work.

This is why remote work will win. Office buildings are incredibly expensive. We now have technology that doesn’t require office buildings for many workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since COVID, I have worked from home and it's been wonderful. I'm super productive - and also cozy at home. I am a huge introvert and I savor not having to "face" the world. And, a lot of my work is independent anyway. I wear my soft pants, I light a candle next to my desk, I can dash out to pick up my kids, I have soup simmering ... and I get a TON DONE.

We go back in person next week and I feel legit sick to my stomach. I wake up at 4am sweaty and panicked. The commute sucks. The rows of cubicles blow. The entire vibe is just...not home. I hate it and it's making me feel ill. Like the work but hate office culture. I don't know what to do.

The bolded, plus laundry, a quick trip to grocery store, etc, are exactly why so many companies are requiring RTO.

Mind, they must be dashing. Dashing to get the kids gets it done in half the time. Wearing soft pants and carrying a candle can also help.

[Anonymous]

People just want to get paid as much as possible for as little work as possible. Nothing new there.