Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.

-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K

Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.

CC path is not that viable if you want engineering/CS. 2 years at CC would be half wasted---you'd have your Gen Eds and maybe the first year of Calc. Where I live the CC is not as rigorous as the first year of classes at StateU so you might get at most 1 year towards your Eng Degree. Therefore, starting at a 4 year would be more useful. Have the kid go to State school/private with some merit so it's only 40-50K/year. But if you make $400K+/year, you should at a minimum help your kid attend that without debt (or at most the $27Kmax over 4 years). yes the kid can work a summer job and during breaks and earn $10K towards college and their spending in college. But why would you saddle them with more debt or make them take 6-8 years to get their degree while working?

Not prudent

Is this a new thing?

I know engineers who earn 300k and upwards who went to CC for two years and a 4 year university for two years. All their credits transferred.

In my college days (14 years ago) Montgomery community College in Maryland had a lot of transfers to University of Maryland who didn't lose any credits.

Exactly.

I transferred into pre-med at UMD with credits from CC. I did my labs at CC just fine before and during my time at UMD; I took summer classes as well. Everything transferred. I have no idea when or where some of these posters went to college but at least in Maryland there is a very good path between the CCs and the public universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the premise here?

Does OP want some kind of prize for deciding to live an incredibly mid life? There are no prizes for that.

I actually think OP had good intentions.
This site can be ridiculous at times with all the pissing contests to demonstrate wealth.

What I'm getting out of this is that you don't have to put $20k a year away in a 529 or even $10k.
You don't have to have the kids in some elite summer camp or live in a multi-million dollar mansion.
Of course, you can, they're all personal choices but don't feel bad if you can't, your kids will be fine.
It's actually one of the more normal posts I've seen and of course all of the big spenders are triggered and telling OP that their children will hate them when they grow up lol

One of the biggest and best things that OP is doing is letting the kids stay home.
So many can't wait until their kid is 18 to ship them off to college or simply kick them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.

-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K

Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.

CC path is not that viable if you want engineering/CS. 2 years at CC would be half wasted---you'd have your Gen Eds and maybe the first year of Calc. Where I live the CC is not as rigorous as the first year of classes at StateU so you might get at most 1 year towards your Eng Degree. Therefore, starting at a 4 year would be more useful. Have the kid go to State school/private with some merit so it's only 40-50K/year. But if you make $400K+/year, you should at a minimum help your kid attend that without debt (or at most the $27Kmax over 4 years). yes the kid can work a summer job and during breaks and earn $10K towards college and their spending in college. But why would you saddle them with more debt or make them take 6-8 years to get their degree while working?

Not prudent

My kids went the CC path and then Virginia Tech. Graduated at the top of their class at VT. Maybe they were smart kids.
I guess if your kids aren't that smart, maybe you should avoid that path.

Hope your kids have more tact than you.

Also my kids are not taking CC path—we have saved and they can/are attending $80k schools at full pay and we will pay grad school.



It can be done if you have good Cc where classes are rigorous—not all are. Just pointing out that for many stem areas, more than 2 years at the 4 year are needed. If the 2 year cal sequence is not equivalent to the 2 years at state u, you will struggle at cc and may need to still take more calc at 4 year svhool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.

-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K

Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.

CC path is not that viable if you want engineering/CS. 2 years at CC would be half wasted---you'd have your Gen Eds and maybe the first year of Calc. Where I live the CC is not as rigorous as the first year of classes at StateU so you might get at most 1 year towards your Eng Degree. Therefore, starting at a 4 year would be more useful. Have the kid go to State school/private with some merit so it's only 40-50K/year. But if you make $400K+/year, you should at a minimum help your kid attend that without debt (or at most the $27Kmax over 4 years). yes the kid can work a summer job and during breaks and earn $10K towards college and their spending in college. But why would you saddle them with more debt or make them take 6-8 years to get their degree while working?

Not prudent

Is this a new thing?

I know engineers who earn 300k and upwards who went to CC for two years and a 4 year university for two years. All their credits transferred.

In my college days (14 years ago) Montgomery community College in Maryland had a lot of transfers to University of Maryland who didn't lose any credits.

Exactly.

I transferred into pre-med at UMD with credits from CC. I did my labs at CC just fine before and during my time at UMD; I took summer classes as well. Everything transferred. I have no idea when or where some of these posters went to college but at least in Maryland there is a very good path between the CCs and the public universities.

Yep.

There were even some full tuition scholarships for transfer students from Montgomery Community College to UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids will have to use your income on their FAFSA. They will not get enough aid. They will be forced to take out private loans.

I had 70k in debt in 1999 because my parents did what you did. The average student debt loan was $16,000 total for all four years then. I had to take out private loans from Chase bank at 9% interest. I had to work 3 jobs in my 20s to pay it off. It ruined my career prospects (could not consider professional school...I had to survive) and I literally had no fun or joy in my college years or from 18-32. I paid it off around age 32. It destroyed my young adulthood and changed my life trajectory than it would have been otherwise.

I have barely spoken to my parents since. I am mid 40s now. They intentionally started my life in a hole. Their income was used against me.

College costs are too high for you to do this to your kids. They won't get aid with your income.

You really need a reality check. I would never, ever do this to my kids. Never.

Stop blaming your parents for your own failure. Take responsibility for your failure. Nobody owns you anything even your parents. Be an adult and own your life. In your mid 40s and you are blaming your parents for shortcomings? This is pathetic.

I was an international student and didn’t qualify for any help. I had to take student loans.
I wasn’t even allowed to work. I did what I could to survive, working illegally at times.
Today I have a job in tech making $400k, all student loans are paid off. Spouse is making $300k. We have a high net worth. Life is good. I’m not sitting here blaming my parents.
In fact, I think that the struggle I went through helped me become stronger. It didn’t ruin my life like it did yours because I wasn’t an entitled child.
Grow up. Take control of your life and stop blaming your parents.

If you were an international student, then your parents paid for college and you were a full pay student so your experience is completely irrelevant because you did not have massive student loan debt, holding you back from making career decisions, and forcing you to work jobs you may not have worked otherwise because you had to pay back those loans before you actually started your life. You can shut up.

PP here. Learn to read. Did you even read the post?
My parents didn't paid for college. I took international student loans to pay for my education. I had student loans debt when I graduated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see no issue with OPs plans.

Community college for the first 2 years of college is actually pretty smart. Lower level classes don't need to be completed at a premium. The classes are usually smaller too so if they're kid is ambitious it's almost like 1 on 1 tutoring as they won't be competing for the teacher's attention with 500 other kids.

They'll probably have a 4.0 GPA for both years and then can transfer into a state school with Merit scholarship money since a lot of the state schools have an agreement with the local CCs.

Not a bad plan at all and $2-3k per year with the kids living at home ought to do it with no concerns.

+1000000
You nailed it.

[Anonymous]

What I'm getting out of this is that you don't have to put $20k a year away in a 529 or even $10k.
You don't have to have the kids in some elite summer camp or live in a multi-million dollar mansion.
Of course, you can, they're all personal choices but don't feel bad if you can't, your kids will be fine.

I don't think the poster disagreeing with OP think anyone should feel bad if they can't save for college. What they believe is that if you CAN save for college, thus, giving your kids more options, you SHOULD. There's a big difference.

People who agree with OP think that the only point of a college education is to get a better job. To them it's purely vocation training. If that's your attitude, then the CC path may well be a good plan. But some of us think college is about more than that. I attended an elite college after attending a mediocre public high school. That year was an amazing experience and a lot of what made it wonderful happened outside the classroom.

I took a CC course about 10 years ago. (I took it because I was getting a master's degree in a different field and didn't feel equipped to take some of the courses without learning some basic skills. So I audited a CC course.)

There were middle-aged immigrants in my CC class who were terrific people. But most of the younger people in my CC class were lousy students and most--though not all--had utterly unrealistic plans for their careers. (The 2 exceptions were immigrants. One admitted he had done no work in high school and barely graduated. When he ended up in a back breaking job, he went to CC at night, but had to start in the remedial classes. He turned it around.) They cut class. They didn't do half the assignments. They would talk when the prof was trying to teach, etc.

The two kids who were good students admitted that they found the going hard. This wasn't because the work was hard for them--it wasn't. It was because they felt isolated.

The CC I attended has articulation agreements with some decent 4 year schools. But only a minority of the kids who start at a CC graduate from a 4 year school. And, I'd guess that a lot of those are the non-traditional students.

I give a lot of credit to the kids who go to CC and then succeed at 4 year colleges. But I'm not going to tell you that I think the experience at a CC is the same as that at a 4 year college, especially if you live on campus and take advantage of a lot of things that are offered. The 2 kids in my class who were good students certainly weren't having an experience remotely like mine a lot of years earlier or like that of my adult child more recently.

If you can't afford to give your kid the option of the better experience, that's fine. But if you can and won't, well...to me that's different. It's possible though--maybe even probable--that the kids OP is raising may be smart but view college solely as vocational training. But some of us think that if that's the way they feel, they're missing out on a lot. They'll have the same piece of paper at the end, but they won't have had the same experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What I'm getting out of this is that you don't have to put $20k a year away in a 529 or even $10k.
You don't have to have the kids in some elite summer camp or live in a multi-million dollar mansion.
Of course, you can, they're all personal choices but don't feel bad if you can't, your kids will be fine.

I don't think the poster disagreeing with OP think anyone should feel bad if they can't save for college. What they believe is that if you CAN save for college, thus, giving your kids more options, you SHOULD. There's a big difference.

People who agree with OP think that the only point of a college education is to get a better job. To them it's purely vocation training. If that's your attitude, then the CC path may well be a good plan. But some of us think college is about more than that. I attended an elite college after attending a mediocre public high school. That year was an amazing experience and a lot of what made it wonderful happened outside the classroom.

I took a CC course about 10 years ago. (I took it because I was getting a master's degree in a different field and didn't feel equipped to take some of the courses without learning some basic skills. So I audited a CC course.)

There were middle-aged immigrants in my CC class who were terrific people. But most of the younger people in my CC class were lousy students and most--though not all--had utterly unrealistic plans for their careers. (The 2 exceptions were immigrants. One admitted he had done no work in high school and barely graduated. When he ended up in a back breaking job, he went to CC at night, but had to start in the remedial classes. He turned it around.) They cut class. They didn't do half the assignments. They would talk when the prof was trying to teach, etc.

The two kids who were good students admitted that they found the going hard. This wasn't because the work was hard for them--it wasn't. It was because they felt isolated.

The CC I attended has articulation agreements with some decent 4 year schools. But only a minority of the kids who start at a CC graduate from a 4 year school. And, I'd guess that a lot of those are the non-traditional students.

I give a lot of credit to the kids who go to CC and then succeed at 4 year colleges. But I'm not going to tell you that I think the experience at a CC is the same as that at a 4 year college, especially if you live on campus and take advantage of a lot of things that are offered. The 2 kids in my class who were good students certainly weren't having an experience remotely like mine a lot of years earlier or like that of my adult child more recently.

If you can't afford to give your kid the option of the better experience, that's fine. But if you can and won't, well...to me that's different. It's possible though--maybe even probable--that the kids OP is raising may be smart but view college solely as vocational training. But some of us think that if that's the way they feel, they're missing out on a lot. They'll have the same piece of paper at the end, but they won't have had the same experience.

Yea I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier... A lot of failure to launch young people are in CC. If your kid doesn't get that 4.0 in CC then they are essentially stuck with a STEM CC degree and few options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What I'm getting out of this is that you don't have to put $20k a year away in a 529 or even $10k.
You don't have to have the kids in some elite summer camp or live in a multi-million dollar mansion.
Of course, you can, they're all personal choices but don't feel bad if you can't, your kids will be fine.

I don't think the poster disagreeing with OP think anyone should feel bad if they can't save for college. What they believe is that if you CAN save for college, thus, giving your kids more options, you SHOULD. There's a big difference.

People who agree with OP think that the only point of a college education is to get a better job. To them it's purely vocation training. If that's your attitude, then the CC path may well be a good plan. But some of us think college is about more than that. I attended an elite college after attending a mediocre public high school. That year was an amazing experience and a lot of what made it wonderful happened outside the classroom.

I took a CC course about 10 years ago. (I took it because I was getting a master's degree in a different field and didn't feel equipped to take some of the courses without learning some basic skills. So I audited a CC course.)

There were middle-aged immigrants in my CC class who were terrific people. But most of the younger people in my CC class were lousy students and most--though not all--had utterly unrealistic plans for their careers. (The 2 exceptions were immigrants. One admitted he had done no work in high school and barely graduated. When he ended up in a back breaking job, he went to CC at night, but had to start in the remedial classes. He turned it around.) They cut class. They didn't do half the assignments. They would talk when the prof was trying to teach, etc.

The two kids who were good students admitted that they found the going hard. This wasn't because the work was hard for them--it wasn't. It was because they felt isolated.

The CC I attended has articulation agreements with some decent 4 year schools. But only a minority of the kids who start at a CC graduate from a 4 year school. And, I'd guess that a lot of those are the non-traditional students.

I give a lot of credit to the kids who go to CC and then succeed at 4 year colleges. But I'm not going to tell you that I think the experience at a CC is the same as that at a 4 year college, especially if you live on campus and take advantage of a lot of things that are offered. The 2 kids in my class who were good students certainly weren't having an experience remotely like mine a lot of years earlier or like that of my adult child more recently.

If you can't afford to give your kid the option of the better experience, that's fine. But if you can and won't, well...to me that's different. It's possible though--maybe even probable--that the kids OP is raising may be smart but view college solely as vocational training. But some of us think that if that's the way they feel, they're missing out on a lot. They'll have the same piece of paper at the end, but they won't have had the same experience.

Yea I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier... A lot of failure to launch young people are in CC. If your kid doesn't get that 4.0 in CC then they are essentially stuck with a STEM CC degree and few options.

This is false.

CCs around here are perfectly fine. And many students do well after they have left. A lot of failure to launch kids are at CCs, but most of these students are not taking the STEM classes.

Kids go to CCs for different reasons. There are those who go because they could not get in anywhere else.

And there are those who go because it's cheaper and closer to home. These kids meet kids in a similar position and they do just as well as they would have if they went straight to 4 year colleges.

CCs don't just dump all entrying students in similar classes. There are assessments tests to determine college readiness, and students get placed in their classes accordingly. A student who barely graduated high school is not taking the same Math class with a good student. The weaker student would be placed in a lower level Math class until they are ready to take the next class

If your kid is not bright and thinking of majoring in basket weaving, then a CC is not for them if you can afford a 4 year college. You'd be counting on networking or marrying someone smarter to get them through life, so you should go with the best school you can afford.

A bright engineering student or accounting student or pre med student would do just as well in a CC as they would in a 4 year college.
And there are former CC students who get 99 percentiles on their LSATs and get into top law schools.

I wouldn't send my kid to a CC if I can afford the 4 year they want to attend. However, it's ridiculous to suggest that the sane student would not perform as well in the CC as they would in a 4 year college. They will, and they do perform just as well when they transfer to 4 year colleges.

[Anonymous]

Why you would send your kid to a crappy CC on a 400k HHI instead of giving them the full college experience is crazy to me.

PP above is correct. The academic peers are totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no issue with OPs plans.

Community college for the first 2 years of college is actually pretty smart. Lower level classes don't need to be completed at a premium. The classes are usually smaller too so if they're kid is ambitious it's almost like 1 on 1 tutoring as they won't be competing for the teacher's attention with 500 other kids.

They'll probably have a 4.0 GPA for both years and then can transfer into a state school with Merit scholarship money since a lot of the state schools have an agreement with the local CCs.

Not a bad plan at all and $2-3k per year with the kids living at home ought to do it with no concerns.

No 18-20 year old wants to live in their childhood bedroom. I’d first have run away from home before considering doing that when I was that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why you would send your kid to a crappy CC on a 400k HHI instead of giving them the full college experience is crazy to me.

PP above is correct. The academic peers are totally different.

Would that college experience include underage drinking, hazing, and partying? What else is there? Oh there is living in shitty dorms and sharing bathrooms with filthy roommates.

Not every kid is looking forward to that.

You send them to "great" schools to hang out with other children whose parents could afford to send their children to "great" schools. There is a lot of value in that, no doubt.

Otherwise, a good student is a good student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why you would send your kid to a crappy CC on a 400k HHI instead of giving them the full college experience is crazy to me.

PP above is correct. The academic peers are totally different.

Would that college experience include underage drinking, hazing, and partying? What else is there? Oh there is living in shitty dorms and sharing bathrooms with filthy roommates.

Not every kid is looking forward to that.

You send them to "great" schools to hang out with other children whose parents could afford to send their children to "great" schools. There is a lot of value in that, no doubt.

Otherwise, a good student is a good student.

A ton. Internships (many companies won’t hire interns who go to cc), Greek life, club sports, living independently, learning to deal with roommates, getting away from your helicopter parents, late night adventures…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why you would send your kid to a crappy CC on a 400k HHI instead of giving them the full college experience is crazy to me.

PP above is correct. The academic peers are totally different.

Would that college experience include underage drinking, hazing, and partying? What else is there? Oh there is living in shitty dorms and sharing bathrooms with filthy roommates.

Not every kid is looking forward to that.

You send them to "great" schools to hang out with other children whose parents could afford to send their children to "great" schools. There is a lot of value in that, no doubt.

Otherwise, a good student is a good student.

A ton. Internships (many companies won’t hire interns who go to cc), Greek life, club sports, living independently, learning to deal with roommates, getting away from your helicopter parents, late night adventures…

Many companies will hire interns who went to CC. My kids went to CC and had no problems getting internships and jobs at top fortune 500 companies. But I have to admit, not every kid will be successful taking that path. Only the smart kids will succeed. If your kids aren't smart enough, take a different path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why you would send your kid to a crappy CC on a 400k HHI instead of giving them the full college experience is crazy to me.

PP above is correct. The academic peers are totally different.

Would that college experience include underage drinking, hazing, and partying? What else is there? Oh there is living in shitty dorms and sharing bathrooms with filthy roommates.

Not every kid is looking forward to that.

You send them to "great" schools to hang out with other children whose parents could afford to send their children to "great" schools. There is a lot of value in that, no doubt.

Otherwise, a good student is a good student.

A ton. Internships (many companies won’t hire interns who go to cc), Greek life, club sports, living independently, learning to deal with roommates, getting away from your helicopter parents, late night adventures…

Many companies will hire interns who went to CC. My kids went to CC and had no problems getting internships and jobs at top fortune 500 companies. But I have to admit, not every kid will be successful taking that path. Only the smart kids will succeed. If your kids aren't smart enough, take a different path.

This is the most aggressive helicopter/participation trophy parenting I have ever encountered. Did you write their fortune 500 cover letters for them while they were at home too?