Explain to me the financial risk of SAH if partner is a high earner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the entire thread...did anybody say anything about the potential power you sacrifice when you are financially dependent on your husband? And the tendency of some high earning men to begin to devalue their non earning wives? They may come to resent the pressure they perceive in being the sole provider, even if they chose it. You can become an easy target in the hard times . Even if consciously supporting it, they may lose respect for you. Not all, but some. You also may lose some respect for yourself. You don't have to match his exorbitant income. But working often offers a sense of its own empowerment that may make you accept less bs from him, if he is prone to that, you know what I mean? It gives you a different marriage dynamic, often more of a partnership. I think it gives you more power.. But you may feel you get that without working.

This sounds like you trying to justify your decision. If your spouse resents you, you need to get rid of that spouse. People will find a reason to resent you and blame you if that is their personality.

I personally think it’s pathetic that so many women on here are working out of fear and have bought the story that if not, their husband will resent them. Meanwhile they dealt with pregnancy and childbirth but aren’t resentful their husband didn’t share that burden. Then so many people on here are miserable and they can’t figure out why. I can’t imagine having an opinion of my marriage like PP and thinking my JOB really plays that big of a role in my marriage. And yes I work.

I am a PP and work because I want to AND because I understand intrinsically how a power imbalance can fester in a working man/SAHW dynamic.

I was married to a sole earner and moved to Europe to support his career (he had an opportunity there). We had a toddler, then had a baby there. When I was very early into my second pregnancy I learned that he was cheating. I have never felt more trapped, more powerless. I had no work visa, no real means of supporting myself or getting a career job. It was absolutely devastating.

I had to rebuild my life from the ground up. I came back to the US and was on food stamps/cash assistance. I experienced firsthand the humiliation and intractable stress of poverty - with small kids, no less. My former spouse fully exploited his financial advantage from the day I left, including throughout the divorce process. I am not exaggerating when I say it almost killed me.

I was able to gain new skills and now am in a comfortable career. I am also remarried to a man who makes significantly more money than I do. I would never put myself in a position to be so vulnerable and dependent again. Unless a woman is independently wealthy or has parents who are (and are unequivocally willing to support her if things go south in a marriage) I would NEVER advise anyone to not work. There are just far too many variables in life and generally, he with the most money wins.

So you’re working out of fear. Best solution is to not have kids in case your husband cheats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the entire thread...did anybody say anything about the potential power you sacrifice when you are financially dependent on your husband? And the tendency of some high earning men to begin to devalue their non earning wives? They may come to resent the pressure they perceive in being the sole provider, even if they chose it. You can become an easy target in the hard times . Even if consciously supporting it, they may lose respect for you. Not all, but some. You also may lose some respect for yourself. You don't have to match his exorbitant income. But working often offers a sense of its own empowerment that may make you accept less bs from him, if he is prone to that, you know what I mean? It gives you a different marriage dynamic, often more of a partnership. I think it gives you more power.. But you may feel you get that without working.

This sounds like you trying to justify your decision. If your spouse resents you, you need to get rid of that spouse. People will find a reason to resent you and blame you if that is their personality.

I personally think it’s pathetic that so many women on here are working out of fear and have bought the story that if not, their husband will resent them. Meanwhile they dealt with pregnancy and childbirth but aren’t resentful their husband didn’t share that burden. Then so many people on here are miserable and they can’t figure out why. I can’t imagine having an opinion of my marriage like PP and thinking my JOB really plays that big of a role in my marriage. And yes I work.

I am a PP and work because I want to AND because I understand intrinsically how a power imbalance can fester in a working man/SAHW dynamic.

I was married to a sole earner and moved to Europe to support his career (he had an opportunity there). We had a toddler, then had a baby there. When I was very early into my second pregnancy I learned that he was cheating. I have never felt more trapped, more powerless. I had no work visa, no real means of supporting myself or getting a career job. It was absolutely devastating.

I had to rebuild my life from the ground up. I came back to the US and was on food stamps/cash assistance. I experienced firsthand the humiliation and intractable stress of poverty - with small kids, no less. My former spouse fully exploited his financial advantage from the day I left, including throughout the divorce process. I am not exaggerating when I say it almost killed me.

I was able to gain new skills and now am in a comfortable career. I am also remarried to a man who makes significantly more money than I do. I would never put myself in a position to be so vulnerable and dependent again. Unless a woman is independently wealthy or has parents who are (and are unequivocally willing to support her if things go south in a marriage) I would NEVER advise anyone to not work. There are just far too many variables in life and generally, he with the most money wins.

So you’re working out of fear. Best solution is to not have kids in case your husband cheats.

No she works for her own self respect and security which only depends on her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the entire thread...did anybody say anything about the potential power you sacrifice when you are financially dependent on your husband? And the tendency of some high earning men to begin to devalue their non earning wives? They may come to resent the pressure they perceive in being the sole provider, even if they chose it. You can become an easy target in the hard times . Even if consciously supporting it, they may lose respect for you. Not all, but some. You also may lose some respect for yourself. You don't have to match his exorbitant income. But working often offers a sense of its own empowerment that may make you accept less bs from him, if he is prone to that, you know what I mean? It gives you a different marriage dynamic, often more of a partnership. I think it gives you more power.. But you may feel you get that without working.

This sounds like you trying to justify your decision. If your spouse resents you, you need to get rid of that spouse. People will find a reason to resent you and blame you if that is their personality.

I personally think it’s pathetic that so many women on here are working out of fear and have bought the story that if not, their husband will resent them. Meanwhile they dealt with pregnancy and childbirth but aren’t resentful their husband didn’t share that burden. Then so many people on here are miserable and they can’t figure out why. I can’t imagine having an opinion of my marriage like PP and thinking my JOB really plays that big of a role in my marriage. And yes I work.

I am a PP and work because I want to AND because I understand intrinsically how a power imbalance can fester in a working man/SAHW dynamic.

I was married to a sole earner and moved to Europe to support his career (he had an opportunity there). We had a toddler, then had a baby there. When I was very early into my second pregnancy I learned that he was cheating. I have never felt more trapped, more powerless. I had no work visa, no real means of supporting myself or getting a career job. It was absolutely devastating.

I had to rebuild my life from the ground up. I came back to the US and was on food stamps/cash assistance. I experienced firsthand the humiliation and intractable stress of poverty - with small kids, no less. My former spouse fully exploited his financial advantage from the day I left, including throughout the divorce process. I am not exaggerating when I say it almost killed me.

I was able to gain new skills and now am in a comfortable career. I am also remarried to a man who makes significantly more money than I do. I would never put myself in a position to be so vulnerable and dependent again. Unless a woman is independently wealthy or has parents who are (and are unequivocally willing to support her if things go south in a marriage) I would NEVER advise anyone to not work. There are just far too many variables in life and generally, he with the most money wins.

So you’re working out of fear. Best solution is to not have kids in case your husband cheats.

I’m really not. I like making money, I like my career, AND I recognize that working is empowering (to me).

This is like saying to someone who works so that they can afford life’s necessities - like shelter and food - that they are working out of fear of homelessness/starvation.

Very weird perspective and accusation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM and was plunged into poverty immediately upon separation. Didn’t get retirement, didn’t get alimony, nothing. Don’t be me. Nothing is guaranteed.

Why not retirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the entire thread...did anybody say anything about the potential power you sacrifice when you are financially dependent on your husband? And the tendency of some high earning men to begin to devalue their non earning wives? They may come to resent the pressure they perceive in being the sole provider, even if they chose it. You can become an easy target in the hard times . Even if consciously supporting it, they may lose respect for you. Not all, but some. You also may lose some respect for yourself. You don't have to match his exorbitant income. But working often offers a sense of its own empowerment that may make you accept less bs from him, if he is prone to that, you know what I mean? It gives you a different marriage dynamic, often more of a partnership. I think it gives you more power.. But you may feel you get that without working.

This sounds like you trying to justify your decision. If your spouse resents you, you need to get rid of that spouse. People will find a reason to resent you and blame you if that is their personality.

I personally think it’s pathetic that so many women on here are working out of fear and have bought the story that if not, their husband will resent them. Meanwhile they dealt with pregnancy and childbirth but aren’t resentful their husband didn’t share that burden. Then so many people on here are miserable and they can’t figure out why. I can’t imagine having an opinion of my marriage like PP and thinking my JOB really plays that big of a role in my marriage. And yes I work.

I am a PP and work because I want to AND because I understand intrinsically how a power imbalance can fester in a working man/SAHW dynamic.

I was married to a sole earner and moved to Europe to support his career (he had an opportunity there). We had a toddler, then had a baby there. When I was very early into my second pregnancy I learned that he was cheating. I have never felt more trapped, more powerless. I had no work visa, no real means of supporting myself or getting a career job. It was absolutely devastating.

I had to rebuild my life from the ground up. I came back to the US and was on food stamps/cash assistance. I experienced firsthand the humiliation and intractable stress of poverty - with small kids, no less. My former spouse fully exploited his financial advantage from the day I left, including throughout the divorce process. I am not exaggerating when I say it almost killed me.

I was able to gain new skills and now am in a comfortable career. I am also remarried to a man who makes significantly more money than I do. I would never put myself in a position to be so vulnerable and dependent again. Unless a woman is independently wealthy or has parents who are (and are unequivocally willing to support her if things go south in a marriage) I would NEVER advise anyone to not work. There are just far too many variables in life and generally, he with the most money wins.

So you’re working out of fear. Best solution is to not have kids in case your husband cheats.

Are you saying that every woman who stays home shouldn’t have kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM and was plunged into poverty immediately upon separation. Didn’t get retirement, didn’t get alimony, nothing. Don’t be me. Nothing is guaranteed.

Why not retirement?

Are you stupid ? They weren’t married long enough but even if they were, it’s very easy to get a lump sum for 401k and waste it during divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist and I seen more than a few married and divorced men in my practice. They can often know intellectually their wives have a difficult job as a sahm, they love them, they love their kids, they know their spouses are good mothers. They feel proud, too, of themselves, that they can provide.

But they can also simultaneously resent the burden of being the sole breadwinner. Almost all have a keen sense of what they believe are their wives imitations at home, what she doesn't do well. They keep tabs on it, in their mind. When they are frustrated they are prone to honing in on those things. If a child acts out, or has behavioral issues, since you are with them more, expect him to think you are part of the issue. Unconsciously or consciously, he may see most aspects of raising the children as your job, especially at that income level. It can wear over time and many of them (again, there may be a selection bias at play) are conflicted. Appreciative but potentially pissy as well. Not exactly a clinical term but you know what I mean.

Uh, why wouldn't a husband expect his SAHW to be responsible for the good vs bad outcomes of staying home? Isn't that how SAHWs convince their DH's that they should stay home? Because they'll keep a better home life than all those haggard working moms? So yeah, if I'm working 60 hours a week and I come home to a home life that's the same or worse than my colleagues' with working wives, then I think I have a right to be resentful.

[Anonymous]

This post has reinforced why I still work despite DH making $1m+ most years. To me, taking a less demanding but still professional job has been a good compromise as I still have some time for family. It is nice to have stayed off partner track at my firm and more or less coast for many years at 40 hours a week, most of which I work from home. I think I could ramp up, build a bigger client base and become partner in the course of a few years at any point. Really glad I never quit. It's allowed me to fund my own 401k, brokerage account and 529 accounts that I control. Sure, they're marital property, but I control them in the event of death or divorce, and to me, that is huge. I also have enough income to support myself if anything goes wrong. I definitely could not afford our current lifestyle, but downsizing to a cozier house and giving up some memberships wouldn't have a big impact on my quality of life. My advice to OP and others is to create a career that works for this life stage rather than abandon it entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post has reinforced why I still work despite DH making $1m+ most years. To me, taking a less demanding but still professional job has been a good compromise as I still have some time for family. It is nice to have stayed off partner track at my firm and more or less coast for many years at 40 hours a week, most of which I work from home. I think I could ramp up, build a bigger client base and become partner in the course of a few years at any point. Really glad I never quit. It's allowed me to fund my own 401k, brokerage account and 529 accounts that I control. Sure, they're marital property, but I control them in the event of death or divorce, and to me, that is huge. I also have enough income to support myself if anything goes wrong. I definitely could not afford our current lifestyle, but downsizing to a cozier house and giving up some memberships wouldn't have a big impact on my quality of life. My advice to OP and others is to create a career that works for this life stage rather than abandon it entirely.

If the wife doesnt' work, the only way of replicating what you are doing is to control joint real estate. But husbands also understand that and no everyone would be eager to build a portfolio of joint rentals vs having his own brokerage account/offshore entity which wive checks regularly but which is controlled by him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post has reinforced why I still work despite DH making $1m+ most years. To me, taking a less demanding but still professional job has been a good compromise as I still have some time for family. It is nice to have stayed off partner track at my firm and more or less coast for many years at 40 hours a week, most of which I work from home. I think I could ramp up, build a bigger client base and become partner in the course of a few years at any point. Really glad I never quit. It's allowed me to fund my own 401k, brokerage account and 529 accounts that I control. Sure, they're marital property, but I control them in the event of death or divorce, and to me, that is huge. I also have enough income to support myself if anything goes wrong. I definitely could not afford our current lifestyle, but downsizing to a cozier house and giving up some memberships wouldn't have a big impact on my quality of life. My advice to OP and others is to create a career that works for this life stage rather than abandon it entirely.

I agree with that: my exH was making 600K, joint family income 900k. But as you don't spend this whole million on helicopter pads or exuberant travel, the lifestyle of a single woman making 300K is not much different from the lifestyle of a law partner wife. I can wear less brand shoes, and live in a nice TH vs a mansion. But I still have a nice life, housekeeper, several vacations/year because my expenses as single person are way lower.

I think women need to have income that's sufficient to be on their own at their comfort level, if they end up single

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A point that is missing from the discussion is that those of more modest means likely do not have the assets for a prolonged battle in family court. Wealthy men do, have often done quite a bit of pre-planning and hiding assets and many may be high powered attorneys themselves.

Working gives women a means of supporting themselves and their children if need be. What can seem like a lot of money and a "solid" marriage can all vanish quickly. You may be shocked and taken by surprise. A spouse that is "at the office" or travelling and away from the family much of hte time can become progressively disengaged, disenchanted and ripe for an affair and I had no idea.

Ime, to shift guilt from a workplace affair, I became an object of contempt/scorn and custody schedules and delaying tactics were used to break me down emotionally and financially so that I accepted far less in a settlement than I had ever imagined. Someone I had thought of as of good character and protective of our child with mild SN went scorched earth and did not provide funds to continue beneficial therapies, for example. I had not worked in several years, had an out of date network and was hard pressed to pay a comparable lawyer as every delaying tactic in the book was used.

I do think the gulf got greater as ex stopped seeing me as a peer, which I had been when we met. When a midlife crisis hit, I was just a drudge, not exciting and a go getter. Any foothold in the working world and the financial independence and networks that come with it help maintain certain balances. I never thought it could happen to me and my kids but assets can be hidden very easily and without a lot of money for forensic accountants, they cannot be recovered. Orders are often not enforced re: things like insurance beneficiaries. You can be left struggling to provide basics for your kids during your custody time which made my kids scared and angry at the disparity from their former life and their other home. It is increasingly difficult to get a foothold back in the working world in midlife.

Best to all in this situation.

That sounds terrible, and I hate that you went through it, especially to care for a kid with SNs. I am so sorry.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post has reinforced why I still work despite DH making $1m+ most years. To me, taking a less demanding but still professional job has been a good compromise as I still have some time for family. It is nice to have stayed off partner track at my firm and more or less coast for many years at 40 hours a week, most of which I work from home. I think I could ramp up, build a bigger client base and become partner in the course of a few years at any point. Really glad I never quit. It's allowed me to fund my own 401k, brokerage account and 529 accounts that I control. Sure, they're marital property, but I control them in the event of death or divorce, and to me, that is huge. I also have enough income to support myself if anything goes wrong. I definitely could not afford our current lifestyle, but downsizing to a cozier house and giving up some memberships wouldn't have a big impact on my quality of life. My advice to OP and others is to create a career that works for this life stage rather than abandon it entirely.

Some times for family? You make your family sound like a hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist and I seen more than a few married and divorced men in my practice. They can often know intellectually their wives have a difficult job as a sahm, they love them, they love their kids, they know their spouses are good mothers. They feel proud, too, of themselves, that they can provide.

But they can also simultaneously resent the burden of being the sole breadwinner. Almost all have a keen sense of what they believe are their wives imitations at home, what she doesn't do well. They keep tabs on it, in their mind. When they are frustrated they are prone to honing in on those things. If a child acts out, or has behavioral issues, since you are with them more, expect him to think you are part of the issue. Unconsciously or consciously, he may see most aspects of raising the children as your job, especially at that income level. It can wear over time and many of them (again, there may be a selection bias at play) are conflicted. Appreciative but potentially pissy as well. Not exactly a clinical term but you know what I mean.

I’m a SAHM and this tracks in my marriage. We planned from the time we were engaged for me to SAH, and DH has never so much and hinted that he wants me to get a job to share in the breadwinning burden. But there has never been this total acceptance of the way I do “my” job. He has questioned and criticized everything from my parenting philosophy to the way I load the dishwasher. I know that I am a good parent and a mediocre housekeeper but sometimes his criticism makes me feel like I’m a mediocre parent and the worst housekeeper ever. I think that now that the kids are older and we have a better sense of why our kids struggled and can see in hindsight that the way I approached parenting was absolutely die the best (the child he thought I wasn’t firm enough with turned out to be autistic), and he is more understanding about my housekeeping skills. But except for my very part-time job, I never have any work that isn’t subject to his scrutiny. He has gotten a lot more understanding, but I still hate it. I think people who are highly successful sometimes have no patience for people who don’t things as well, and that attribute of DH has caused a lot of friction. Therapy has helped a lot.

But on the other hand, I don’t know that working while raising a special needs child would have been better. I really think that DC’s emotional health would have been much worse had she not benefited from daily, patient, contentious parenting. Yeah a nanny could have done it but it would be hard to guarantee that level of quality care.

Honestly sometimes feel like the best option is just not having kids.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Lots of good comments, thank you.

While I think the point about a power differential is a good one, what is overlooked is that the differential can exist even if I continue working. There is no man making 2M+ who cares about his wife’s 100K job FOR THE MONEY. He might respect her drive and her accomplishments (as my DH does) but if he saw it as “his” money vs “mine” (he does not and very much regards it as “ours”) the power difference would still be there FOR SURE. An income of 100k, especially after taxes, is basically nothing relative to 2M+.

Also to those who say it’s better to “earn equally and contribute equally”: I used to feel the same way, and not that long ago (when we first got married) we DID earn pretty equally. But now we don’t. Am I supposed to wish he didn't make so much money? Or is he actually supposed to change career paths to be on the same lower footing as I am? None of that would make sense to me (and I cannot imagine a man asking a woman to make less money so they remained equal!!)

There is definitely nothing as secure as remaining employed. But it is feeling as if the risk can be mitigated with some smart decision making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM and was plunged into poverty immediately upon separation. Didn’t get retirement, didn’t get alimony, nothing. Don’t be me. Nothing is guaranteed.

Why not retirement?

Are you stupid ? They weren’t married long enough but even if they were, it’s very easy to get a lump sum for 401k and waste it during divorce

It’s an asset that grew during the marriage, no?

Wouldn’t it be split?