S/O Can we talk about how bad Lin-Manuel Miranda's music is?

[Anonymous]

I feel like a lot of people who say Encanto/Bruno are "boring" or "not memorable" and compare them negatively to other Disney musicals just haven't listened enough. It does actually take a few listens to start liking a song! This is true for basically all songs, they need to grow on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, it appears that for many: no, you absolutely canNOT talk about disliking LMM’s music, feeling like it all sounds the same or is overly shouty, and you certainly cannot discuss being annoyed by his public persona or finding him cringe. Someone who has known him since he was 5* will come and tell you that your natural reaction is incorrect.

Even in a thread that was created for people to discuss disliking LMM, you are not allowed to talk about disliking LMM. We Don’t Talk About [not liking] Bruno-no-no.

*I do not believe this person knows LMM, I think it’s one of his many obsessive fan girls defending him using extensive, and creepy, knowledge of his biography. This is not how people actually talk about childhood friends who they know well. All people are more complex than what gets presented in a public image and anyone who has known LMM a long time would have a more nuanced take than “OMG he’s always been the sweetest, he loves his wife so much, these are the names of his teachers at his performing arts high school, he will never be me tooed.” Even if those things are true! That’s just… not real.

I am the PP and I'm sorry you don't believe me, but that's fine. Lin isn't a good childhood friend of mine or someone I know very well, and I didn't mean to present it as such. He's a friendly acquaintance who I went to school with for 12 years -- during which we sang in a couple of choruses together -- and have crossed paths with consistently in the years since, because we have one good mutual friend (as do his wife and I; I was in the year between them in school). We also didn't go to a performing arts HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of people who say Encanto/Bruno are "boring" or "not memorable" and compare them negatively to other Disney musicals just haven't listened enough. It does actually take a few listens to start liking a song! This is true for basically all songs, they need to grow on you.

Yes, the hallmark of a truly wonderful song is that you have to keep listening to it to convince yourself it's good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of people who say Encanto/Bruno are "boring" or "not memorable" and compare them negatively to other Disney musicals just haven't listened enough. It does actually take a few listens to start liking a song! This is true for basically all songs, they need to grow on you.

Yes, the hallmark of a truly wonderful song is that you have to keep listening to it to convince yourself it's good.

No, doofus, the hallmark of a wonderful song is that you keep discovering new nuances in it after hearing it many times.

If you didn't like it well enough to listen to it more than once, fine, move on with your life, no one cares. But if you're curious as to what other people enjoy in it, try listening to it a few more times and you might uncover something that brings you some pleasure.

[Anonymous]

And the Beatles, too. Their music is just terrible. Mozart is totally derivative. Can't believe folks still listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it appears that for many: no, you absolutely canNOT talk about disliking LMM’s music, feeling like it all sounds the same or is overly shouty, and you certainly cannot discuss being annoyed by his public persona or finding him cringe. Someone who has known him since he was 5* will come and tell you that your natural reaction is incorrect.

Even in a thread that was created for people to discuss disliking LMM, you are not allowed to talk about disliking LMM. We Don’t Talk About [not liking] Bruno-no-no.

*I do not believe this person knows LMM, I think it’s one of his many obsessive fan girls defending him using extensive, and creepy, knowledge of his biography. This is not how people actually talk about childhood friends who they know well. All people are more complex than what gets presented in a public image and anyone who has known LMM a long time would have a more nuanced take than “OMG he’s always been the sweetest, he loves his wife so much, these are the names of his teachers at his performing arts high school, he will never be me tooed.” Even if those things are true! That’s just… not real.

I am the PP and I'm sorry you don't believe me, but that's fine. Lin isn't a good childhood friend of mine or someone I know very well, and I didn't mean to present it as such. He's a friendly acquaintance who I went to school with for 12 years -- during which we sang in a couple of choruses together -- and have crossed paths with consistently in the years since, because we have one good mutual friend (as do his wife and I; I was in the year between them in school). We also didn't go to a performing arts HS.

Then you can't possibly know if his public persona is real or not. Either you know him very well and can vouch for him or you're an acquaintance and can't. You are telling people they aren't allowed to say they find his public persona fake because you find it genuine. But that's not how it works. You buy his schtick, some people don't. The fact that you've crossed paths with him in life does not actually give you much insight. I've crossed paths with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama numerous times over the last two decades. I would never claim to know whether their public face was a true one or not. As a general rule, having met a lot of famous people, I assume virtually all of them are putting up a front. I personally find LMM's front more grating than most (the lip biting just drives me up the wall, and he has some very affected speech patterns that irritate me).

It's fine that people like him. Some people don't. This thread was started to find those people. I'm one of them! I find it extra annoying that it's filled with people telling us that our (biased! subjective!) opinions are incorrect because they don't align with theirs. Which reminds me: one of the things that grates on me about LMM is how his adult fans are like children -- they can't bear to hear a negative word said about him. It's exhausting. And you don't have to have been an acquaintance of someone "since I was 5" to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it appears that for many: no, you absolutely canNOT talk about disliking LMM’s music, feeling like it all sounds the same or is overly shouty, and you certainly cannot discuss being annoyed by his public persona or finding him cringe. Someone who has known him since he was 5* will come and tell you that your natural reaction is incorrect.

Even in a thread that was created for people to discuss disliking LMM, you are not allowed to talk about disliking LMM. We Don’t Talk About [not liking] Bruno-no-no.

*I do not believe this person knows LMM, I think it’s one of his many obsessive fan girls defending him using extensive, and creepy, knowledge of his biography. This is not how people actually talk about childhood friends who they know well. All people are more complex than what gets presented in a public image and anyone who has known LMM a long time would have a more nuanced take than “OMG he’s always been the sweetest, he loves his wife so much, these are the names of his teachers at his performing arts high school, he will never be me tooed.” Even if those things are true! That’s just… not real.

I am the PP and I'm sorry you don't believe me, but that's fine. Lin isn't a good childhood friend of mine or someone I know very well, and I didn't mean to present it as such. He's a friendly acquaintance who I went to school with for 12 years -- during which we sang in a couple of choruses together -- and have crossed paths with consistently in the years since, because we have one good mutual friend (as do his wife and I; I was in the year between them in school). We also didn't go to a performing arts HS.

Then you can't possibly know if his public persona is real or not. Either you know him very well and can vouch for him or you're an acquaintance and can't. You are telling people they aren't allowed to say they find his public persona fake because you find it genuine. But that's not how it works. You buy his schtick, some people don't. The fact that you've crossed paths with him in life does not actually give you much insight. I've crossed paths with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama numerous times over the last two decades. I would never claim to know whether their public face was a true one or not. As a general rule, having met a lot of famous people, I assume virtually all of them are putting up a front. I personally find LMM's front more grating than most (the lip biting just drives me up the wall, and he has some very affected speech patterns that irritate me).

It's fine that people like him. Some people don't. This thread was started to find those people. I'm one of them! I find it extra annoying that it's filled with people telling us that our (biased! subjective!) opinions are incorrect because they don't align with theirs. Which reminds me: one of the things that grates on me about LMM is how his adult fans are like children -- they can't bear to hear a negative word said about him. It's exhausting. And you don't have to have been an acquaintance of someone "since I was 5" to see that.

Again, not the PP to whom you're responding, so not the person who knows him, but:

Why expend all this effort, with return posts over and over, on someone you do not like and whose work you do not enjoy? Asking seriously. Of course you can vent. Please don't say I'm trying to stop you from your venting. But you are begging the questions:

What entertainment figures do you actually admire and why? Can you tell us this without comparison to Miranda?

Whose songs or other works do you enjoy and recommend? Preferably telling us this based on the works' own merits, without having to compare them to Miranda's or anyone else's to establish your preferences as "better" or others' as "worse."

Your own, as you put it above, "biased! subjective!" opinions, are fine. Including the opinion that you dislike a public person or that person's creative work. But you are very invested in arguing with those who like Miranda and his work, when you surely see you won't change any minds, so it's arguing for arguing's sake. Unless you personally deal with a raving Miranda fan in your real life--being so invested in disliking both him and his fans seems like a big waste of your energy.

The world is full of negativity. What is your positive take on something else for people to enjoy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your own, as you put it above, "biased! subjective!" opinions, are fine. Including the opinion that you dislike a public person or that person's creative work. But you are very invested in arguing with those who like Miranda and his work, when you surely see you won't change any minds, so it's arguing for arguing's sake. Unless you personally deal with a raving Miranda fan in your real life--being so invested in disliking both him and his fans seems like a big waste of your energy.

The world is full of negativity. What is your positive take on something else for people to enjoy?

DP. But isn't that DCUM's bread and butter?

[Anonymous]

Every single song sounds the exact same. Every song in every movie, musical etc sounds the same. I think he just changes the pitch and the words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it appears that for many: no, you absolutely canNOT talk about disliking LMM’s music, feeling like it all sounds the same or is overly shouty, and you certainly cannot discuss being annoyed by his public persona or finding him cringe. Someone who has known him since he was 5* will come and tell you that your natural reaction is incorrect.

Even in a thread that was created for people to discuss disliking LMM, you are not allowed to talk about disliking LMM. We Don’t Talk About [not liking] Bruno-no-no.

*I do not believe this person knows LMM, I think it’s one of his many obsessive fan girls defending him using extensive, and creepy, knowledge of his biography. This is not how people actually talk about childhood friends who they know well. All people are more complex than what gets presented in a public image and anyone who has known LMM a long time would have a more nuanced take than “OMG he’s always been the sweetest, he loves his wife so much, these are the names of his teachers at his performing arts high school, he will never be me tooed.” Even if those things are true! That’s just… not real.

I am the PP and I'm sorry you don't believe me, but that's fine. Lin isn't a good childhood friend of mine or someone I know very well, and I didn't mean to present it as such. He's a friendly acquaintance who I went to school with for 12 years -- during which we sang in a couple of choruses together -- and have crossed paths with consistently in the years since, because we have one good mutual friend (as do his wife and I; I was in the year between them in school). We also didn't go to a performing arts HS.

Then you can't possibly know if his public persona is real or not. Either you know him very well and can vouch for him or you're an acquaintance and can't. You are telling people they aren't allowed to say they find his public persona fake because you find it genuine. But that's not how it works. You buy his schtick, some people don't. The fact that you've crossed paths with him in life does not actually give you much insight. I've crossed paths with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama numerous times over the last two decades. I would never claim to know whether their public face was a true one or not. As a general rule, having met a lot of famous people, I assume virtually all of them are putting up a front. I personally find LMM's front more grating than most (the lip biting just drives me up the wall, and he has some very affected speech patterns that irritate me).

It's fine that people like him. Some people don't. This thread was started to find those people. I'm one of them! I find it extra annoying that it's filled with people telling us that our (biased! subjective!) opinions are incorrect because they don't align with theirs. Which reminds me: one of the things that grates on me about LMM is how his adult fans are like children -- they can't bear to hear a negative word said about him. It's exhausting. And you don't have to have been an acquaintance of someone "since I was 5" to see that.

Yes, going to school with someone for 12 years from age 5 gives someone absolutely no insight into whether his current public persona is real or not. Give me a break. That is clearly not the same thing as "met a famous person once they were famous." Saying that LMM has always been like he currently seems is obviously relevant insight re: whether that personality is fake. It's pretty unlikely LMM adopted a fake very nice personality at age 6 in case he got famous. In any case, PP didn't say you can't find him grating... or not like his personality... PP said that personality wasn't fake. Very unclear why you're trying to pick a fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your own, as you put it above, "biased! subjective!" opinions, are fine. Including the opinion that you dislike a public person or that person's creative work. But you are very invested in arguing with those who like Miranda and his work, when you surely see you won't change any minds, so it's arguing for arguing's sake. Unless you personally deal with a raving Miranda fan in your real life--being so invested in disliking both him and his fans seems like a big waste of your energy.

The world is full of negativity. What is your positive take on something else for people to enjoy?

DP. But isn't that DCUM's bread and butter?

Yes. But I'm challenging that very invested PP to add some positive and constructive input instead of just bashing. Strangely invested in the bashing.

In fact some PPs here are as intense about hating this total stranger as his fans are about loving him.

I don't think the PPs can recognize that they're the flip side of the same fandom coin, though.

[Anonymous]

This thread, lord.

OP: I don’t like LMM’s music. Anyone else?
LMM Stans: YOU ARE AN IDIOT. HE IS A GENIUS. I REJECT PREMISE OF THREAD.
Some Posters: Oh, it’s not my thing either. Agree, don’t get the hype.
LMM Stans: THOU ART A TRAMP. THE GENTLEMAN IS A PHENOM. I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL!!!!

Just delightful. Shine on, you crazy ass diamonds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread, lord.

OP: I don’t like LMM’s music. Anyone else?
LMM Stans: YOU ARE AN IDIOT. HE IS A GENIUS. I REJECT PREMISE OF THREAD.
Some Posters: Oh, it’s not my thing either. Agree, don’t get the hype.
LMM Stans: THOU ART A TRAMP. THE GENTLEMAN IS A PHENOM. I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL!!!!

Just delightful. Shine on, you crazy ass diamonds.

That’s not actually how OP opened this up. They opened it up with “can we talk about how bad Lin Manuel Miranda’s music is?”

Had they started out at you say they likely wouldn’t have had nearly so many responses! OP was trolling for drama

[Anonymous]

Imagine having such a hate boner for an artist that you actively seek out opportunities to discuss how much you hate that artist, rather than… listening to something else.

I don’t understand people.

[Anonymous]

I will tell you what my mom once told me when I was a kid and made fun of the actors on Barney. She said - they’re laughing all the way to the bank