Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

I know attorneys who received great performance reviews for years, but after they were reassigned to toxic judges, they were bullied out of their jobs. Whether an attorney succeeds at the Board or not is largely dependent on the personality of his or her judge.

That’s terrible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

I know attorneys who received great performance reviews for years, but after they were reassigned to toxic judges, they were bullied out of their jobs. Whether an attorney succeeds at the Board or not is largely dependent on the personality of his or her judge.

If these toxic judges have 6-8 attorneys in their group, how do the others manage to survive? Or do toxic judges bleed out attorneys annually? Any anecdotes about the turnover with some judges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

I know attorneys who received great performance reviews for years, but after they were reassigned to toxic judges, they were bullied out of their jobs. Whether an attorney succeeds at the Board or not is largely dependent on the personality of his or her judge.

This is 100% true. I have seen some people who have made exceptional with one judge get pushed out by their next judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

I know attorneys who received great performance reviews for years, but after they were reassigned to toxic judges, they were bullied out of their jobs. Whether an attorney succeeds at the Board or not is largely dependent on the personality of his or her judge.

If these toxic judges have 6-8 attorneys in their group, how do the others manage to survive? Or do toxic judges bleed out attorneys annually? Any anecdotes about the turnover with some judges?

basically when there is a bad judge everyone is miserable. They may barely make quota, or some may not, but wither way they hate it and want to leave the instant they can.

[Anonymous]

I had to write for a certain judge once and she made me do two rewrites then got frustrated and wrote it herself after sitting on it for three months. I did exactly what she asked me to do. Thankfully she’s not my regular judge. I’ve been at the Board many years and know what I’m doing so it’s doubtful it was a poorly drafted decision. I know one person on her team who said she loves her writing. So my guess is that some judges just have a certain style they like and will tear down anyone who doesn’t write that way. They eventually find someone that meshes with them and live happily ever after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had to write for a certain judge once and she made me do two rewrites then got frustrated and wrote it herself after sitting on it for three months. I did exactly what she asked me to do. Thankfully she’s not my regular judge. I’ve been at the Board many years and know what I’m doing so it’s doubtful it was a poorly drafted decision. I know one person on her team who said she loves her writing. So my guess is that some judges just have a certain style they like and will tear down anyone who doesn’t write that way. They eventually find someone that meshes with them and live happily ever after.

Not surprising.

The best most experienced judges don’t have a certain style they want. They’ve been here a long time and have seen hundreds of attorneys come and go and they realize that as long as the decision is veteran friendly and legally correct the other stuff doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Before the Board went remote, there were a couple of judges who were known for throwing objects at attorneys, screaming at them, and slamming their hands on their desks in anger. Remote work prevented a lot of the outbursts. If we RTO full time, I fear for the safety and mental health of the attorneys assigned to toxic judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the Board went remote, there were a couple of judges who were known for throwing objects at attorneys, screaming at them, and slamming their hands on their desks in anger. Remote work prevented a lot of the outbursts. If we RTO full time, I fear for the safety and mental health of the attorneys assigned to toxic judges.

I heard these rumors and I wasn't sure whether to believe them until I heard a judge screaming at an attorney in their office. This judge is still employed as far as I know.

[Anonymous]

How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

If management likes the attorney, and the attorney generally has a good reputation with other judges, management will usually reassign the attorney to a different judge.

However, if the attorney doesn’t have an established reputation and/or seems to be complaining about the judge, management will keep the attorney with the toxic judge and will allow the judge to bully the attorney until the attorney gives up and resigns.

Bullying by judges can involve throwing objects at attorneys and screaming at them. However, the most common type of bullying is setting disfavored attorneys up for failure and relentlessly criticizing their work until they quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

If management likes the attorney, and the attorney generally has a good reputation with other judges, management will usually reassign the attorney to a different judge.

However, if the attorney doesn’t have an established reputation and/or seems to be complaining about the judge, management will keep the attorney with the toxic judge and will allow the judge to bully the attorney until the attorney gives up and resigns.

Bullying by judges can involve throwing objects at attorneys and screaming at them. However, the most common type of bullying is setting disfavored attorneys up for failure and relentlessly criticizing their work until they quit.

this is precisely how it goes. getting mgmt. to move you because you and your judge don't gel is a difficult thing. it happens but it is not common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

Quickest way to get off your writing team is to apply for details. They also take attorneys from existing teams when a new judge gets appointed. I wrote for a difficult judge and they moved an average of one person per year from that team. I also know of a judge that had about half of the team reassigned within months after the whole team complained, don’t remember if there were official grievances. It’s not easy but you have options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

There are occasions when attorneys and VLJs stay on the same team for several years. I know of some who have been with the same VLJ 6-8 years but its more common to be moved around (involuntarily) when there is a new VLJ promoted, or if an attorney applies for a detail, or just in a general shuffle that management decides is best. At the end of the day you don't really get a choice. You go where they tell you to go, or you can quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

There are occasions when attorneys and VLJs stay on the same team for several years. I know of some who have been with the same VLJ 6-8 years but its more common to be moved around (involuntarily) when there is a new VLJ promoted, or if an attorney applies for a detail, or just in a general shuffle that management decides is best. At the end of the day you don't really get a choice. You go where they tell you to go, or you can quit.

I love the periodic reminders from management about how lucky we are to have an attorney job at the Board. Management seems to think that without the Board, we would be either be unemployed or doing doc review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often are drafting attorneys re-assigned to new VLJs? If somebody isn't quitting, and the VLJ isn't retiring, do they just stay together until somebody leaves?

There are occasions when attorneys and VLJs stay on the same team for several years. I know of some who have been with the same VLJ 6-8 years but its more common to be moved around (involuntarily) when there is a new VLJ promoted, or if an attorney applies for a detail, or just in a general shuffle that management decides is best. At the end of the day you don't really get a choice. You go where they tell you to go, or you can quit.

I love the periodic reminders from management about how lucky we are to have an attorney job at the Board. Management seems to think that without the Board, we would be either be unemployed or doing doc review.

That's how they manage. Intimidation, half truths and mental abuse.