Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

I’m a 2024 probationary cohort and haven’t heard of a single probationary attorney being fired and I know a few who are barely meeting FS (and some weeks not at all yet). Believe me, that news would spread like wild fire if it were happening. I do know many who have quit through the year and some who attempted to take Fork.

[Anonymous]

I hope that the probationary attorneys will be successful. It is not a new things for the Board to terminate probationary employees. Some get terminated for not making the goals; others get terminated because their decisions require substantial revisions..

The logic of terminating probationary attorneys is if they do not understand the work they are given in the first year, they will not be able to keep up when assigned cases with a higher number of issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

probationary employees are covered by the CBA so I doubt these terminations are legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

The 4/4/25 date is not a thing anymore. That was resolved weeks ago.

I haven't heard of any probationary employees being terminated prior to their "retention determination" around the 11 month mark. People leaving on their own? Sure.

Where is this information coming from? I have heard multiple Judges who are saying that the April mid term deadline is still a hard and fast rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

probationary employees are covered by the CBA so I doubt these terminations are legal.

Probationary employees frequently are fired for not making their production goal. This has been the case for many years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

probationary employees are covered by the CBA so I doubt these terminations are legal.

Probationary employees frequently are fired for not making their production goal. This has been the case for many years.

+1

BVA fires employees early on and quickly around the 10-11 month mark from date of onboarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

probationary employees are covered by the CBA so I doubt these terminations are legal.

Probationary employees frequently are fired for not making their production goal. This has been the case for many years.

I am well aware of that but I’m not sure if those firings are legal in light of the arbitrator’s recent ruling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are AAs designated as essential? Where does OAO and OAS fall in terms of the BVA? Are they separate from AAs? Probie here and still trying to figure out the ropes. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransAffairs/comments/1j49ls2/reorgrif_memo/

The leaked memo re: VA cuts

I think BVA is relatively safe based on the 2019 contingency plan.

Past emails re: potential shutdowns indicate that BVA's OAO and OAS employees are designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations. But that seems like a lot of people that would be exempt from RIFs.

AAs are generally expected to continue to work. The BVA is pre-funded and not impacted by a shutdown like most of the rest of the government.

As far as probationary status goes, good luck. They're evaluating probationary employees based on the DOC prior to your actual eval date, and prior to the 4/4/25 deadline, and terminating probationary employees based on present numbers. In short, BVA is doing to probationary employees what BVA did to non-probationary employees not too long ago.

By that I mean, BVA previously placed AAs on PIPs and took adverse actions against them for being behind on the DOC mid-cycle. The result was missed incentive payments, missed step increases, etc. The union took the situation to arbitration and prevailed, and BVA had to pay back-pay and remove adverse actions from employees' records because it violated the CBA. No similar protections protect probationary employees.

In other words, don't ever get behind on the DOC. BVA hired 200 new attorneys just before Trump. These are the 20% lowest producing attorneys at the Board, and with the pressure to shrink VA overall, the probationary employees have a big target on their back, and the new DVCs and secretary are seeing low hanging fruit with the probationary AAs.

Sounds like you’re spouting generalizations or speculation. We are only pre-funded at this point for 7 days, so get up to speed. And what’s your source on probationary employees? Plenty of GS14s who don’t stay green from week to week and then catch up. Haven’t heard of any of them getting fired.

Of course GS-14 aren't fired for that. They can't be disciplined for it either. AFGE Local 17 already fought and won that challenge in arbitration. However, there's nothing stopping BVA from looking at probationary employees prior to the end of their probationary period and finding them unfit for being behind. And, that's what BVA is doing. Probationary employees are being termed for being behind prior to their anniversary and prior to 4/4/25. I'm not sure how many decisions behind they're allowed to be at any given time, but probationary employees ARE being terminated for being behind before their anniversary date and (obviously before 4/4/25).

probationary employees are covered by the CBA so I doubt these terminations are legal.

Probationary employees frequently are fired for not making their production goal. This has been the case for many years.

I am well aware of that but I’m not sure if those firings are legal in light of the arbitrator’s recent ruling.

Which ruling and which firings? Probationary people being warned about production and being fired has been done for years.

Are you saying that Probationary employees have a right to a PIP? If they cannot make the weekly goal with the simple cases they are not going to pass a PIP.

The union apparently has a grievance about the April 5 deadline to assess mid-year production. There has not been a decision as far as I know.

[Anonymous]

So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

[Anonymous]

The union apparently has a grievance about the April 5 deadline to assess mid-year production. There has not been a decision as far as I know.

To my knowledge, the arbitration is moot b/c the April 5 deadline to assess mid-year production was withdrawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the union can’t do anything to help probationary employees then? That’s unfortunate.

Most of the people I knew of over the years who were “fired” were actually bullied into quitting because management told them that if they were fired from the Board they would never get another federal job.

That’s true. The Board rarely fires attorneys. Disfavored attorneys have their worked nitpicked and criticized until they give up and quit.

The do fire attorneys who fail on a PIP.

To clarify, the Board does fire people. However, the Board would much rather bully someone into resigning. Most of the time, the attorney gets the hint and resigns.

No attorney should resign if they can do the work and pass a PIP.

I know attorneys who received great performance reviews for years, but after they were reassigned to toxic judges, they were bullied out of their jobs. Whether an attorney succeeds at the Board or not is largely dependent on the personality of his or her judge.