What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t know that it was simultaneous. If the wife went ahead to get help but collapsed the husband wouldn’t. Know. He may have been sitting there for a while.

They could have split up further back with the wife looking for help and the husband was trying to alternate resting and moving forward. My guess is that husband was trying to carry the dog in his arms and baby in the carrier.

All within a few minutes of each other is pretty much simultaneous. And wouldn't either of them who saw the other collapsing tried to use the cell phone? You people just come up with wacky scenarios when its more likely they were victims of something toxic that got them all at once or it's a murder/suicide.

You seem incapable of absorbing information. This has been discussed many times but you remain oblivious to any change to educate yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ that doesn't sound like heatstroke.

Would you call extreme temperatures hazardous?

No. I would say a heat advisory would be appropriate wording if that is the message. Very misleading to suggest the hazard is heat IMO.

[Anonymous]

I think buying a sugar free or gluten free so it if no celiac or diabetes absolutely does characterize a person! But I digress. DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I may be the lone dissenter, but I still think it was something weird and unusual like CO or toxic gas or algae. I just find it hard to believe that all of them, including the dog, would have succumbed to heat stroke, presumably around the same time. They still had water in their Camelbak and were only 1.5 miles from their car. If things were that bad, wouldn't they have drank all the water and/or poured water over their heads or splashed their faces?

d

You're not a lone dissenter. This same exact opinion has been expressed about 100x already on this thread.

Also expressed 100x: that it was FA. That is was easily heat exhaustion.

Less common opinions: Aliens. Boulders.

+1. I actually could have bought heatstroke, no matter how unlikely, but not with water left in the pack. No way the family doesn't drink/use that to try to cool down if that's the problem.

They had a 1.5 mile uphill climb. They conserved. However, delirium sets in and you do stupid things.

How did a toxic cloud instantly kill all four at the same time and move the mother up the trail?

She was only 15-20 ft away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

This is an EXCELLENT guideline.

Wish DCUM braintrust would follow that instead of actively finding ways to disparage the victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I may be the lone dissenter, but I still think it was something weird and unusual like CO or toxic gas or algae. I just find it hard to believe that all of them, including the dog, would have succumbed to heat stroke, presumably around the same time. They still had water in their Camelbak and were only 1.5 miles from their car. If things were that bad, wouldn't they have drank all the water and/or poured water over their heads or splashed their faces?

d

You're not a lone dissenter. This same exact opinion has been expressed about 100x already on this thread.

Also expressed 100x: that it was FA. That is was easily heat exhaustion.

Less common opinions: Aliens. Boulders.

+1. I actually could have bought heatstroke, no matter how unlikely, but not with water left in the pack. No way the family doesn't drink/use that to try to cool down if that's the problem.

They had a 1.5 mile uphill climb. They conserved. However, delirium sets in and you do stupid things.

How did a toxic cloud instantly kill all four at the same time and move the mother up the trail?

She was only 15-20 ft away.

She was 30 yards away from all reports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

This is an EXCELLENT guideline.

Wish DCUM braintrust would follow that instead of actively finding ways to disparage the victims.

99% of the time the 'victim' posted on Web Sleuth is a missing young woman or wife and mother killed by her husband.

So yeah - victim friendly, perp critical. In this the entire family is dead and they had to be killed by something or someone. So the field of criticism is wide-open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN is reporting that they’re now closing the trail the family was hiking on due to unknown hazards.

A reasonable interpretation of that behavior is that there may not be any hazard present and the behavior is precautionary instead of reactionary.

The family died 3 weeks ago. Precautionary is long out the window. They wouldn't close it this late unless there was something about the trail or environmental factors contributing.

Even Death Valley is open year-round and the average high there is 115F in August.

They get deaths from heat stroke there. Every year. Strange huh?

Yes, they do. And they're still open.

So, it's not unusual to die from heat stroke when it's hot? Do the authorities investigate the possibility of deadly hazardous clouds or do they write it off as another idiot hiking in rhe extreme heat?

It's very common to die of heatstroke when it's very hot.

This case is unusual.

Unusual because 4 living things died at the same time makes some reasons less probable. Such as simultaneous heatstroke.

Nothing will stop you from making this idiotic claim, right? You refuse to educate yourself about heat stroke, dehydration etc. All you care about is that you are right. It makes you feel important that you think you've figured this out. Those of us explaining heat stroke do so because we know it is most likely. I don't see the joy that some posters get in making up all kinds of ridiculous stories. It is disrespectful to the family.

Says someone who has probably thrown out baseless insults about their parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

This is an EXCELLENT guideline.

Wish DCUM braintrust would follow that instead of actively finding ways to disparage the victims.

Sorry, don't agree. If we can't speculate on whether ordering "a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut" is evidence of grandiose ideation, what's the point of being on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I may be the lone dissenter, but I still think it was something weird and unusual like CO or toxic gas or algae. I just find it hard to believe that all of them, including the dog, would have succumbed to heat stroke, presumably around the same time. They still had water in their Camelbak and were only 1.5 miles from their car. If things were that bad, wouldn't they have drank all the water and/or poured water over their heads or splashed their faces?

d

You're not a lone dissenter. This same exact opinion has been expressed about 100x already on this thread.

Also expressed 100x: that it was FA. That is was easily heat exhaustion.

Less common opinions: Aliens. Boulders.

+1. I actually could have bought heatstroke, no matter how unlikely, but not with water left in the pack. No way the family doesn't drink/use that to try to cool down if that's the problem.

They had a 1.5 mile uphill climb. They conserved. However, delirium sets in and you do stupid things.

How did a toxic cloud instantly kill all four at the same time and move the mother up the trail?

She was only 15-20 ft away.

She was 30 yards away from all reports.

Americans have trouble with US customary units AND metric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

I thought the no more donut speculation post was hilarious.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed but with heat exhaustion it can come so suddenly and turn into heatstroke very very fast. Heat exhaustion also causes mental confusion and total lack of rational thinking. People are acting like they were thinking rationally but they may have been completely out of it and things turned south very quickly.

However, I don't know why the medical examiners or police would not be saying it is likely that if they thought it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think buying a sugar free or gluten free so it if no celiac or diabetes absolutely does characterize a person! But I digress. DP

It's very Californian, TBH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting link from the websleuths forum

https://emergency-vets.com/species/dogs/dogs-heat-stroke-stress-summer/

Unlike humans, dogs do not sweat to cool their bodies (except a small amount through the paw pads). Instead, dogs primarily regulate their temperature through their mouth, by panting. This can be very ineffective, however, when the temperature gets over 80 degrees or when a dog is in direct sunlight.

If the temperature is over 90 degrees, do not let your pet outside for more than 10 or 20 minutes.

Was just coming to post this. There is a veterinarian on thread #3 there re this family with some helpful input. Two other things of interest to me from recent posts over there:

The family's house, which was near the Savage/Lundy trailhead, was at 3,500 ft. elevation, where the temperatures we are assuming from the El Portal station were at 2,000 ft elevation. They may have judged the conditions by feel from the cooler temps at their house. Savage/Lundy and Devil's Gulch were probably hotter than both.

The poor moderators on Websleuths are clearly working overtime on this case. While I absolutely respect their "victim friendly" posting rule, I thought this post from them was hysterical, and I'm glad we have a bit more freedom here.

"Again: Websleuths is victim-friendly and speculation has to be fact-based.

No more lifestyle speculation based on donut orders.

Any discussion of obsessions or compulsions has to be based on stronger evidence than someone ordering a gluten-free (or even a sugar-free) donut. Someone buying a donut from a donut store does not mean they consider themselves morally and/or intellectually superior to others, nor does the type of donut purchased constitute evidence of an eating disorder, grandiose ideation or a sense of entitlement.

As we wait for more validated information, please keep the speculation based on the evidence we have so far. Thank you."

This is an EXCELLENT guideline.

Wish DCUM braintrust would follow that instead of actively finding ways to disparage the victims.

99% of the time the 'victim' posted on Web Sleuth is a missing young woman or wife and mother killed by her husband.

So yeah - victim friendly, perp critical. In this the entire family is dead and they had to be killed by something or someone. So the field of criticism is wide-open.

Speculate based on FACTS. Not your random assumptions about what happened.

And certainly don’t disparage them as parents without having actual facts.