The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Should we assume at this point that someone’s head will be cut off?

Boat propellor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should we assume at this point that someone’s head will be cut off?

Boat propellor?

Yes! Maybe that’s why Daphne doesn’t make any effort to save the person. They have no head.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you read closely, my initial point was that Portia and Harper were lumped together as “privileged” when they are on entirely different planes of privilege. Does a nanny exist on the same level of privilege as their employer? No, and I bet the ides of that would be infuriating to a lot of mom bosses.

No but we are still privileged to live in this time. And these people are privileged to live in these countries and have this type of access. I don't think a nanny has the same privilege that their employer has, but depending on the circumstances they could have and objectively pretty decent life. Especially compared to historical comparisons. That doesn't mean they can't have problems or work to fix them or that they can never vent, but Portia is not supposed to just be someone who has problems, she is someone who complains while being inert. And the lack of inertia she displays while doing almost nothing but griping is what highlights just how much she DOES have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you read closely, my initial point was that Portia and Harper were lumped together as “privileged” when they are on entirely different planes of privilege. Does a nanny exist on the same level of privilege as their employer? No, and I bet the ides of that would be infuriating to a lot of mom bosses.

No but we are still privileged to live in this time. And these people are privileged to live in these countries and have this type of access. I don't think a nanny has the same privilege that their employer has, but depending on the circumstances they could have and objectively pretty decent life. Especially compared to historical comparisons. That doesn't mean they can't have problems or work to fix them or that they can never vent, but Portia is not supposed to just be someone who has problems, she is someone who complains while being inert. And the lack of inertia she displays while doing almost nothing but griping is what highlights just how much she DOES have.

Lame take

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you read closely, my initial point was that Portia and Harper were lumped together as “privileged” when they are on entirely different planes of privilege. Does a nanny exist on the same level of privilege as their employer? No, and I bet the ides of that would be infuriating to a lot of mom bosses.

No but we are still privileged to live in this time. And these people are privileged to live in these countries and have this type of access. I don't think a nanny has the same privilege that their employer has, but depending on the circumstances they could have and objectively pretty decent life. Especially compared to historical comparisons. That doesn't mean they can't have problems or work to fix them or that they can never vent, but Portia is not supposed to just be someone who has problems, she is someone who complains while being inert. And the lack of inertia she displays while doing almost nothing but griping is what highlights just how much she DOES have.

Lame take

k thanks

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

Ugh I was so nervous when he went running solo/swimming. That'd kind of be a less satisfying death though? We're expecting a big fight between Harper/Cameron and it's a pure accident on his own?

I mean, it's just a guess! We'll see what happens. My predictions are:
- ethan
- quentin
- jack
-greg

Mine are

- Lucia
- Quentin

I think:
- Nonno
- Greg

I was very worried for Nonno at that crazy house of women!

We haven't talked about that - what was up with that? I have to admit that I thought it was hugely cringey to just drive up to this random house and expect the family to be thrilled to see their very distant relatives that immigrated to the US generations ago. I felt bad for Nonno, but I also thought the whole idea was questionable. Maybe with Lucia to translate, but even then.

She put the Sicilian curse in them. As a Sicilian, I can tell you, they are screwed now.

Nonno got me in that dinner scene, the line about how you always think it’ll be a grand homecoming was well acted and incredibly touching. I do agree that they should’ve planned for that much better. I don’t know why Albie didn’t try to use the translation app when entering the home. I did feel some more sympathy towards his character when he pleaded with Lucia to not go to Alessio too.

I don’t think the translation app would have helped because I don’t think language barrier was the problem. The women were totally underwhelmed by the potential family connection.

Just what they need, a bunch of American Sicilians trying to take their house and land.

I thought the significance of that is that it was 3 women who clearly wanted them gone, just like at home.

They probably weren't even Di Grasso family. Lucia made it up to set up the "going with the angry pimp" scene.

[Anonymous]

Does Tanya like this coked up lion-looking Italian with the elephant trunk penis? Didn’t even get to see her boobs

[Anonymous]

One thing I like about this show is how much empathy it has for its characters. I think a lot of the commentary on here simply reflects the ways in which viewers have less empathy than the show itself does:

Does Portia complain a lot while doing nothing to change her circumstances? Yes. Is this an incredibly common predicament? Also yes. Are some of the crises we face as a society right now (environmental collapse, the rise of right-wing fascism, the way technology and social media is impacting social connections and how people derive meaning from their lives) making it particularly easy for young people to fall into this trap? Yes, yes, yes. I am an old person but I understand Portia's outlook, even if I can also agree that it's unproductive and ultimately harmful to her. She's someone from a working or middle class background (tells Albie she went to Chico State, for instance) who is pretty middle-of-the-road intellectually, looks wise, etc. She's "very online" as most young people today are, but she has pretty minimal tools available to her (either internal tools or external tools) to do much of anything to about the Big problems in the world.

What Portia doesn't realize, but I think might by the end of the next episode, is that it is not up to her to fix any of these problems. The task that faces her is to find a way to live within the world as it is, with the resources at her disposal, in a way that is meaningful and rewarding to her. She has to navigate her own relationship with the world, and not simply allow it to be mediated by social media or what others tell her she should do. And you can do that even if you aren't a genius or aren't rich. Anyone can do this. Portia has to recognize her own power. This is such a common coming-of-age story. I certainly went through it, and I'd bet most people on this thread did too. Some might have gone through it much younger (easier if you have great parenting and the right environment growing up) or later (nothing to be ashamed of, everyone comes to this in their own time) but it's part of growing up.

So when I see people complaining that Portia is "inert" or complains to much, I'm like "Yes, this is the whole point of her character." If Portia were not in this point in her life where she feels overwhelmed by the world and just kind of paralyzed by the perceived expectations of how she's supposed to live, she would not be working for Tanya and staying at the White Lotus, which is like a very fancy retreat for people struggling with the shortcomings of their lives, personalities, and relationships. It's weird to get mad about it because that's what this show is all about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you read closely, my initial point was that Portia and Harper were lumped together as “privileged” when they are on entirely different planes of privilege. Does a nanny exist on the same level of privilege as their employer? No, and I bet the ides of that would be infuriating to a lot of mom bosses.

No but we are still privileged to live in this time. And these people are privileged to live in these countries and have this type of access. I don't think a nanny has the same privilege that their employer has, but depending on the circumstances they could have and objectively pretty decent life. Especially compared to historical comparisons. That doesn't mean they can't have problems or work to fix them or that they can never vent, but Portia is not supposed to just be someone who has problems, she is someone who complains while being inert. And the lack of inertia she displays while doing almost nothing but griping is what highlights just how much she DOES have.

But Portia is not complaining about what she doesn't have, she is complaining about the state of the world. Her quibbles are not material in nature, she is concerned about war, climate change, women's rights. And if she were complaining about income inequality, why not? It's a totally valid complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing I like about this show is how much empathy it has for its characters. I think a lot of the commentary on here simply reflects the ways in which viewers have less empathy than the show itself does:

Does Portia complain a lot while doing nothing to change her circumstances? Yes. Is this an incredibly common predicament? Also yes. Are some of the crises we face as a society right now (environmental collapse, the rise of right-wing fascism, the way technology and social media is impacting social connections and how people derive meaning from their lives) making it particularly easy for young people to fall into this trap? Yes, yes, yes. I am an old person but I understand Portia's outlook, even if I can also agree that it's unproductive and ultimately harmful to her. She's someone from a working or middle class background (tells Albie she went to Chico State, for instance) who is pretty middle-of-the-road intellectually, looks wise, etc. She's "very online" as most young people today are, but she has pretty minimal tools available to her (either internal tools or external tools) to do much of anything to about the Big problems in the world.

What Portia doesn't realize, but I think might by the end of the next episode, is that it is not up to her to fix any of these problems. The task that faces her is to find a way to live within the world as it is, with the resources at her disposal, in a way that is meaningful and rewarding to her. She has to navigate her own relationship with the world, and not simply allow it to be mediated by social media or what others tell her she should do. And you can do that even if you aren't a genius or aren't rich. Anyone can do this. Portia has to recognize her own power. This is such a common coming-of-age story. I certainly went through it, and I'd bet most people on this thread did too. Some might have gone through it much younger (easier if you have great parenting and the right environment growing up) or later (nothing to be ashamed of, everyone comes to this in their own time) but it's part of growing up.

So when I see people complaining that Portia is "inert" or complains to much, I'm like "Yes, this is the whole point of her character." If Portia were not in this point in her life where she feels overwhelmed by the world and just kind of paralyzed by the perceived expectations of how she's supposed to live, she would not be working for Tanya and staying at the White Lotus, which is like a very fancy retreat for people struggling with the shortcomings of their lives, personalities, and relationships. It's weird to get mad about it because that's what this show is all about.

There’s a tension dynamic between complain about the reality of it all and be happy despite the reality of it all. Portia/Jack and Tanya and Harper/Daphne Ethan/Cameron, also could add Albie/Lucia and Valentina/Mia, even Dom/his dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Tanya like this coked up lion-looking Italian with the elephant trunk penis? Didn’t even get to see her boobs

I thought he was gorgeous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing I like about this show is how much empathy it has for its characters. I think a lot of the commentary on here simply reflects the ways in which viewers have less empathy than the show itself does:

Does Portia complain a lot while doing nothing to change her circumstances? Yes. Is this an incredibly common predicament? Also yes. Are some of the crises we face as a society right now (environmental collapse, the rise of right-wing fascism, the way technology and social media is impacting social connections and how people derive meaning from their lives) making it particularly easy for young people to fall into this trap? Yes, yes, yes. I am an old person but I understand Portia's outlook, even if I can also agree that it's unproductive and ultimately harmful to her. She's someone from a working or middle class background (tells Albie she went to Chico State, for instance) who is pretty middle-of-the-road intellectually, looks wise, etc. She's "very online" as most young people today are, but she has pretty minimal tools available to her (either internal tools or external tools) to do much of anything to about the Big problems in the world.

What Portia doesn't realize, but I think might by the end of the next episode, is that it is not up to her to fix any of these problems. The task that faces her is to find a way to live within the world as it is, with the resources at her disposal, in a way that is meaningful and rewarding to her. She has to navigate her own relationship with the world, and not simply allow it to be mediated by social media or what others tell her she should do. And you can do that even if you aren't a genius or aren't rich. Anyone can do this. Portia has to recognize her own power. This is such a common coming-of-age story. I certainly went through it, and I'd bet most people on this thread did too. Some might have gone through it much younger (easier if you have great parenting and the right environment growing up) or later (nothing to be ashamed of, everyone comes to this in their own time) but it's part of growing up.

So when I see people complaining that Portia is "inert" or complains to much, I'm like "Yes, this is the whole point of her character." If Portia were not in this point in her life where she feels overwhelmed by the world and just kind of paralyzed by the perceived expectations of how she's supposed to live, she would not be working for Tanya and staying at the White Lotus, which is like a very fancy retreat for people struggling with the shortcomings of their lives, personalities, and relationships. It's weird to get mad about it because that's what this show is all about.

I am the poster who called her inert and basically agree with everything you are saying. A lot of the Portia pushback has been against a specific poster who seems to think Portia's worldview is...I don't know, but they aren't giving the nuance you are giving. I agree this is very common and its something she can work through and I think that is what the show is saying. I think pp was saying 'well really her life DOES such so stop being so hard on her' and that is what made other posters bristle.

There are a lot of REALLY simplistic black/white reads on the characters in this thread and its honestly eye opening to me about the whole world that there is such a drive to put these characters into neat boxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I like about this show is how much empathy it has for its characters. I think a lot of the commentary on here simply reflects the ways in which viewers have less empathy than the show itself does:

Does Portia complain a lot while doing nothing to change her circumstances? Yes. Is this an incredibly common predicament? Also yes. Are some of the crises we face as a society right now (environmental collapse, the rise of right-wing fascism, the way technology and social media is impacting social connections and how people derive meaning from their lives) making it particularly easy for young people to fall into this trap? Yes, yes, yes. I am an old person but I understand Portia's outlook, even if I can also agree that it's unproductive and ultimately harmful to her. She's someone from a working or middle class background (tells Albie she went to Chico State, for instance) who is pretty middle-of-the-road intellectually, looks wise, etc. She's "very online" as most young people today are, but she has pretty minimal tools available to her (either internal tools or external tools) to do much of anything to about the Big problems in the world.

What Portia doesn't realize, but I think might by the end of the next episode, is that it is not up to her to fix any of these problems. The task that faces her is to find a way to live within the world as it is, with the resources at her disposal, in a way that is meaningful and rewarding to her. She has to navigate her own relationship with the world, and not simply allow it to be mediated by social media or what others tell her she should do. And you can do that even if you aren't a genius or aren't rich. Anyone can do this. Portia has to recognize her own power. This is such a common coming-of-age story. I certainly went through it, and I'd bet most people on this thread did too. Some might have gone through it much younger (easier if you have great parenting and the right environment growing up) or later (nothing to be ashamed of, everyone comes to this in their own time) but it's part of growing up.

So when I see people complaining that Portia is "inert" or complains to much, I'm like "Yes, this is the whole point of her character." If Portia were not in this point in her life where she feels overwhelmed by the world and just kind of paralyzed by the perceived expectations of how she's supposed to live, she would not be working for Tanya and staying at the White Lotus, which is like a very fancy retreat for people struggling with the shortcomings of their lives, personalities, and relationships. It's weird to get mad about it because that's what this show is all about.

There’s a tension dynamic between complain about the reality of it all and be happy despite the reality of it all. Portia/Jack and Tanya and Harper/Daphne Ethan/Cameron, also could add Albie/Lucia and Valentina/Mia, even Dom/his dad.

There’s also a tension with the gays looking to get a cash infusion to maintain the historic, old school “beautiful” way of life in Palermo. Basically is it worth it to throw all your resources into this fantasy hedonistic location and lifestyle when it would be better to help the environment, the woman with her healing center (from Season 1) etc.

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Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

Ugh I was so nervous when he went running solo/swimming. That'd kind of be a less satisfying death though? We're expecting a big fight between Harper/Cameron and it's a pure accident on his own?

I mean, it's just a guess! We'll see what happens. My predictions are:
- ethan
- quentin
- jack
-greg

Mine are

- Lucia
- Quentin

I think:
- Nonno
- Greg

I was very worried for Nonno at that crazy house of women!

We haven't talked about that - what was up with that? I have to admit that I thought it was hugely cringey to just drive up to this random house and expect the family to be thrilled to see their very distant relatives that immigrated to the US generations ago. I felt bad for Nonno, but I also thought the whole idea was questionable. Maybe with Lucia to translate, but even then.

It shows Nonno's arrogance. The reunion he had in his mind was not based on any reality and normal people know that and wouldn't do what they did. He is so wrapped up in himself and his own world - think about his belief that his wife was not bothered by his affairs, that he didn't approach this in any reasonable way.

I would absolutely do exactly what he did, and figure it might turn out that the people were thrilled to meet me and might turn out they slam the door.

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial that the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all-time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

I think they’re outside and he’s drunk and suddenly says this. He’s talking about Roman ages, nailing people to crosses to fry in the sun, Barbarians, burning witches— how far humans have come. And her she is complaining that the world is ending because of people.

Yes, the old "things were worse in the past, so therefore you can't complain about or try to change anything about the present!" A close cousin of "you think there's sexism in the West? Why don't you go live in Saudi Arabia then! Women have it great!"

Exactly this.

No, not at all because Portia was saying the world as a whole is worse than it ever was, which is an absurd statement by any metric (poverty, mortality, wealth, life span, injustice, racism, etc)

She said no such thing. She said the world was a f'd up place to which Jack replied "what's wrong with it?" and she said, "are you joking? everything is falling apart." And then he says, "you would rather live in the middle ages then, would you?" and made a little speech that is a great world and talks about how people were hacking each other to bits in the middle ages. He doesn't even bring up poverty, mortality, life span, injustice, racism, etc.

All of which are vastly improved and continuing to. Even look at how many countries have moved from emerging market status and beyond and have middle classes. Amazing.

That’s not what she was saying. She was totally despondent about the world and said it was falling apart. Jack provided some well needed context: that we live in the best time in human history. By every measurable statistic that is a true statement.

Except that, as PP said, we are in a period of mass extinction and if we don't engage in difficult collective action life as we know it is about to become worse in ways we can't even really conceive of. But we do have Netflix and good food. I think day to day our lives are pretty great - but we have major existential threats hanging over us that many of us (and Portia and Harper) spend time thinking and worrying about, and others (Jack, Daphne) do not.