The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do we think Harper giving Daphne the aspirin was significant at all? This show doesn’t seem to have any throwaway lines. Remember that Harper takes Ambien? Maybe she gives one to Daphne by accident. Or on purpose.

I thought the purpose of that was to underscore the obvious tension at the table, and that Daphne, per the usual, is ignorant of it, or more likely, actively ignoring it.

It has to be significant. It was clearly in the shot; like they zoomed in to make sure the transfer of the bottle was in the shot.,

I thought it was just a callback to one of the first episodes where Harper asked for an ambien and nobody at the table had one because they don't ever need to take them. But now that the trip has gone on longer Daphne needs some meds, and the two women are now friendly enough to help one another out. Daphne has gotten a little closer to Harper.

[Anonymous]

Anyone else think something happened between Cameron and Ethan in college that hasn’t been divulged yet? I have this weird feeling that maybe Cameron came onto Ethan in college or something. Definitely a weird undercurrent beyond competition. I think Ethan came on the trip to revisit/reclaim/challenge that past experience. Ethan definitely seems traumatized by sex and Cameron. Maybe Ethan is gay??

[Anonymous]

Back in episode one, when Lucia and her friend are first shown, they’re walking down the street and pass by Alessio. Lucia says hi to him in a pretty normal/friendly way. Not sure why I’m sharing this, but there you go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did anyone notice that Lucia says Ciao to Alessandro at the beginning of Episode 1. And the title of that episode is Ciao.

I’m starting to zero in on her… Albie has to find out about her ruse so by the time she dies he’s not heartbroken anymore. Writers like to kill someone who’s cruelly become obsolete.

What is Lucia’s ruse? Let’s break her actions down a little bit….

I assumed, when Albie asked how much it would cost for her to be free of her “pimp”, that the ruse is to get him to buy her “freedom”.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

Ugh I was so nervous when he went running solo/swimming. That'd kind of be a less satisfying death though? We're expecting a big fight between Harper/Cameron and it's a pure accident on his own?

I mean, it's just a guess! We'll see what happens. My predictions are:
- ethan
- quentin
- jack
-greg

Mine are

- Lucia
- Quentin

I think:
- Nonno
- Greg

I was very worried for Nonno at that crazy house of women!

We haven't talked about that - what was up with that? I have to admit that I thought it was hugely cringey to just drive up to this random house and expect the family to be thrilled to see their very distant relatives that immigrated to the US generations ago. I felt bad for Nonno, but I also thought the whole idea was questionable. Maybe with Lucia to translate, but even then.

It shows Nonno's arrogance. The reunion he had in his mind was not based on any reality and normal people know that and wouldn't do what they did. He is so wrapped up in himself and his own world - think about his belief that his wife was not bothered by his affairs, that he didn't approach this in any reasonable way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial that the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all-time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

I think they’re outside and he’s drunk and suddenly says this. He’s talking about Roman ages, nailing people to crosses to fry in the sun, Barbarians, burning witches— how far humans have come. And her she is complaining that the world is ending because of people.

Yes, the old "things were worse in the past, so therefore you can't complain about or try to change anything about the present!" A close cousin of "you think there's sexism in the West? Why don't you go live in Saudi Arabia then! Women have it great!"

Exactly this.

No, not at all because Portia was saying the world as a whole is worse than it ever was, which is an absurd statement by any metric (poverty, mortality, wealth, life span, injustice, racism, etc)

She said no such thing. She said the world was a f'd up place to which Jack replied "what's wrong with it?" and she said, "are you joking? everything is falling apart." And then he says, "you would rather live in the middle ages then, would you?" and made a little speech that is a great world and talks about how people were hacking each other to bits in the middle ages. He doesn't even bring up poverty, mortality, life span, injustice, racism, etc.

All of which are vastly improved and continuing to. Even look at how many countries have moved from emerging market status and beyond and have middle classes. Amazing.

That’s not what she was saying. She was totally despondent about the world and said it was falling apart. Jack provided some well needed context: that we live in the best time in human history. By every measurable statistic that is a true statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else think something happened between Cameron and Ethan in college that hasn’t been divulged yet? I have this weird feeling that maybe Cameron came onto Ethan in college or something. Definitely a weird undercurrent beyond competition. I think Ethan came on the trip to revisit/reclaim/challenge that past experience. Ethan definitely seems traumatized by sex and Cameron. Maybe Ethan is gay??

I think that what they explained last episode could likely fully explain this. That Cameron has a repeated habit of stealing women that Ethan is interested in or with. If that happens enough times and you push it down it could absolutely unleash a well of rage when you show up with your wives and it happens again. But of course its very much treating Harper like a child. In this imagined infidelity, he is more angry at Cameron than Harper.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes. A valuable perspective from ... a guy that was in such a desperate situation that he drinks himself into oblivion and became a lover for hire for a gay con man.

Believing that certain qualities about a person mean that nothing they say has value or insight is an affliction common in our time and an affliction of great hubris.

I think the point of Jack’s soliloquy is that it was a surprise to see deep thoughts coming from a guy who otherwise has been coming across shallow. On the one hand you can see it grab Portia’s attention and she perks up. But on the other hand it forshadows that he is not what he seems.

It foreshadows that he knows what it means to truly suffer. And it gets to the heart of why Portia is so insufferable - that she is constantly bemoaning her life and the world despite living a life of great opulence and privilege (and yes its not all hers but she's being put up in this hotel in her own room so she clearly gets a lot of perks).

I think a central theme of the show, both seasons, is clearly that great opulence creates blindness to true human suffering and even rich people who 'care' can quickly turn their back on someone struggling if it make them uncomfortable. And the flip side is they are frequently isolated in their own suffering when it does occur, with no one else wanting to interrupt the fantasy to help them.

This

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

Ugh I was so nervous when he went running solo/swimming. That'd kind of be a less satisfying death though? We're expecting a big fight between Harper/Cameron and it's a pure accident on his own?

I mean, it's just a guess! We'll see what happens. My predictions are:
- ethan
- quentin
- jack
-greg

Mine are

- Lucia
- Quentin

I think:
- Nonno
- Greg

I was very worried for Nonno at that crazy house of women!

We haven't talked about that - what was up with that? I have to admit that I thought it was hugely cringey to just drive up to this random house and expect the family to be thrilled to see their very distant relatives that immigrated to the US generations ago. I felt bad for Nonno, but I also thought the whole idea was questionable. Maybe with Lucia to translate, but even then.

She put the Sicilian curse in them. As a Sicilian, I can tell you, they are screwed now.

Nonno got me in that dinner scene, the line about how you always think it’ll be a grand homecoming was well acted and incredibly touching. I do agree that they should’ve planned for that much better. I don’t know why Albie didn’t try to use the translation app when entering the home. I did feel some more sympathy towards his character when he pleaded with Lucia to not go to Alessio too.

I don’t think the translation app would have helped because I don’t think language barrier was the problem. The women were totally underwhelmed by the potential family connection.

Just what they need, a bunch of American Sicilians trying to take their house and land.

Wow this episode went totally over your head

[Anonymous]

Ethan staring into space like a dope in the beginning of this episode sums up this dweebs acting performance so far

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

If you don’t think someone like Portia - who has not motivation, isn’t ridiculously smart - doesn’t have a lot of privilege when she is staying for free in one of the nicest hotels I’ve ever seen on a television series just because she occasionally has to coddle Tanya, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you read closely, my initial point was that Portia and Harper were lumped together as “privileged” when they are on entirely different planes of privilege. Does a nanny exist on the same level of privilege as their employer? No, and I bet the ides of that would be infuriating to a lot of mom bosses.

[Anonymous]

In episode 1 those disembodied heads seem to bother Ethan and Tanya the most. It’s like the heads are observing the hotel guests in judgment. Ethan periodically glares back, and Tanya straight up said she had a dream that Greg was evil and had eyes like a shark. The heads are supposed to serve as a warning that evil is afoot. So it seems that voodoo is working on Ethan and Tanya particularly hard.

[Anonymous]

Should we assume at this point that someone’s head will be cut off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Should we assume at this point that someone’s head will be cut off?

No fool