What is going on with student loans?

[Anonymous]

I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

[Anonymous]

Instead of forgiving existing loans for some, they should focus on fixing the cost of college attendance for everyone. Its not fair to burden students with debt or squeeze responsible donut hole parents out of their savings. All colleges should have same low flat fee for all families, not $80k for one and $20k for other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

The HEROES Act was also passed by congress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

The HEROES Act was also passed by congress.

It's called "HEROES" for a reason. People unwilling to pay their college loans but expect the taxpayers to do it for them are no heroes.

Then, there is Nancy Pelosi's statement...

"The president can't do it—so that's not even a discussion," then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said during a June 2021 press conference. "Not everybody realizes that, but the president can only postpone, delay but not forgive student loans. It would take an act of Congress, not an executive order, to cancel student loan debt."

Fortunately, it seems, based on the arguments at SCOTUS this past week, that SCOTUS will rule this as overreach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

It is not clear at all as you state. I can post article after article with experts saying it is clearly unconstitutional.

Here:

https://reason.com/2023/02/23/no-the-heroes-act-doesnt-let-biden-forgive-student-loans/
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10818
https://www.investopedia.com/legality-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-6273996
https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegality-bidens-debt-cancellation-plan
https://www.cato.org/blog/bidens-student-debt-forgiveness-plan-illegal
https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/editorial/editorial-courts-are-correct-heroes-act-was-never-meant-for-blanket-student-debt-relief/article_caca7bbd-e866-5767-9a83-faf130388a35.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/12/professors-urge-supreme-court-to-reject-student-loan-forgiveness-lawsuit.html
https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-declares-bidens-student-debt-relief-plan-unconstitutional-2022-11-11/
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/bidens-endless-student-loan-scheme-isnt-just-horrible-policy-its-illegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

HEROES act says no such thing about cancellation of the debt on a mass scale like this. It just says modify or amend as in extending loan moratoriums. Not whole sale extinguishing of loans for people that may or may not have been affected by covid. I heard some of the people getting loan forgiveness did not even reside in the the US at time of the pandemic which just goes to show how slopyily this was rolled out just to influence voting before the midterm elections.

I think this is pretty much dead unless there is some miraculous ruling on standing in favor of the Biden administration. Its going to be 6-3 or 5-4 against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

HEROES act says no such thing about cancellation of the debt on a mass scale like this. It just says modify or amend as in extending loan moratoriums. Not whole sale extinguishing of loans for people that may or may not have been affected by covid. I heard some of the people getting loan forgiveness did not even reside in the the US at time of the pandemic which just goes to show how slopyily this was rolled out just to influence voting before the midterm elections.

I think this is pretty much dead unless there is some miraculous ruling on standing in favor of the Biden administration. Its going to be 6-3 or 5-4 against.

The HEROES Act also uses the term “waive,” which has a much broader meaning than to merely “modify” a program.

Read the CRS article someone posted above - it’s probably the most neutral analysis of the various viewpoints. You may not like the politics of debt forgiveness, but it’s pretty clear that Congress intended to give the Sec. of Education very wide latitude to amend and waive the federal loan programs in a national emergency. You don’t need the magic words of “cancel” or “forgive” in the statute. Another Congress amended the HEROES Act and could’ve clarified further, if they thought it delegated too much power to the Sec. of Education. It seemed that they were just fine with existing language.

Look at the SC conservative justices, many of their arguments in questions were about “fairness.” When has the law cared about “fair”? 😂
The lack of standing issues are also another strike against Republicans on this issue.

My prediction is that the SC says there is lack of standing and don’t rule on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

HEROES act says no such thing about cancellation of the debt on a mass scale like this. It just says modify or amend as in extending loan moratoriums. Not whole sale extinguishing of loans for people that may or may not have been affected by covid. I heard some of the people getting loan forgiveness did not even reside in the the US at time of the pandemic which just goes to show how slopyily this was rolled out just to influence voting before the midterm elections.

I think this is pretty much dead unless there is some miraculous ruling on standing in favor of the Biden administration. Its going to be 6-3 or 5-4 against.

The HEROES Act also uses the term “waive,” which has a much broader meaning than to merely “modify” a program.

Read the CRS article someone posted above - it’s probably the most neutral analysis of the various viewpoints. You may not like the politics of debt forgiveness, but it’s pretty clear that Congress intended to give the Sec. of Education very wide latitude to amend and waive the federal loan programs in a national emergency. You don’t need the magic words of “cancel” or “forgive” in the statute. Another Congress amended the HEROES Act and could’ve clarified further, if they thought it delegated too much power to the Sec. of Education. It seemed that they were just fine with existing language.

Look at the SC conservative justices, many of their arguments in questions were about “fairness.” When has the law cared about “fair”? 😂
The lack of standing issues are also another strike against Republicans on this issue.

My prediction is that the SC says there is lack of standing and don’t rule on it.

I think Justice Roberts said it best....

“I think most casual observers would say, if you’re going to give up that much amount of money, if you’re going to affect the obligations of that many Americans on a subject that’s of great controversy, they would think that’s something for Congress to act on,” Roberts said. “And if they haven’t acted on it, then maybe that’s a good lesson to say for the president or the administrative bureaucracy that maybe that’s not something they should undertake on their own.”

He also said...

“Along comes the government and tells that person: You don’t have to pay your loan,” Roberts said of a hypothetical college loan borrower. “Nobody’s telling the person who is trying to set up the lawn service business that he doesn’t have to pay his loan. He still does, even though his tax dollars are going to support the forgiveness of the loan for the college graduate, who’s now going to make a lot more than him over the course of his lifetime.”

We are talking about half a TRILLION dollars - maybe even as much as a trillion.

If this was such a winner for Biden, I have to wonder why he made absolutely NO REFERENCE to it during his State of the Union speech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Instead of forgiving existing loans for some, they should focus on fixing the cost of college attendance for everyone. Its not fair to burden students with debt or squeeze responsible donut hole parents out of their savings. All colleges should have same low flat fee for all families, not $80k for one and $20k for other.

You’re talking about a small slice of colleges, and only private ones. State flagships mostly do what you describe (flat fee); if that works for you, great.

[Anonymous]

These Twitter whiners do not speak for all borrowers. I’m concerned they’re going to ruin it for the rest of us and make student loans stop being issued or something. I am so glad I had access to these federal loans at relatively low interest rates (certainly compared to private loans) and will gladly pay them off soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

HEROES act says no such thing about cancellation of the debt on a mass scale like this. It just says modify or amend as in extending loan moratoriums. Not whole sale extinguishing of loans for people that may or may not have been affected by covid. I heard some of the people getting loan forgiveness did not even reside in the the US at time of the pandemic which just goes to show how slopyily this was rolled out just to influence voting before the midterm elections.

I think this is pretty much dead unless there is some miraculous ruling on standing in favor of the Biden administration. Its going to be 6-3 or 5-4 against.

The HEROES Act also uses the term “waive,” which has a much broader meaning than to merely “modify” a program.

Read the CRS article someone posted above - it’s probably the most neutral analysis of the various viewpoints. You may not like the politics of debt forgiveness, but it’s pretty clear that Congress intended to give the Sec. of Education very wide latitude to amend and waive the federal loan programs in a national emergency. You don’t need the magic words of “cancel” or “forgive” in the statute. Another Congress amended the HEROES Act and could’ve clarified further, if they thought it delegated too much power to the Sec. of Education. It seemed that they were just fine with existing language.

Look at the SC conservative justices, many of their arguments in questions were about “fairness.” When has the law cared about “fair”? 😂
The lack of standing issues are also another strike against Republicans on this issue.

My prediction is that the SC says there is lack of standing and don’t rule on it.

I think Justice Roberts said it best....

“I think most casual observers would say, if you’re going to give up that much amount of money, if you’re going to affect the obligations of that many Americans on a subject that’s of great controversy, they would think that’s something for Congress to act on,” Roberts said. “And if they haven’t acted on it, then maybe that’s a good lesson to say for the president or the administrative bureaucracy that maybe that’s not something they should undertake on their own.”

He also said...

“Along comes the government and tells that person: You don’t have to pay your loan,” Roberts said of a hypothetical college loan borrower. “Nobody’s telling the person who is trying to set up the lawn service business that he doesn’t have to pay his loan. He still does, even though his tax dollars are going to support the forgiveness of the loan for the college graduate, who’s now going to make a lot more than him over the course of his lifetime.”

We are talking about half a TRILLION dollars - maybe even as much as a trillion.

If this was such a winner for Biden, I have to wonder why he made absolutely NO REFERENCE to it during his State of the Union speech.

Actually, the lawn service guy can declare bankruptcy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont get the constant comparisons to PPP as a justification to allow this boondoggle. PPP was gigantic waste of taxpayer money but at least it was authorized and passed by congress during the height of the pandemic. Nontargeted student loan forgiveness like this costing half a trillion dollars was passed by an overreach of executive action when covid is barely even noticeable. The fact that it was done right before the Nov election to buy votes is super shady.

I dont get the Biden administration insisting they are going to prevail in court but they always like to be reactionary and behind the eight ball. They dont have a chance with Roberts so dont think they will get the five votes to pass this. Cynical me thinks they see this as a win win if this somehow miraculously passes in the supreme court or use it as political fodder to mobilize young voters in the 24 election.

Your ignorance of the actual statutory authority used by Biden tells me that the media is in the tank for the GOP and oligarchs.

The HEROES Act of 2003 very explicitly gives this authority to the Secretary of Education to modify, amend, and cancel and provision of the student loan program during national emergencies, of which the COVID pandemic clearly qualified. The SC essentially wants Biden to go back to Congress and ask permission a 2nd time, despite Congress already passing a law with very clear intent.

The shockingly radical thing about this case is not the student loan cancelation. It’s the Supreme Court second guessing Congress and the Executive branch when the law is already very clear. That is radical and anarchic.

HEROES act says no such thing about cancellation of the debt on a mass scale like this. It just says modify or amend as in extending loan moratoriums. Not whole sale extinguishing of loans for people that may or may not have been affected by covid. I heard some of the people getting loan forgiveness did not even reside in the the US at time of the pandemic which just goes to show how slopyily this was rolled out just to influence voting before the midterm elections.

I think this is pretty much dead unless there is some miraculous ruling on standing in favor of the Biden administration. Its going to be 6-3 or 5-4 against.

The HEROES Act also uses the term “waive,” which has a much broader meaning than to merely “modify” a program.

Read the CRS article someone posted above - it’s probably the most neutral analysis of the various viewpoints. You may not like the politics of debt forgiveness, but it’s pretty clear that Congress intended to give the Sec. of Education very wide latitude to amend and waive the federal loan programs in a national emergency. You don’t need the magic words of “cancel” or “forgive” in the statute. Another Congress amended the HEROES Act and could’ve clarified further, if they thought it delegated too much power to the Sec. of Education. It seemed that they were just fine with existing language.

Look at the SC conservative justices, many of their arguments in questions were about “fairness.” When has the law cared about “fair”? 😂
The lack of standing issues are also another strike against Republicans on this issue.

My prediction is that the SC says there is lack of standing and don’t rule on it.

They’re going to strike it down. They’re a bunch of political hacks and this has become a cause celebre on the right. I actually agree it’s not a particularly wise policy, but it is very clearly within the statutory authority in the HEROES Act.

[Anonymous]

I think it's pretty clear Biden will lose on this issue if they get over the standing issue. Seems to be that way as most of the questioning from the conservative justices seem to center on the legality of the Heroes act to allow for mass cancelation rather than issues regarding standing with the exception of Barrett.

Probably get some shrug from Biden after the loss and asking for more Democrats to be elected in congress to pass student loan cancellation like this or appoint more liberal justices to the SC. The only pawns in this are young adults that actually think student loan cancelation is going to happen and are not planning to pay back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear Biden will lose on this issue if they get over the standing issue. Seems to be that way as most of the questioning from the conservative justices seem to center on the legality of the Heroes act to allow for mass cancelation rather than issues regarding standing with the exception of Barrett.

Probably get some shrug from Biden after the loss and asking for more Democrats to be elected in congress to pass student loan cancellation like this or appoint more liberal justices to the SC. The only pawns in this are young adults that actually think student loan cancelation is going to happen and are not planning to pay back.

The other effect will be the Supreme Court will see its legitimacy further erode. The justices have begun framing their arguments in naked political terms instead of the law. The more people see they are just unelected politicians, the more it will become politically viable for elected officials in the political branches and state governments to just ignore them.