Teacher turnover

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if teachers leave. Everyone is replaceable. I just want my kids back in class, in front of ANY teacher.

You can say that, but i work in admin at a WOTP school in DCPS and we can’t fill all of our vacancies because the pool is so shallow. You will most likely see those positions filled by first year teachers or TFA type who are only around for two years.

Judging by most teachers' comments on DCUM, it seems that most teachers hate their jobs. Maybe it's a good thing if they quit. We can replace them with people who actually want to educate children.

Your child's "teacher" will be inexperienced, incompetent and unqualified, but as you've made abundantly clear, you don't give a damn about actual EDUCATION -- just that they're not in your house.

Well I think they don't care as long as their child is 'babysat' I mean many of these people who post her have typically developing, supported, middle/upper middle class kids. They could be taught by almost anyone and progress. But little do they know that their child could have grown even more with a great teacher.

The parents who do care often have a child with a disability, those advantages still help but they really do need specialized help.

you've just argued that good teachers don't matter for non-SPED kids, so maybe....uh...don't undersell your profession in that way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if teachers leave. Everyone is replaceable. I just want my kids back in class, in front of ANY teacher.

You can say that, but i work in admin at a WOTP school in DCPS and we can’t fill all of our vacancies because the pool is so shallow. You will most likely see those positions filled by first year teachers or TFA type who are only around for two years.

Judging by most teachers' comments on DCUM, it seems that most teachers hate their jobs. Maybe it's a good thing if they quit. We can replace them with people who actually want to educate children.

Your child's "teacher" will be inexperienced, incompetent and unqualified, but as you've made abundantly clear, you don't give a damn about actual EDUCATION -- just that they're not in your house.

Well I think they don't care as long as their child is 'babysat' I mean many of these people who post her have typically developing, supported, middle/upper middle class kids. They could be taught by almost anyone and progress. But little do they know that their child could have grown even more with a great teacher.

The parents who do care often have a child with a disability, those advantages still help but they really do need specialized help.

you've just argued that good teachers don't matter for non-SPED kids, so maybe....uh...don't undersell your profession in that way?

No, I said children who are supported and/or middle and upper class.

ALL title 1 teachers have a class of 60-100% of students who are NOT like this. 70% of DCPS schools are title 1. So no, I'm not underselling at all. I firmly believe most ward 3 (non-title 1) non-specialized teachers are easily replaced. It doesn't mean their job isn't important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

I would need more concrete examples before I believe that parents in favor of reopening "engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale." Because what I saw in my school was the opposite. Teachers *went on strike* (supported by principals) to keep vulnerable kids out of the classroom. This was supported by a contingent of high-profile school parents (including parents who were also elected DC officials) engaging in whisper campaigns to get parents to undermine school reopening. Parents who wanted their kids to go to school were afraid to speak up, because the prominent school parents (LSAT members, PTA presidents) were all literally reposting WTU "ONLY WHEN ITS SAFE" talking points on the school listserv.

LOL! Nobody cares if you "would need more concrete examples." For your examples, peruse the umpteen absurd, hysterical OMG TEACHERS ARE TERRORISTS HOLDING MY BABIES HOOOOSTAAAAAGE!!!! threads that were vomited all over DCUM for the past year. Asinine.

but parents got to hear on DCUM from people saying they were teachers that we just didn't love our children. So. The point: DCUM probably brings out the worst all around and shouldn't be something on which to decide your job or how you feel about a general group of people (parents/teachers).

This. I agree those quoted emails are beyond the pale, and a lot of parent comments about teachers on this board are nasty, but let’s not pretend that teachers and their representatives have been civil here. There have been a lot of personal insults and impugning of parental motives on DCUM, and the only reason teachers haven’t written emails to parents voicing those views is that it would have gotten them in trouble with their principals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

I would need more concrete examples before I believe that parents in favor of reopening "engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale." Because what I saw in my school was the opposite. Teachers *went on strike* (supported by principals) to keep vulnerable kids out of the classroom. This was supported by a contingent of high-profile school parents (including parents who were also elected DC officials) engaging in whisper campaigns to get parents to undermine school reopening. Parents who wanted their kids to go to school were afraid to speak up, because the prominent school parents (LSAT members, PTA presidents) were all literally reposting WTU "ONLY WHEN ITS SAFE" talking points on the school listserv.

LOL! Nobody cares if you "would need more concrete examples." For your examples, peruse the umpteen absurd, hysterical OMG TEACHERS ARE TERRORISTS HOLDING MY BABIES HOOOOSTAAAAAGE!!!! threads that were vomited all over DCUM for the past year. Asinine.

but parents got to hear on DCUM from people saying they were teachers that we just didn't love our children. So. The point: DCUM probably brings out the worst all around and shouldn't be something on which to decide your job or how you feel about a general group of people (parents/teachers).

This. I agree those quoted emails are beyond the pale, and a lot of parent comments about teachers on this board are nasty, but let’s not pretend that teachers and their representatives have been civil here. There have been a lot of personal insults and impugning of parental motives on DCUM, and the only reason teachers haven’t written emails to parents voicing those views is that it would have gotten them in trouble with their principals.

I mean if you are nasty on the internet you get nasty back. I feel most people wear a mask of civility. At the end of the day we should really be looking at how DCPS can do better not just how teachers or parents can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

I would need more concrete examples before I believe that parents in favor of reopening "engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale." Because what I saw in my school was the opposite. Teachers *went on strike* (supported by principals) to keep vulnerable kids out of the classroom. This was supported by a contingent of high-profile school parents (including parents who were also elected DC officials) engaging in whisper campaigns to get parents to undermine school reopening. Parents who wanted their kids to go to school were afraid to speak up, because the prominent school parents (LSAT members, PTA presidents) were all literally reposting WTU "ONLY WHEN ITS SAFE" talking points on the school listserv.

LOL! Nobody cares if you "would need more concrete examples." For your examples, peruse the umpteen absurd, hysterical OMG TEACHERS ARE TERRORISTS HOLDING MY BABIES HOOOOSTAAAAAGE!!!! threads that were vomited all over DCUM for the past year. Asinine.

but parents got to hear on DCUM from people saying they were teachers that we just didn't love our children. So. The point: DCUM probably brings out the worst all around and shouldn't be something on which to decide your job or how you feel about a general group of people (parents/teachers).

This. I agree those quoted emails are beyond the pale, and a lot of parent comments about teachers on this board are nasty, but let’s not pretend that teachers and their representatives have been civil here. There have been a lot of personal insults and impugning of parental motives on DCUM, and the only reason teachers haven’t written emails to parents voicing those views is that it would have gotten them in trouble with their principals.

I mean if you are nasty on the internet you get nasty back. I feel most people wear a mask of civility. At the end of the day we should really be looking at how DCPS can do better not just how teachers or parents can.

Is your first point that parents started it? Not sure there is much use arguing about that, but I do remember already from last summer allegations that parents who wanted schools to open were bad parents who just wanted their kids out of the house. That was a talking point early on and long before parents got really exasperated with the ongoing closures.

I agree with your second point though. And I also agree with the PP’s point that nobody should form their views about either teachers or parents based on what they read here. My guess is the nastiest voices are serial offenders and there aren’t that may of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if teachers leave. Everyone is replaceable. I just want my kids back in class, in front of ANY teacher.

You can say that, but i work in admin at a WOTP school in DCPS and we can’t fill all of our vacancies because the pool is so shallow. You will most likely see those positions filled by first year teachers or TFA type who are only around for two years.

Judging by most teachers' comments on DCUM, it seems that most teachers hate their jobs. Maybe it's a good thing if they quit. We can replace them with people who actually want to educate children.

Your child's "teacher" will be inexperienced, incompetent and unqualified, but as you've made abundantly clear, you don't give a damn about actual EDUCATION -- just that they're not in your house.

Well I think they don't care as long as their child is 'babysat' I mean many of these people who post her have typically developing, supported, middle/upper middle class kids. They could be taught by almost anyone and progress. But little do they know that their child could have grown even more with a great teacher.

The parents who do care often have a child with a disability, those advantages still help but they really do need specialized help.

you've just argued that good teachers don't matter for non-SPED kids, so maybe....uh...don't undersell your profession in that way?

No, I said children who are supported and/or middle and upper class.

ALL title 1 teachers have a class of 60-100% of students who are NOT like this. 70% of DCPS schools are title 1. So no, I'm not underselling at all. I firmly believe most ward 3 (non-title 1) non-specialized teachers are easily replaced. It doesn't mean their job isn't important.

Right, so you agree with the (likely Ward 3 non-title 1) parent saying they’d rather have any teacher in person than an experienced teacher who won’t show for in-person. So I guess the quality of non-SPED Ward 3 teacher doesn’t matter, bc the thing that really matters is parent resources/education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

I think we should have had most students and teachers back February 1. I understand the anger. BUT I did see specific examples of beyond the pale behavior including our admin being shouted at and threatened by a parent demanding an IPL spot to the point the police were called. It was, to sway the least, ineffective behavior.

that sounds over the top and inexusable. but still, it’s appropriate for politicians to know how very very angry people were about this. Never again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if teachers leave. Everyone is replaceable. I just want my kids back in class, in front of ANY teacher.

You can say that, but i work in admin at a WOTP school in DCPS and we can’t fill all of our vacancies because the pool is so shallow. You will most likely see those positions filled by first year teachers or TFA type who are only around for two years.

Judging by most teachers' comments on DCUM, it seems that most teachers hate their jobs. Maybe it's a good thing if they quit. We can replace them with people who actually want to educate children.

Your child's "teacher" will be inexperienced, incompetent and unqualified, but as you've made abundantly clear, you don't give a damn about actual EDUCATION -- just that they're not in your house.

Well I think they don't care as long as their child is 'babysat' I mean many of these people who post her have typically developing, supported, middle/upper middle class kids. They could be taught by almost anyone and progress. But little do they know that their child could have grown even more with a great teacher.

The parents who do care often have a child with a disability, those advantages still help but they really do need specialized help.

you've just argued that good teachers don't matter for non-SPED kids, so maybe....uh...don't undersell your profession in that way?

No, I said children who are supported and/or middle and upper class.

ALL title 1 teachers have a class of 60-100% of students who are NOT like this. 70% of DCPS schools are title 1. So no, I'm not underselling at all. I firmly believe most ward 3 (non-title 1) non-specialized teachers are easily replaced. It doesn't mean their job isn't important.

Right, so you agree with the (likely Ward 3 non-title 1) parent saying they’d rather have any teacher in person than an experienced teacher who won’t show for in-person. So I guess the quality of non-SPED Ward 3 teacher doesn’t matter, bc the thing that really matters is parent resources/education.

Actually no, that is not what I said. It's never easy to teach students with special needs or ELL students. I'm not sure why you're trying to twist my words.
I also said nothing about a DL teacher vs. IPL for sped but pop off. PP stated she just wants her kid back in person no matter what type of teacher and I am saying she likely is ok with that because if she has a typical child, who is born with resources, and has no lasting trauma, they will likely progress no matter what. This was not a comparison to a excellent DL teacher and a horrible IPL teacher.

Even with money for sped you still need a teacher who is able to deliver specialized instruction, materials and curriculum help but the person delivering it must know what they are doing. The student won't be very successful, that's the whole point of requiring specialized instruction. So if you actually meant W3 sped kids have an advantage over kids whose school's can't get money from the PTO then sure but with the caveat of the teacher being decently good. Resources won't help if you don't know how to use them.

[Anonymous]

I’m curious to see how many Deal loses this year. It’s so big that many people don’t realize when lots of people leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious to see how many Deal loses this year. It’s so big that many people don’t realize when lots of people leave.

They notice when their 6th grader has a long term sub in ELA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious to see how many Deal loses this year. It’s so big that many people don’t realize when lots of people leave.

They notice when their 6th grader has a long term sub in ELA

This year or last?

[Anonymous]

My Deal sixth grader had a long-term sub this year due to the regular teacher’s maternity leave. She was fantastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So far the principal has announced only three leaving at Janney.

Another teacher announced their departure last night. I think there will be one more, all told, in a lower grade.

[Anonymous]

Several at Hearst have now announced, as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far the principal has announced only three leaving at Janney.

Another teacher announced their departure last night. I think there will be one more, all told, in a lower grade.

I believe if a specific "coordinator" retired (or at least supported her team), they would have less teachers leaving.