Smart Restart APS- ventilation studies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does no one question this bully? Her only credentials seem to be that she is loud, long-winded and creates colorful charts. She is a graphic artist and appears to have not been in the workforce for years, except for her invitation-making business.

I agree. I find it very strange that not only is the graphic artist is getting away with this but that so many are going along with it. There are a few in the group who are getting so much bizarre adulation from the others that it just feeds them to keep going, increasing their perceived self-importance and some people’s paralyzing fear about the pandemic. The whole situation is nuts. It’d make a good research project for a psychology class.

She has been advocating for good air quality/ventilation for months. A key factor for the transmission of this virus. I don’t get why this is an actual *problem* for some people.

WTF have you done - aside from bullying people?

If all she was doing was advocacy, great. But she’s not. She is putting herself out there as an expert and, along with her fan club, tries to shame anyone who disagrees. She refuses to tell people her credentials, blocks people who disagree with her and won’t share her data. She is on a power trip cloaked as advocacy.

She isn’t claiming to be an expert.
She has been and is sharing data.

If you want people to listen to you then stop lying and bullying. And start making rational points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does no one question this bully? Her only credentials seem to be that she is loud, long-winded and creates colorful charts. She is a graphic artist and appears to have not been in the workforce for years, except for her invitation-making business.

^^ speaking of bullies

Her qualifications are on her LinkedIn. Sorry if public facts seem like bullying, but I am sick of her shutting down discussion. The way she refused to even entertain sharing how she came to her conclusions was weird. She makes broad, sweeping claims with pretty graphics (because she is a graphic artist) that are designed to make the reader believe the information is backed by solid science. It is not. She is well-intentioned, but a hack. And so many clueless sycophants encourage her to keep producing. She has a history of bullying on other topics in the past - in real life, not saying on social media.

I am not APE, but I don’t care for how she squelches discussion and sows fear.

What does her profession have to do with anything?

Feel free to challenge her points or question the data, but trying to tear her down because of her job is straight-up bullying.

Seems like you’re trying to silence her instead of addressing her points.

No one can challenge her analysis because she refuses to share it, and admit it involves certain assumptions on her part that no one else can review and evaluate. Peer-review is the gold standard of scientific research, so when researchers refuse to allow peer review, their data is considered inherently suspect. The same is true here.

Oh, FFS, she wasn’t holding out her data as having been peer reviewed or as a scientific gold standard. She crunched some numbers and was revealing to parents that APS needed to do some more work on school ventilation (which they do!) and they need to release some more data (which they do!). She explained why she wasn’t releasing her own work—apparently she shared prior work with members of APE, who used it against her in a very personal attack. She doesn’t owe anybody anything. If you want to “peer review” her work, then ask APS for the same data they gave her and you can put in the same time and effort she did. Until then, I respectfully request that you stop with this attacks. Like her or not, her efforts are leading to safer classrooms, even for hybrid kids who return early next month. Her kids are remaining virtual, so she has done this work for ALL kids, not just hers. No one has said the Smart Restart safety goals are prerequisites to opening. Her work just helps APS identify areas where they can take additional safety steps to protect kids when they return to classrooms soon.

No, she's withholding the data because when she and her cohort have shared their data analysis on issues in the past, people picked through the spreadsheets and found errors that completely undermined their results. She doesn't want anyone finding her calculation errors and faulty assumptions for fear it might turn out she's completely wrong in her conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And hers and others falsification and fear mongering is keeping vulnerable children out of school. It’s not making school safer it’s making it unattainable. It’s not noble. And she was not personally attacked. She views being challenged as a personal attack.

What are you talking about? We have returned to school dates.

[Anonymous]

Don’t know any of the people involved in Smart Restart but they have my gratitude and support. They have opening with an emphasis on student safety and best practices as their priority. APS is clueless and the screaming mob just wants their kids in school breathing COVID mists at 100 student mass lunches ASAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

Why are you blaming the SR people for the pandemic? That doesn’t make any sense.

Were you blaming “the teachers” too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

What an irresponsible comment. You don’t know what any of the members of any group are going through, unless they have spoken out about it. I have heard some members from that group speak at SB meetings and at office hours for SB members. Some of them have kids with special needs and various types of learning challenges. Some of their kids also are failing everything and having mental health issues. Some of them are sending their kids back in hybrid, while others kids are remaining virtual. They have a lot of different backgrounds, but their one commonality is they are trying to get as much safety as possible for whenever it is that students and staff get back into school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

Honestly. People are in difficult circumstances. Everyone knows that. Unfortunately, empathy won’t keep my kids safe from the virus. I’d like them to go to school. But 300-400 kids in a middle and a high school at one time requires a lot of safety planning APS isn’t doing. I can be empathetic but that doesn’t change the need for best safety practices. APE and the like have never understood this. They or their kids need to go to school NOW so anyone advOcating for safety measures is a crazy person getting in their way. Insert anecdotal story about cousin in GA or FL or TX. Nope. It doesn’t work that way. We have CDC guidance and best practices. Serious people take that seriously. Decision makers responsible fir the health and safety of 30,000 need to take that seriously. Even if you don’t. Safety trumps empathy. So very tired of people advocating for their current individual need vs. actual best practices. Thank gid for Smart Restart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

Honestly. People are in difficult circumstances. Everyone knows that. Unfortunately, empathy won’t keep my kids safe from the virus. I’d like them to go to school. But 300-400 kids in a middle and a high school at one time requires a lot of safety planning APS isn’t doing. I can be empathetic but that doesn’t change the need for best safety practices. APE and the like have never understood this. They or their kids need to go to school NOW so anyone advOcating for safety measures is a crazy person getting in their way. Insert anecdotal story about cousin in GA or FL or TX. Nope. It doesn’t work that way. We have CDC guidance and best practices. Serious people take that seriously. Decision makers responsible fir the health and safety of 30,000 need to take that seriously. Even if you don’t. Safety trumps empathy. So very tired of people advocating for their current individual need vs. actual best practices. Thank gid for Smart Restart.

x1000 We are other parents who feel exactly the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does no one question this bully? Her only credentials seem to be that she is loud, long-winded and creates colorful charts. She is a graphic artist and appears to have not been in the workforce for years, except for her invitation-making business.

I agree. I find it very strange that not only is the graphic artist is getting away with this but that so many are going along with it. There are a few in the group who are getting so much bizarre adulation from the others that it just feeds them to keep going, increasing their perceived self-importance and some people’s paralyzing fear about the pandemic. The whole situation is nuts. It’d make a good research project for a psychology class.

She has been advocating for good air quality/ventilation for months. A key factor for the transmission of this virus. I don’t get why this is an actual *problem* for some people.

WTF have you done - aside from bullying people?

Because it already exists. And it amazes me that educated people don't get that. People in some slightly older buildings with no upgrades have been working for months.
If the ventilation in modern buildings was an issue, then these workplaces would literally have been wiped out and had to close.
But that didn't happen.

What she wants is above and beyond the needed. And what does that translate to? Maybe a .0005% benefit? Who knows? She certainly doesn't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

Honestly. People are in difficult circumstances. Everyone knows that. Unfortunately, empathy won’t keep my kids safe from the virus. I’d like them to go to school. But 300-400 kids in a middle and a high school at one time requires a lot of safety planning APS isn’t doing. I can be empathetic but that doesn’t change the need for best safety practices. APE and the like have never understood this. They or their kids need to go to school NOW so anyone advOcating for safety measures is a crazy person getting in their way. Insert anecdotal story about cousin in GA or FL or TX. Nope. It doesn’t work that way. We have CDC guidance and best practices. Serious people take that seriously. Decision makers responsible fir the health and safety of 30,000 need to take that seriously. Even if you don’t. Safety trumps empathy. So very tired of people advocating for their current individual need vs. actual best practices. Thank gid for Smart Restart.

x1000 We are other parents who feel exactly the same way.

How do you know what she is advocating is actually safety? What is the safety gain from the improvements she is suggesting? Do you actually know? Does she actually know? hint - the answer is no. She is not a scientist or an HVAC specialist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

+2. I really wish I could switch places with one of those Smart Restart parents for just a day. Of my three children, two are doing fine, one has even elected to remain DL. But one of my children is failing everything. His/her life will be forever impacted by this pause in education at a crucial time in life. Those SR parents obviously aren't facing this situation and have no empathy for those of us who are.

Honestly. People are in difficult circumstances. Everyone knows that. Unfortunately, empathy won’t keep my kids safe from the virus. I’d like them to go to school. But 300-400 kids in a middle and a high school at one time requires a lot of safety planning APS isn’t doing. I can be empathetic but that doesn’t change the need for best safety practices. APE and the like have never understood this. They or their kids need to go to school NOW so anyone advOcating for safety measures is a crazy person getting in their way. Insert anecdotal story about cousin in GA or FL or TX. Nope. It doesn’t work that way. We have CDC guidance and best practices. Serious people take that seriously. Decision makers responsible fir the health and safety of 30,000 need to take that seriously. Even if you don’t. Safety trumps empathy. So very tired of people advocating for their current individual need vs. actual best practices. Thank gid for Smart Restart.

x1000 We are other parents who feel exactly the same way.

How do you know what she is advocating is actually safety? What is the safety gain from the improvements she is suggesting? Do you actually know? Does she actually know? hint - the answer is no. She is not a scientist or an HVAC specialist.

This group is advocating for more than ventilation. For testing and outdoor lunches. For basic practices that are addressed in the NEW CDC guidelines issued on Friday. Things that APS principals are not doing (see WMS and others) because central admin has given no coherent guidance. So yeah, they are trying to make it safer. Goes WELL beyond ventilation. And I’ll say it again. The Bozos responsible for ventilation in APS wanted to install expensive potentially dangerous ionizers. She knew enough to stop that. So I’ll take ANY OUTSIDE input grounded in research and evidence over the folks currently in charge of ventilation in APS. They are asserting confidence over things they known next to nothing about.

[Anonymous]

Why do people keep saying that the safe restart group is keeping APS from opening? Our opening timelines are in line with every other county that we border. I’m not a member of that group, but feel it’s one of those soundbites people have hung onto I to use to discredit them with the open schools now crowd. Guess what, your kids are going to have a saferin school experience because Of the work that group has done and hopefully the other practices are are asking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep saying that the safe restart group is keeping APS from opening? Our opening timelines are in line with every other county that we border. I’m not a member of that group, but feel it’s one of those soundbites people have hung onto I to use to discredit them with the open schools now crowd. Guess what, your kids are going to have a saferin school experience because Of the work that group has done and hopefully the other practices are are asking for.

True. Though APS and all the schools may have to adjust either their testing plans or their reopening dates for middle and high school I order to comply with the new CDC guidance. We are quite a way from the CDC “orange” zone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does no one question this bully? Her only credentials seem to be that she is loud, long-winded and creates colorful charts. She is a graphic artist and appears to have not been in the workforce for years, except for her invitation-making business.

^^ speaking of bullies

Her qualifications are on her LinkedIn. Sorry if public facts seem like bullying, but I am sick of her shutting down discussion. The way she refused to even entertain sharing how she came to her conclusions was weird. She makes broad, sweeping claims with pretty graphics (because she is a graphic artist) that are designed to make the reader believe the information is backed by solid science. It is not. She is well-intentioned, but a hack. And so many clueless sycophants encourage her to keep producing. She has a history of bullying on other topics in the past - in real life, not saying on social media.

I am not APE, but I don’t care for how she squelches discussion and sows fear.

What does her profession have to do with anything?

Feel free to challenge her points or question the data, but trying to tear her down because of her job is straight-up bullying.

Seems like you’re trying to silence her instead of addressing her points.

No one can challenge her analysis because she refuses to share it, and admit it involves certain assumptions on her part that no one else can review and evaluate. Peer-review is the gold standard of scientific research, so when researchers refuse to allow peer review, their data is considered inherently suspect. The same is true here.

+1. The same is true in law where either side needs an expert witness (e.g. tort law, product liability, patent infringement, medical malpractice claims, etc.). Any expert who refuses to disclose their underlying data would be disqualified from testifying. Thus, to many parents, because SmartRestart won’t disclose their conclusions are simply not credible. I don’t even understand why this issue is debatable.