2021 USNews rankings

[Anonymous]

Since USN&WR decided two years ago that pell grant recipients numbers should be included, UVA was dropped below Michigan but few understand that UVA has no control over the no. of pell grant students it accepts. Read Pell Grant in wiki if you don't understand. UVA was no. 1, 2 (tied with Berkeley) or three, with UCLA and Berkeley in the lead for 27 years until the pell grant issue was introduced. Now it's no. 4 for the last two years for "Top public universities" by U.S. New&World Report. The only reason that Michigan is now above it is due to the inclusion of the "new" pell grant category, a category no school can control. Michigan has more poor residents per capita than UVA, etc.

Michigan is above UVA because it is a better school. UVA will be out of top 30 in few years.

Ah, the usual DCUM love for Michigan and hate for UVA. Never gets old. UVA moved UP in this year's ranking, so your trend prediction took a hit. And do you want your kid to be another number in the great sea of 31,000 undergrads at Michigan. No thanks. But you're a UMD grad, so what else would we expect. You wish you could have gone to Michigan or UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

This is astute. Adding pell grant recipients made this list pure bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

They were looking at the right ranking. Florida is 30 and UVA 26th. If you want to look at the public schools only, then yes, UVA is only 2 spots ahead of Florida. Schools can do things that affect Pell grant applications. They can recruit more in less affluent school districts. They can accept more people from less affluent areas (which might lower overall admitted stats). UVA already gives significant admission advantages to certain minorities (blacks and Hispanics). They can avoid doing ED (which has wealthier applicants).

Pretty sure UVA has ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard
Yale, Stanford
MIT
rest of the Ivies
Duke
Chicago

Nobody really gives a damn about Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, etc. at the undergraduate level. Everyone knows status-obsessed families outside of the Ivy Plus schools were rejected from all of them. Not cream of the crop.

+1. Only striver mediocrities obsess over this crap. The elites will always be elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

They were looking at the right ranking. Florida is 30 and UVA 26th. If you want to look at the public schools only, then yes, UVA is only 2 spots ahead of Florida. Schools can do things that affect Pell grant applications. They can recruit more in less affluent school districts. They can accept more people from less affluent areas (which might lower overall admitted stats). UVA already gives significant admission advantages to certain minorities (blacks and Hispanics). They can avoid doing ED (which has wealthier applicants).

Translation: Recruit dumb kids from crappy schools with fake GPAs and make SAT/ACT optional.

Outcome: The college is WORSE not better, all for a totally pointless ranking racket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

This is astute. Adding pell grant recipients made this list pure bullshit.

News Flash: it was ALWAYS bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard
Yale, Stanford
MIT
rest of the Ivies
Duke
Chicago

Nobody really gives a damn about Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, etc. at the undergraduate level. Everyone knows status-obsessed families outside of the Ivy Plus schools were rejected from all of them. Not cream of the crop.

+1. Only striver mediocrities obsess over this crap. The elites will always be elite.

And you, sweet girl, won't be among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

They were looking at the right ranking. Florida is 30 and UVA 26th. If you want to look at the public schools only, then yes, UVA is only 2 spots ahead of Florida. Schools can do things that affect Pell grant applications. They can recruit more in less affluent school districts. They can accept more people from less affluent areas (which might lower overall admitted stats). UVA already gives significant admission advantages to certain minorities (blacks and Hispanics). They can avoid doing ED (which has wealthier applicants).

Translation: Recruit dumb kids from crappy schools with fake GPAs and make SAT/ACT optional.

Outcome: The college is WORSE not better, all for a totally pointless ranking racket.

Most of this USNWR stuff leads to unintended consequences. Schools now want SAT/ACT optional so they can 1) accept URMs and likely Pell Grant kids without it impacting their stats and 2) accept wealthy legacies to keep donations flowing without it impacting their stats. The new USNWR rating criteria for debt and percentage with debt will likely lead schools to accept even higher income students who don't need to apply for aid (and don't need to submit SAT/ACT if they are no good since that is optional).

The focus on class sizes incented schools to set up class sizes with the 20 person cutoff, even if that made it more difficult for kids to get those classes. It goes on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

They were looking at the right ranking. Florida is 30 and UVA 26th. If you want to look at the public schools only, then yes, UVA is only 2 spots ahead of Florida. Schools can do things that affect Pell grant applications. They can recruit more in less affluent school districts. They can accept more people from less affluent areas (which might lower overall admitted stats). UVA already gives significant admission advantages to certain minorities (blacks and Hispanics). They can avoid doing ED (which has wealthier applicants).

Translation: Recruit dumb kids from crappy schools with fake GPAs and make SAT/ACT optional.

Outcome: The college is WORSE not better, all for a totally pointless ranking racket.

Most of this USNWR stuff leads to unintended consequences. Schools now want SAT/ACT optional so they can 1) accept URMs and likely Pell Grant kids without it impacting their stats and 2) accept wealthy legacies to keep donations flowing without it impacting their stats. The new USNWR rating criteria for debt and percentage with debt will likely lead schools to accept even higher income students who don't need to apply for aid (and don't need to submit SAT/ACT if they are no good since that is optional).

The focus on class sizes incented schools to set up class sizes with the 20 person cutoff, even if that made it more difficult for kids to get those classes. It goes on and on.

You missed the playbook to climb in the rankings. USNWR still rates on standardized scores and class rank. Schools like Vanderbilt noticed that its applicant base tends to only have about 1/4 (27.4% to be precise) supplying class rank. The implication is you can focus on accepting the high standardized score kids without worrying about class rank for 3/4 of your enrolled class. Optimize standardize scores accordingly. Need a lower acceptance rate (I know this no longer counts)? Push applications even to those with no hope of being accepted so you can reject them (Chicago, Tulane). Count incomplete applications. Need to raise your numbers but still fill seats? Have Spring admissions and accept more internationals whose scores don't have to count for USNWR (Northeastern). Need higher donation rate? Exclude alumni who are findable but you know won't donate from the denominator (Berkeley).

[Anonymous]

Eye opening read:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-college-rankings-0828-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the focus on UVA on DCUM, it ends up four insignificant places in front of the University Florida in this rating. Since USNWR added the Pell grant metrics, it really has brought a bunch of schools, particularly the UCs, up the rankings.

You're looking at the wrong ranking. All college counselors know that public and private universities cannot be compared - they have different missions to their states, hence, agricultural offerings at VA Tech, etc. andin-state v. OOS issues. The correct USN&WR rating for UVA is the "Top Public Schools" where UVA comes in no. 4 after UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan. For 27 years UVA was no. 2 and sometimes no. 1 public, always above Michigan. When USN&WR started incorporating Pell Grant recipients as a criterion to be looked at, UVA dropped to No. 4 because Michigan has more Pell Grant recipients. But if you know anything about Pell Grants, you know that UVA and the other schools have no ability to affect their Pell Grant numbers since that is a function of the state's populace. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public. If a school is in a wealthier state per capita, their Pell Grant recipient numbers will necessarily be lower.

They were looking at the right ranking. Florida is 30 and UVA 26th. If you want to look at the public schools only, then yes, UVA is only 2 spots ahead of Florida. Schools can do things that affect Pell grant applications. They can recruit more in less affluent school districts. They can accept more people from less affluent areas (which might lower overall admitted stats). UVA already gives significant admission advantages to certain minorities (blacks and Hispanics). They can avoid doing ED (which has wealthier applicants).

Translation: Recruit dumb kids from crappy schools with fake GPAs and make SAT/ACT optional.

Outcome: The college is WORSE not better, all for a totally pointless ranking racket.

You are a terrible person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard
Yale, Stanford
MIT
rest of the Ivies
Duke
Chicago

Nobody really gives a damn about Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, etc. at the undergraduate level. Everyone knows status-obsessed families outside of the Ivy Plus schools were rejected from all of them. Not cream of the crop.

+1. Only striver mediocrities obsess over this crap. The elites will always be elite.

🙄

[Anonymous]

Duke is no better than Hopkins, Vanderbilt, etc.

[Anonymous]

Also Cornell shouldn't be lumped in with the rest of the Ivies. This also applies to Dartmouth and Brown to some degree as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard
Yale, Stanford
MIT
rest of the Ivies
Duke
Chicago

Nobody really gives a damn about Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, etc. at the undergraduate level. Everyone knows status-obsessed families outside of the Ivy Plus schools were rejected from all of them. Not cream of the crop.

+1. Only striver mediocrities obsess over this crap. The elites will always be elite.

+100. This is America. We are not about striving to be better than your parents or pulling yourself up. America is about knowing your place and staying there.