Guests in the condo pool. Call the police?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She was HOA and asked the family to stop the party. They refused. So, yes, next step is the police. We don't know the background to any of this.

The police do not work for the Homeowners' Association.

They work for the County and enforce county laws and I suppose state laws. Not Homeowner Association rules.

[Anonymous]

https://hillcrestmgmt.com/can-police-enforce-hoa-rules/

When your neighbor is causing trouble

Can police enforce HOA rules? If the behavior is not illegal, the answer is “no”. Here’s what to do if your HOA is not enforcing association rules. In either case, whether your neighbor is doing something illegal or simply violating an association rule, document and gather proof. Your HOA or property management company will not send violation letters based on hearsay, and police cannot do much without evidence.

If you know someone is doing something illegal, call the police. If a homeowner is selling drugs or partying too loudly or violently, call the police as soon as you can. Take photos or a video, or get them there while it is happening. The mistake homeowners often make is calling the HOA first, but this will slow down the process. It is not an association’s or property manager’s responsibility to resolve illegal issues, or to call the police on something they weren’t there to witness. Further, your association board or property management is not likely to pick sides, as this tends to make things worse.

If you see something, say something. If you feel your safety is at risk or you are uncomfortable, call the police. That is what they are there for. And go to your property management company when someone violates a rule, bylaw, or declaration. But they aren’t likely to come out if your neighbor’s noise is bothering you. According to HOAleader.com, Joe Winkler, vice president of marketing at Keystone Pacific Property Management in Irvine, CA, points out,

“It’s very dangerous to mix up the HOA’s authority with the police department’s authority.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus.

It is absolutely not the job of (armed BTW) police officers to enforce **HOA rules**.

If the HOA makes rules, it is the job of the HOA to figure out a way to enforce them. If too many people are violating the rules on guests in the pool, then the HOA needs to hire staff to monitor, or put up cameras and send out letters, or whatever. Figure it out. Absolutely wrong for the police to get involved in reading HOA bylaws and trying to interpret them. Those cops were in the wrong. They should have said "No evidence of a crime here" and left -- it was not a police matter.

Trespassing is a police matter if you call the police and tell them that someone is trespassing. Now, does some HOA hen have the authority to trespass you from the pool? I have no idea. It does seem absurd that some HOA hen would involve the police over some type of hoa offense. I can kind of empathize because my hoa threatened to have me locked up

They were guests of a resident so not trespassing.

If there are HOA rules concerning the *number* of guests allowed, then that is a matter for the HOA to enforce however the HOA wants to enforce it. But the police aren't their private enforcement squad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus.

It is absolutely not the job of (armed BTW) police officers to enforce **HOA rules**.

If the HOA makes rules, it is the job of the HOA to figure out a way to enforce them. If too many people are violating the rules on guests in the pool, then the HOA needs to hire staff to monitor, or put up cameras and send out letters, or whatever. Figure it out. Absolutely wrong for the police to get involved in reading HOA bylaws and trying to interpret them. Those cops were in the wrong. They should have said "No evidence of a crime here" and left -- it was not a police matter.

Trespassing is a police matter if you call the police and tell them that someone is trespassing. Now, does some HOA hen have the authority to trespass you from the pool? I have no idea. It does seem absurd that some HOA hen would involve the police over some type of hoa offense. I can kind of empathize because my hoa threatened to have me locked up

They were guests of a resident so not trespassing.

If there are HOA rules concerning the *number* of guests allowed, then that is a matter for the HOA to enforce however the HOA wants to enforce it. But the police aren't their private enforcement squad.

I could see an argument that they were trespassing. If the condo owner did not properly register the party in advance and pay for each guest, then the people would be there without permission, and therefore be trespassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I could see an argument that they were trespassing. If the condo owner did not properly register the party in advance and pay for each guest, then the people would be there without permission, and therefore be trespassing.

I don't think that is the definition of trespass in the state of Maryland as it concerns common areas of a condominium which is owned by the resident who has invited guests.

That's why the condo association has to have HOA rules. There's no law governing how many people can use the common areas so they have to make up their own rules and enforce their own rules.

Now if a stranger came into the common cares, uninvited by a homeowner, that would be trespassing and a matter for police.

But failure to be properly registered by a homeowner? Not a police matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I could see an argument that they were trespassing. If the condo owner did not properly register the party in advance and pay for each guest, then the people would be there without permission, and therefore be trespassing.

I don't think that is the definition of trespass in the state of Maryland as it concerns common areas of a condominium which is owned by the resident who has invited guests.

That's why the condo association has to have HOA rules. There's no law governing how many people can use the common areas so they have to make up their own rules and enforce their own rules.

Now if a stranger came into the common cares, uninvited by a homeowner, that would be trespassing and a matter for police.

But failure to be properly registered by a homeowner? Not a police matter.

A pool area is different from common areas like a lobby. A pool has rules and restrictions for safety reasons. Typically, associations have limits on numbers of guests at one time and parties must be reserved in advance so that the pool knows to have enough lifeguards and other staff.

So, if the condo owner did not make the proper arrangements, then the people are not allowed to be there, even if they were invited by the homeowner. It is trespassing to be where one is not permitted to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus.

It is absolutely not the job of (armed BTW) police officers to enforce **HOA rules**.

If the HOA makes rules, it is the job of the HOA to figure out a way to enforce them. If too many people are violating the rules on guests in the pool, then the HOA needs to hire staff to monitor, or put up cameras and send out letters, or whatever. Figure it out. Absolutely wrong for the police to get involved in reading HOA bylaws and trying to interpret them. Those cops were in the wrong. They should have said "No evidence of a crime here" and left -- it was not a police matter.

Trespassing is a police matter if you call the police and tell them that someone is trespassing. Now, does some HOA hen have the authority to trespass you from the pool? I have no idea. It does seem absurd that some HOA hen would involve the police over some type of hoa offense. I can kind of empathize because my hoa threatened to have me locked up

They were guests of a resident so not trespassing.

If there are HOA rules concerning the *number* of guests allowed, then that is a matter for the HOA to enforce however the HOA wants to enforce it. But the police aren't their private enforcement squad.

Who says that the guests are authorized to be there. What if the resident had pool privileges revoked and then goes to the pool with several guests? What do the lifeguards do when they refuse to leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She was HOA and asked the family to stop the party. They refused. So, yes, next step is the police. We don't know the background to any of this.

Think about some other HOA rules. Let's say I painted my house the wrong color. Do the police need to arrest me?

These are civil issues. We have a whole separate court system for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I could see an argument that they were trespassing. If the condo owner did not properly register the party in advance and pay for each guest, then the people would be there without permission, and therefore be trespassing.

I don't think that is the definition of trespass in the state of Maryland as it concerns common areas of a condominium which is owned by the resident who has invited guests.

That's why the condo association has to have HOA rules. There's no law governing how many people can use the common areas so they have to make up their own rules and enforce their own rules.

Now if a stranger came into the common cares, uninvited by a homeowner, that would be trespassing and a matter for police.

But failure to be properly registered by a homeowner? Not a police matter.

Never mind all of that, you can’t even be officially trespassing in a criminal complaint until you’ve been served with a written notice of trespass, and a copy of that notice is on file. That requires you be told to leave on a prior occasion, and issued a letter of trespass afterwards. Then you have to be found on the property at a subsequent occasion. Only then can trespass become a criminal complaint.

[Anonymous]

Some of you are making up entire bits of this incident.
Number of guests
Fees
Registration of guests
Pool privileges
You made up all of this.
Get a life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We rent, and at our pool, tenants have to buy guest passes for each non-tenant using the pool, and the number of those guests are limited to 2 per unit at a time.
Lifeguards are tasked with enforcing this rule.
I do think calling the cops is an overkill, but I can totally see why other pool patrons were less than happy with this huge group using the pool without proper authorization.

So can any other rational person.

+1

And cries of racism are obnoxious and self-serving

- signed, a non-White person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We rent, and at our pool, tenants have to buy guest passes for each non-tenant using the pool, and the number of those guests are limited to 2 per unit at a time.
Lifeguards are tasked with enforcing this rule.
I do think calling the cops is an overkill, but I can totally see why other pool patrons were less than happy with this huge group using the pool without proper authorization.

So can any other rational person.

+1

And cries of racism are obnoxious and self-serving

- signed, a non-White person

They're used to excuse bad behavior.....it's tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Who says that the guests are authorized to be there. What if the resident had pool privileges revoked and then goes to the pool with several guests? What do the lifeguards do when they refuse to leave?

These are not criminal matters. They are matters for the HOA to deal with and enforce.

My private pool has rules saying you can't run near the pool. If people violate that rule, they get a warning from the lifeguard. If they continue to violate that rule despite warnings, they could lose their membership. No one calls the police.

If they lose their membership, and continue to come to the pool somehow despite not being a member anymore, at that point I could see calling the cops for trespassing if given proper prior notice. But that's nothing like calling the cops for the first violation of private rules.

It's not a crime to fail to obey the rules of your HOA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who says that the guests are authorized to be there. What if the resident had pool privileges revoked and then goes to the pool with several guests? What do the lifeguards do when they refuse to leave?

These are not criminal matters. They are matters for the HOA to deal with and enforce.

My private pool has rules saying you can't run near the pool. If people violate that rule, they get a warning from the lifeguard. If they continue to violate that rule despite warnings, they could lose their membership. No one calls the police.

If they lose their membership, and continue to come to the pool somehow despite not being a member anymore, at that point I could see calling the cops for trespassing if given proper prior notice. But that's nothing like calling the cops for the first violation of private rules.

It's not a crime to fail to obey the rules of your HOA.

If someone is not authorized to be on private property and they refuse to leave, one can call the police to deal with the person. The pool is privately owned by the condo owners: it is not open to the public.

My neighborhood pool has problems with young teens/tweens trying to walk in even though they are not members. They have been asked to leave and if they don’t, the police have been called. It’s a group of white kids doing this, so there is no racism involved on the part of the diverse staff and membership of the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus.

It is absolutely not the job of (armed BTW) police officers to enforce **HOA rules**.

If the HOA makes rules, it is the job of the HOA to figure out a way to enforce them. If too many people are violating the rules on guests in the pool, then the HOA needs to hire staff to monitor, or put up cameras and send out letters, or whatever. Figure it out. Absolutely wrong for the police to get involved in reading HOA bylaws and trying to interpret them. Those cops were in the wrong. They should have said "No evidence of a crime here" and left -- it was not a police matter.

Trespassing is a police matter if you call the police and tell them that someone is trespassing. Now, does some HOA hen have the authority to trespass you from the pool? I have no idea. It does seem absurd that some HOA hen would involve the police over some type of hoa offense. I can kind of empathize because my hoa threatened to have me locked up

They were guests of a resident so not trespassing.

If there are HOA rules concerning the *number* of guests allowed, then that is a matter for the HOA to enforce however the HOA wants to enforce it. But the police aren't their private enforcement squad.

New poster here. Of course different condos have different rules, but condos that allows unlimited # of guests in common areas is rare. More so when the common area in question is a pool. Unless of course, this is worked out in advance.

Few of us were there so we don't know the facts, but based on that fb page it doesn't sound like no one could produce a party permit or guest pool passes. Throwing a party for 30+ people is not cool, and I believe those those people were trespassing.

Trespassing IS a police matter; I would have called the police also on 30+ random people at my private property.