Leaving DC for a lower COL area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What types of jobs are we talking about here? What are these jobs that are only available in DC?
Some are saying that even if they find a new job outside of DC, their career will be over.
I'm really curious to know what those jobs are.

Two Fed household here. Impossible for us to leave D.C. and have both of us stay in the same field.

This is why I always encourage young people to be careful what they wish for when they take that first dc-centric job.

Sometimes it's just the best alternative we have. The non-DC jobs I was offered in the nonprofit sector after grad school paid 50% less than my fed job and one didn't even offer health insurance; consulting paid less at my level and was 75% travel. I chose my career field when I was young, healthy, and single, a life of travel sounded awesome, and I only had to make enough to rent a room; things changed between 21 and 29 and I could only walk through the doors left open.

I don't get why people on this forum seem to think anyone should be able to move wherever they want and find a job. Do most people they know actually do that? The only people I know who've managed it are doctors and nurses, even the lawyers and engineers i know have struggled to find work in new places if they are not moving for a job.

I don't think anyone should be able to move anywhere and find a job. I know there are some jobs that are particular to DC. I am responding to the people who seem to believe that NO ONE can leave DC because otherwise they won't be able to work.

1. People make tradeoffs. Sometimes you do take a job that pays less because you want to be somewhere else.

2. Many many many many people are working in the sorts of jobs that can be found in other cities. Not just NYC, SF, or LA - but all over the place.

3. If YOU can't leave DC for whatever reason, then fine. But I see so many people discouraging those who CAN leave from doing so because jobs, free museums, and everywhere else is just full of boring Trump supporting hicks. It is such a weird, dumb, provincial way to see the world. And frankly I find it disturbing to think some of those people could be setting policy for the whole country, given how little they seem to know about what goes on outside the District.

4. I left DC. I live in another small, lovely city now. People here have jobs. People here have nice houses. I'm here to tell you: it's possible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The underlying issue here is that DC neighborhoods generally suck compared to nice neighborhoods in other cities. Sure, the prices are inflated for economic reasons but there isn’t a single neighborhood with the overall appeal of Roland Park in Baltimore, the Fan in Richmond, Shadyside in Pittsburgh, Outremont in Montreal, the Louisville Highlands, the Back Bay in Boston, any number of NYC neighborhoods, etc.

Deep down, everyone in DC knows this, which is why some get so incredibly defensive when other areas, especially those with lower COLs, are identified as alternatives. They are so afraid that the emperor’s lack of clothes will be openly discussed.

Shaker Heights - Cleveland

You're arguing that these single, solitary areas in each major city are better than brilliant neighborhoods in D.C.? And yes lol, I'd argue that Capital Hill, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Georgetown, and the Wharf far above surpass Roland Park/the Fan/Shadyside/Shaker Heights. For various reasons but the collective whole of D.C. can't be matched unless we're talking about NYC/SF/Montreal.

Enjoy Cleveland though.

There are no brilliant neighborhoods in DC with a great urban fabric. None. Each of the places you mentioned has one or more fatal flaws.

Cleveland is a really great town. I really do enjoy Cleveland, thank you.

[Anonymous]

We re-located. We were in lucky position in terms of being self-employed w.out need to be located in DC.

We chose Nashville area. Our private school tuitions are about 25% less than DC for schools we think are the equal of DC privates. Our house -- it's hard to make apples to apples comparison but I think we saved around 30% relative to comparable housing.

Since housing and private school tuition were some of our biggest expenses, we feel like we came out ahead.

I like DC a lot but on our income it felt pinched to stay in DC. I think DC is great.

For our circumstances, it was a very good move.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

PP here. I never said what you're claiming above. This was my first comment, and I was simply responding to the PP who described DC people as "bland AF." I agree lots of places have interesting people.

Where do you live? Your description doesn't sound like most small towns I know, where the economies are struggling, and there are other problems as a result.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

PP here. I never said what you're claiming above. This was my first comment, and I was simply responding to the PP who described DC people as "bland AF." I agree lots of places have interesting people.

Where do you live? Your description doesn't sound like most small towns I know, where the economies are struggling, and there are other problems as a result.

I am in a small city, not a small town. There are a lot of cities across the country that don't in any way meet the stereotype you see people promoting in DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

You're shocked people live like this when you're posting on a forum labelled 'D.C. Urban'. Seriously? This post is about the city of D.C. not the hinterlands of Virginia or Maryland.

What? It's well known that posters on this forum live all over the place. Most are DC area, and that is a huge area. I see just as many posters posting about living in Rockville or NOVA as I do about living in DC proper. You're really arrogant to create this artificial divide between DC posters. The threads are about all of DC region, not Logan Circle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

12 percent of DC residents walk to work
38 percent of households don’t have cars
37 percent of residents take public transportation - I fall in this category and it’s far from the 5-10 percent you claimed.


MORE DC residents than NYers walk to work. NY is at 10 percent walking to work

How old are some of you?

Those are quotes for DC specific. We are talking about metro areas. You'd probably find comparable statistics if comparing strictly the urban core / downtown of many metro areas. 12% of DC metro area does not walk to work. It'd be impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

PP here. I never said what you're claiming above. This was my first comment, and I was simply responding to the PP who described DC people as "bland AF." I agree lots of places have interesting people.

Where do you live? Your description doesn't sound like most small towns I know, where the economies are struggling, and there are other problems as a result.

I am in a small city, not a small town. There are a lot of cities across the country that don't in any way meet the stereotype you see people promoting in DCUM.

PP. I stand corrected, I thought you said a small town but you said a small city (are you the Nashville poster? Not my cup of tea, but YMMV).

I do stand by my comments with respect to small towns; these aren't stereotypes re: their economies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What types of jobs are we talking about here? What are these jobs that are only available in DC?
Some are saying that even if they find a new job outside of DC, their career will be over.
I'm really curious to know what those jobs are.

Two Fed household here. Impossible for us to leave D.C. and have both of us stay in the same field.

This is why I always encourage young people to be careful what they wish for when they take that first dc-centric job.

seriously.

also, not a great reflection on your professional skills if the federal government is literally the only employer you're capable of working for. Yiiiikes; can't imagine living that way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

PP here. I never said what you're claiming above. This was my first comment, and I was simply responding to the PP who described DC people as "bland AF." I agree lots of places have interesting people.

Where do you live? Your description doesn't sound like most small towns I know, where the economies are struggling, and there are other problems as a result.

I am in a small city, not a small town. There are a lot of cities across the country that don't in any way meet the stereotype you see people promoting in DCUM.

PP. I stand corrected, I thought you said a small town but you said a small city (are you the Nashville poster? Not my cup of tea, but YMMV).

I do stand by my comments with respect to small towns; these aren't stereotypes re: their economies.

No, not Nashville. A different small city. One with a lot of economic growth.

I don't know enough about small towns to speak knowledgeably about how it is to move from DC to one of them. We have small towns near my city that act basically as extensions of the metro area. I'd imagine there are a lot of those sorts of places - you live in the town but work in the neighboring city.

[Anonymous]

I did this 9 years ago, to a smallish university town. I wouldn't move back to DC for anything. I could never afford the house and schools comparable to what I have now without a biglaw partner's salary in DC, and I wanted more of a family-focused life.

I have had several different job opportunities since moving here. I don't think it has been difficult at all to find well-paid work. I am sure that differs place to place, but this is hardly a blossoming economy and it is still fairly easy for qualified people to find good jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

You keep think this is true, but it’s not. Most of the talent and intellect in this country is located in big cities. Sad, but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

12 percent of DC residents walk to work
38 percent of households don’t have cars
37 percent of residents take public transportation - I fall in this category and it’s far from the 5-10 percent you claimed.


MORE DC residents than NYers walk to work. NY is at 10 percent walking to work

How old are some of you?

Those are quotes for DC specific. We are talking about metro areas. You'd probably find comparable statistics if comparing strictly the urban core / downtown of many metro areas. 12% of DC metro area does not walk to work. It'd be impossible.

Right. This a DC URBAN website and the title of the post is about moving from DC. Not moving from ashburn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)

You keep think this is true, but it’s not. Most of the talent and intellect in this country is located in big cities. Sad, but true.

All of you are so ignorant

Google where the Fortune 500 companies are I'll wait

Here you go

New York NY 42
Houston TX 24
Dallas TX 12
Atlanta GA 10
Minneapolis MN 10
Chicago IL 9
St. Louis MO 8
San Francisco CA 7
Charlotte NC 6
Cincinnati OH 6
Columbus OH 6
Milwaukee WI 6
Englewood CO 5
Irving TX 5
Los Angeles CA 5
Omaha NE 5
Philadelphia PA 5
Pittsburgh PA 5
Richmond VA 5

All of these places are great places to live and in many you can be just as successful for half the cost or more vs DC

It's disturbing to me that anyone that isn't a liberal progressive is somehow less than for many of you.

That's a common knock on democrats in general. Yall need to work on that.

DC is the only place in the country that is so imbalanced politically yall need to get out of your bubbles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

12 percent of DC residents walk to work
38 percent of households don’t have cars
37 percent of residents take public transportation - I fall in this category and it’s far from the 5-10 percent you claimed.


MORE DC residents than NYers walk to work. NY is at 10 percent walking to work

How old are some of you?

Those are quotes for DC specific. We are talking about metro areas. You'd probably find comparable statistics if comparing strictly the urban core / downtown of many metro areas. 12% of DC metro area does not walk to work. It'd be impossible.

Right. This a DC URBAN website and the title of the post is about moving from DC. Not moving from ashburn.

The website name is DC Urban Moms and Dads. Are you a mom or a dad too? Somehow I have a feeling you're not. Because you're probably a kid.

I have news for you. Ashburn is part of DC. Just as much as Logan Circle is. Ashburn as we know it wouldn't exist if it weren't for DC. It's a suburb of Washington, DC. It's totally fair to consider it part of DC when talking about moving from one metro area to another.