Leaving DC for a lower COL area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

You know, 90% of the DC metro area is basically sprawl. 95% of people in all these cities live similarly enough. Day to day. Work, home, school, some stuff on the weekends, and in a very suburban environment.

The cohort that lives in nice old urban or old fashioned suburban areas like Chevy Chase or Takoma Park or NW DC is a very small minority of the larger DC region population. And there are equivalents in all the other cities too.

dc metro, sure. But dc? NO.

Exactly this. D.C. has firm boundaries and a small footprint. Just like San Francisco which is why prices are what they are.

+1. This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

I prefer to think of them as intelligent people with a myriad of experiences and opinions. I was so glad to get out of the deep South where every conversation is Church or football. When I walk out my door in D.C. I can talk to a Senator's COS or a Defense official or a Smithsonian curator or run into my SCOTUS justice (which has happened).

I consider none of those individual's bland and I'm grateful for all the people who enrich my life here - culturally, personally, and professionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What types of jobs are we talking about here? What are these jobs that are only available in DC?
Some are saying that even if they find a new job outside of DC, their career will be over.
I'm really curious to know what those jobs are.

Two Fed household here. Impossible for us to leave D.C. and have both of us stay in the same field.

This is why I always encourage young people to be careful what they wish for when they take that first dc-centric job.

Sometimes it's just the best alternative we have. The non-DC jobs I was offered in the nonprofit sector after grad school paid 50% less than my fed job and one didn't even offer health insurance; consulting paid less at my level and was 75% travel. I chose my career field when I was young, healthy, and single, a life of travel sounded awesome, and I only had to make enough to rent a room; things changed between 21 and 29 and I could only walk through the doors left open.

I don't get why people on this forum seem to think anyone should be able to move wherever they want and find a job. Do most people they know actually do that? The only people I know who've managed it are doctors and nurses, even the lawyers and engineers i know have struggled to find work in new places if they are not moving for a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

You're shocked people live like this when you're posting on a forum labelled 'D.C. Urban'. Seriously? This post is about the city of D.C. not the hinterlands of Virginia or Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

I prefer to think of them as intelligent people with a myriad of experiences and opinions. I was so glad to get out of the deep South where every conversation is Church or football. When I walk out my door in D.C. I can talk to a Senator's COS or a Defense official or a Smithsonian curator or run into my SCOTUS justice (which has happened).

I consider none of those individual's bland and I'm grateful for all the people who enrich my life here - culturally, personally, and professionally.

You have your very own SCOTUS justice? Does everyone who lives in DC proper get issued one of those?! Wow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

You're shocked people live like this when you're posting on a forum labelled 'D.C. Urban'. Seriously? This post is about the city of D.C. not the hinterlands of Virginia or Maryland.

+100000. Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

You're shocked people live like this when you're posting on a forum labelled 'D.C. Urban'. Seriously? This post is about the city of D.C. not the hinterlands of Virginia or Maryland.

+100000. Exactly.

+2. Not to mention PP first referenced DC neighborhoods relative to those in other cities as having a "manufactured cool" etc., but then is somehow aghast when the topic stays on DC itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

If you find the people in one of the most educated cities in the US to be “bland AF,” this likely says something about your intelligence. While DC may not have as thriving of an arts scene as a larger city like NY, it does have an extremely educated and diverse population. I interact daily with people who have lived all over the world. I really don’t see how people here are any blander than say someone in Dallas, Texas. If you find people here bland then you should probably improve yourself and try and find a better job where you’ll have experienced more similar to many of us in DC who would not describe our friends and colleagues as bland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

I'm shocked at how blind posters like you are. How many people in DC actually live like this? Not that many 5-10% of the metro population, maybe? The vast majority of people live a suburban car oriented lifestyle or even if they take the subway to work it's long commutes still.

You talk about what works for you in your very specific urban context while totally ignoring that most people in DC can't live the way you do. And you pay a price for your lifestyle that is not affordable to many if not most people. Your ignorance is amazing, because your knowledge of DC stops at the borders of your neighborhood and you're using your very narrow context as a basis for comparison with other cities while ignoring the rest of the DC metro area where most people actually live.

12 percent of DC residents walk to work
38 percent of households don’t have cars
37 percent of residents take public transportation - I fall in this category and it’s far from the 5-10 percent you claimed.


MORE DC residents than NYers walk to work. NY is at 10 percent walking to work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with lower COL areas is that the job market is not as robust. Yes, "everybody" know someone who moved to Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee and found a good position and cheap housing but there is nowhere near the opportunities found in growing areas. Also, lower COL places tend to be insular. You are competing with people who went to local schools, married someone from there, and will never leave there. They pick their own when an opening occurs.

That's ...wrong on just about every level. Dallas and Houston are the same size as DC, with an even better economy, record low unemployment rate and much better COL. I've lived in both and wouldn't describe either as "insular." People are pouring in from other states. And the idea a company like Toyota or AT&T is picking executives based on the neighborhood they grew up in, that's just ludicrous.

SInce when are Dallas and Houston = Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee?

Dallas and Houston have incredible economies but are very hot and 100% sprawl. No charm, history, or walkability.

Yeah right. Dallas has Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Uptown ...areas with as much walkability as anything you'll find in the District. And several have a funkier vibe than the
manufactured cool of many gentrifying DC neighborhoods. And yeah ...it's hot. But you can also sit outside on the patio in February and don't have to dig out from a blizzard every other year.

You've named areas in Dallas that are much like Atlanta's Five Points/Virginia Highlands -- highly industrialized with a glut of retail/restaurants in one place but they aren't walkable communities with mixed-use density that including housing and amenities artfully imposed together. Basically those are the places you take an Uber to to bar hop for happy hour but you don't live on that street or next to that restaurant nor can you walk to those grocery stores (not unless you want to cross a parking lot which can fit a couple 100 cars easily first). In other words, the Whole Foods is in a shopping plaza.

Huge difference. Basically living there is nothing like D.C.

+1000000. PP obviously has never lived in a real city. Five points in Atlanta is a perfect example. You may be able to walk to bars and restaurants from your house. But on a daily basis walk to work, walk your kids to school and run 90% of your errands on foot? No way. Especially given the hot weather. Dallas is a city built around the automobile. Even in the areas in Dallas claiming to be walkable, the parking lots are HUGE which in itself demonstrates it’s not really a walkable area.

Whereas I live in DC and almost always walk to the grocery store, combo walk and bus to work, and only use my car on the weekend for an errand or going somewhere outside of DC. I can’t imagine many families in Dallas are only using their cars on the weekend.

Meh. You still live in DC, which is full of boring people who are bland AF.

As opposed to whom? Do you live in NY or LA, perhaps?

My DC neighbors work in a variety of pretty interesting professions. I assume you’re thinking everyone’s a fed, but on my block, there are people in medicine, finance, research, education, a museum director, etc. Really runs the gamut.

I live in a small city outside of DC and it's the same as in my neighborhood.

Stay in DC if you want to but you're being ridiculous if you think the "quality" of DC people is better than anywhere else. Lots of places have interesting people in them. No, not Supreme Court justices - that is unique to DC - but people who work in all these intellectual and creative fields. Many interesting people have left high cost cities, in fact, because it's too hard to keep yourself going in one of the more interesting professions. One reason my smaller city has such a good restaurant scene is that it's affordable enough that chefs can come experiment here. We have a great arts scene for largely the same reason. We have tons of writers here. (I am one of them.)