Deal is tremendously overcrowded - something is to give

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

Their "sacrifice" is that kids are attending classes in trailers, classes are over capacity, PK3 and PK4 has been taken away from those schools, and there's a complete lack of leadership on these issues. All so OOB students can be accomodated because, for whatever reason, they don't want to attend their local by-right school.

Seriously, check yourself.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get this. Wilson feeder system is overcrowded so it can’t be changed?

[Anonymous]

You know all I want is as many students who are likely to do well to be with my kids in Coolidge, Roosevelt and Cardozo as possible. I want that to work in the next 10 years. Things that make that less likely or undermine it are things I am going to oppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

Their "sacrifice" is that kids are attending classes in trailers, classes are over capacity, PK3 and PK4 has been taken away from those schools, and there's a complete lack of leadership on these issues. All so OOB students can be accomodated because, for whatever reason, they don't want to attend their local by-right school.

Seriously, check yourself.

There is no PK3 WOTP and never has been. And only Deal has trailers at this point. Let me guess - you just overpaid for an AU Park Colonial and are shocked to find out that the neighborhood upper schools are both crowded and diverse?

If you want to be an obnoxious WOTP parent and kick everyone else out you can.

But lots of WOTP parents disagree with you and more importantly politically it is likely a non starter.

But creating good EOTP schools in some manner has to be part of the solution for the overcrowding at Deal & Wilson.

And again since you appear to be uninformed I'll mention that there are currently lots of kids at Wilson and Deal from other parts of the city including a portion of the UMC kids you might presume are your neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know all I want is as many students who are likely to do well to be with my kids in Coolidge, Roosevelt and Cardozo as possible. I want that to work in the next 10 years. Things that make that less likely or undermine it are things I am going to oppose.

Yall are so funny look those areas are at least a generation or more of being decent. Again just move to an area that has good schools already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get this. Wilson feeder system is overcrowded so it can’t be changed?

No one is saying it can't be changed. However, no one can agree on how to resolve the issue - i.e., who wins and who loses.

This is always the point of contention in these voluminous threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get this. Wilson feeder system is overcrowded so it can’t be changed?

No one is saying it can't be changed. However, no one can agree on how to resolve the issue - i.e., who wins and who loses.

This is always the point of contention in these voluminous threads.

That's what I don't get. Nobody loses with a reborn Western High (location TBD). Every other suggestion seems to be contingent on people losing.

A new MS is needed EOTP AND a new HS is needed WOTP. Both of these things used to be there but were taken away a generation or two ago.

[Anonymous]

New HS needed WOTP is the logical and factual fallacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

WOTP parents sacrifice plenty already. For one thing, they are a major part of the tax engine that subsidizes the whole circus. The schools they send their kids to may be really good for DC, but would be mediocre in parts of Arlington, Fairfax and Montgomery.

[Anonymous]

There is no PK3 WOTP and never has been. And only Deal has trailers at this point. Let me guess - you just overpaid for an AU Park Colonial and are shocked to find out that the neighborhood upper schools are both crowded and diverse?

Anyone in the AU Park neighborhood who has ever witnessed what can happen between Wilson and the Tenley Metro on the average schooldays afternoon would not be shocked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New HS needed WOTP is the logical and factual fallacy.

That's just absurd. It's schools are the largest, at capacity, and have no more room for IB growth. Yet, despite all that, they are also the most popular within the system. The market is speaking loud and clear.

I'm just going to assume you are being intentionally obtuse and disengenuous about this for fits and giggles. It's all good.

[Anonymous]

There is no PK3 WOTP and never has been. And only Deal has trailers at this point. Let me guess - you just overpaid for an AU Park Colonial and are shocked to find out that the neighborhood upper schools are both crowded and diverse?

Key and Stoddert have trailers too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

WOTP parents sacrifice plenty already. For one thing, they are a major part of the tax engine that subsidizes the whole circus. The schools they send their kids to may be really good for DC, but would be mediocre in parts of Arlington, Fairfax and Montgomery.

That is just not true. WOTP schools are on PARR with the best of MoCo schools. Stop continuing this narrative. Look at the PARCC scores. Any difference in Wilson/Deal and The Ws can be explained by SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

Well why should WOTP parents not have to sacrifice a bit in this too? For what its worth I think the school system should be as fair as possible and benefit as many kids as possible and I live WOTP.

WOTP parents sacrifice plenty already. For one thing, they are a major part of the tax engine that subsidizes the whole circus. The schools they send their kids to may be really good for DC, but would be mediocre in parts of Arlington, Fairfax and Montgomery.

That is just not true. WOTP schools are on PARR with the best of MoCo schools. Stop continuing this narrative. Look at the PARCC scores. Any difference in Wilson/Deal and The Ws can be explained by SES.

Ward 3 is also no longer the sole economic engine of the city - it was for a good 30 years but other parts of the city have been growing dramatically and becoming much wealthier while Ward 3 has added very few additional residential units and has lost jobs with Intelsat and Fannie Mae moving and the retail in FH and TT are both struggling too. In fact the reason DC has been spending so much on infrastructure the last 10 years (including on Ward 3 schools) is because of all of the population and economic growth the city has seen. In other Wards.