Deal is tremendously overcrowded - something is to give

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

Maybe it would be easier to re-locate Rock Creek Park?

This was part of the silliness about Ellington - why is there this notion that the schools have to be WOTP to be good?

Schools WOTP are good because of the students and faculty not the location.

Wilson and Deal are not all white UMC schools - both are still quite diverse. With the gentrification going on EOTP duplicating the diversity at an EOTP MS & HS should not be that heavy of a lift but to do it white students who live EOTP will need to be moved to EOTP schools.

Academically, this notion is belied by Ellington and Hardy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but . . . none of the growth comes from Georgetown

Ward 2 is pretty big, Chief. So is Ward 3. Both growing rapidly, probably even more once the Amazon employees start looking at real estate.

Slightly OT, I agree with another poster who said re-zoning for new apartment buildings (with a required % of lower-income units) would be a logical way to attract more diversity in areas that need it; also would help justify City approval for building more DCPS capacity to relieve pressure on DCPS schools that are overcrowded. It would also provide practical avenues for middle-class families who wish to move into better school boundaries for their kids.

You want to build more high density housing in areas where the schools are already crowded? That makes no sense.

The OP must be a developer or from Greater Greater Washington. Oh, wait, they're just about the same thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

Maybe it would be easier to re-locate Rock Creek Park?

This was part of the silliness about Ellington - why is there this notion that the schools have to be WOTP to be good?

Schools WOTP are good because of the students and faculty not the location.

Wilson and Deal are not all white UMC schools - both are still quite diverse. With the gentrification going on EOTP duplicating the diversity at an EOTP MS & HS should not be that heavy of a lift but to do it white students who live EOTP will need to be moved to EOTP schools.

The geographic barrier requires that people either be A) upper class and living in that neighborhood or B) educated/engaged parents invested in furthering their child's education in order to get them enrolled and attending there... hence it weeds out the undesirable element that people are trying to avoid. This is why people will not attend an EOTP MS (unless, possibly, it is application-only?). So yes, it's a heavy lift to get this established. If you do it only by zoning you will not get enrollment, you will get flight of educated, engaged families out of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with 13:19.

These endless complaints about Ellington are as racist as they are classist. It's like you can't stand for poor kids from other parts of the city to have access to something nice, much less something nice in your backyard.

The more you spout this trash the less support you will find for your dream school to exclusively serve the 10% of students in DC schools who are white.

No Ellington supporter has ever been able to articulate why the school needs to be in Georgetown.

None.

It is almost as if the supporters have some insecurities and don't think the school could thrive outside of an elitist and mostly white neighborhood.

Righto! Ellington boosters cling to their little hill as a "prestige" Georgetown location.

No one has the heart to tell these geography scholars that they are located in an area called Burleith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with 13:19.

These endless complaints about Ellington are as racist as they are classist. It's like you can't stand for poor kids from other parts of the city to have access to something nice, much less something nice in your backyard.

The more you spout this trash the less support you will find for your dream school to exclusively serve the 10% of students in DC schools who are white.

No Ellington supporter has ever been able to articulate why the school needs to be in Georgetown.

None.

It is almost as if the supporters have some insecurities and don't think the school could thrive outside of an elitist and mostly white neighborhood.

Righto! Ellington boosters cling to their little hill as a "prestige" Georgetown location.

No one has the heart to tell these geography scholars that they are located in an area called Burleith.

The hideously over-budget Ellington building is Burleith's bling palace. The school must have hired a casino architect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Ellington should expand to middle school. That would take some of the crowding out of overenrolled middle schools, give new opportunities to kids who don't like their IB middle school, and help train kids so DESA doesn't need to take as many from outside the district.

2. Bancroft to MacFarland and Roosevelt, Oyster either also to MacFarland and Roosevelt or keep Adams and route it to Roosevelt. Want a dual-language school? Get the dual-language feeder pattern.

3. Shepherd and Lafayette to New North and Coolidge. For the people who will say there isn't enough room, make just 6th and 7th grades in New North and create an 8th grade academy in the massively underenrolled Coolidge HS. If and when we get to a point where so many IB families are sending their kids to New North and Coolidge that it's going to be overcrowded, we can have a big party and also redistrict at that point, possibly shifting a few schools to Brookland and Dunbar.

4. End OOB feeder rights. If you get into a school for elementary, you're there through 5th and you have to lottery for middle school; same thing if you get into a middle school via the lottery and want to continue on to HS. If DCPS wants to compromise, it could give a lottery preference for kids who attended a feeder school, but still only take as many kids as the school has room for.

5. If you enroll in a school as IB and you move somewhere else in the District, you can choose to stay the rest of the school year but after that you have to go to your IB school or do the lottery. No more principal's discretion and a lot more audits. If neighborhood schools are important, the priority should be for people who actually live in the neighborhood, not people who lived there at one point and now live somewhere else. Homeless children and kids in foster care of course have additional protections under federal law and may be able to stay when other kids could not.

Ellington doesn't "need to take" any students from outside the District. They turn District applicants away.

And for every student who officially is enrolled from outside DC and supposed to pay tuition, there are probably two or three who really live in Maryland but are residency fraudsters.

Even for the meritorious few non-DC families to pay tuition, those charges only cover a fraction of the cost. The rest is borne by DC's taxpayers, a free gift and subsidy to students and their families who don't even reside in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with 13:19.

These endless complaints about Ellington are as racist as they are classist. It's like you can't stand for poor kids from other parts of the city to have access to something nice, much less something nice in your backyard.

The more you spout this trash the less support you will find for your dream school to exclusively serve the 10% of students in DC schools who are white.

No Ellington supporter has ever been able to articulate why the school needs to be in Georgetown.

None.

It is almost as if the supporters have some insecurities and don't think the school could thrive outside of an elitist and mostly white neighborhood.

Righto! Ellington boosters cling to their little hill as a "prestige" Georgetown location.

No one has the heart to tell these geography scholars that they are located in an area called Burleith.

As a Burleith resident, my issue is that the DESA bigwings made their decision on an outdated 1990s mind set.

Did no one tell them that Georgetown is no longer important? The heart of arts in DC is NOT Georgetown. It's a sleepy neighborhood filled with elderly and irrelevant generational wealth, chain stores, and college students.

DESA would have been so much better in downtown DC. Their "neighbors" would have been corporations with deep pockets, Smithsonian curators, major media outlets, etc. We've been to a few performances at DESA and the theater is usually only 40% full. No one is trekking to our quiet neighborhood to watch these insanely talented high school students, aside from their immediate friends and families. These kids could have so much exposure (and $pon$or$hip) in a downtown location, in addition to avoiding the brutal cross-town commute.

It was such a shortsighted failure by all decision makers and frustrates me to no end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with 13:19.

These endless complaints about Ellington are as racist as they are classist. It's like you can't stand for poor kids from other parts of the city to have access to something nice, much less something nice in your backyard.

The more you spout this trash the less support you will find for your dream school to exclusively serve the 10% of students in DC schools who are white.

What are you talking about? That's bs. Wanting a neighborhood school is not racist or classist and NOBODY has ever said to shut down the DE program or concept.

If the DC powers that be had been smart, instead of renovating the Western High School building for Ellington, they should have moved it to the Jefferson Middle school site in SW. It's centrally located, right on the Metro (close to Waterfront and L'Enfant) and best of all, close by Arena Stage, the Anthem, etc.

But no, Ellington had to cling to its prestigious "Georgetown" location. Not central. Not Metro accessible. Not next to cultural venues. Not a good use of a needed general high school site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:wait, that part is in fact true. DC is growing and has more students but not where you'd put a "new Western" high school:
https://planning.dc.gov/publication/dc-forecasts

The large growth is Wards 1, 4, 6, 7 and 8.

https://planning.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/op/publication/attachments/Neighborhood%20Cluster%20Age%200-17.pdf

That may be where the growing population lives, but that is not necessarily where they attend school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

ppp is so funny again it's more I can't afford to live WOTP so lets create better options EOTP and weaken areas WOTP. People look life isn't fair if you want better schools move to the suburbs where you can afford to actually buy in a better school district

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - - - Petworth parents "not having Wilson as an option" does not mean those parents should go to Georgetown, or Palisades or Glover Park. They should be in Petworth, because the things you want in Georgetown should be in Petworth or Columbia Heights instead.

Those things already ARE in those neighborhoods. They are just woefully under-utilized by the UMC white Petworth and Columbia Heights contingent:
Cardozo
CHEC
Roosevelt
Coolidge

Four large facilities are not bursting at the seams, unlike Wilson.

I guarantee that another WOTP high school will be at full capacity the first day it opens. And hence why it should be built - it relieves overcrowding at Wilson, it provides a 2nd viable option for a large cohort of great students, and it opens up more options for OOB folks all over the city (freeing up seats at Banneker, SWW, etc).

The city has already built so much EOTP and the high SES families simply are not showing up. I don't know how this can be any clearer.

But what's the reason why they would come to your second high school west of Rock Creek Park?

Why do well-to-do, politically connected families in Hillcrest shlep their kids to Wilson and Duke Ellington everyday? Because they want their kids surrounded by a similar UMC cohort. They seem willing to make the sacrifice and drive across the city. In fact, we know many parents across the city are willing to make the drive because JKLMM and Deal/Wilson waitlists are so incredibly long.

UMC parents want an UMC cohort for their kids. Those in lower SES groups also wanted their kids surrounded by a higher SES cohort because they know it translates into more resources and better results for their own kid. There's an insane amount of demand for a rapidly shrinking amount of supply of WOTP seats. So our two options are: increase supply WOTP or block access to WOTP schools for families in other areas of the city. It's a binary choice. I'm of the opinion that people respond better to carrots than sticks, so I advocate building more WOTP in addition to building magnets or other specialized programs in other areas of the city.

Yes this is all true.

But the UMC cohort is growing in DC. And many of those folks don't live WOTP.

I know you can't create an UMC only cohort school but Wilson/Deal are not that today. Surely there is a creative and legal way to draw an EOTP boundary that incorporates the many neighborhoods with growing UMC numbers and simultaneously transition some of the lower middle class kids from those same neighborhoods to Deal/Wilson by changing who gets OOB slots?

This should be getting easier, not harder, to pull off.

But as the OP stated something has to give and it has to give soon because Wilson high school cannot handle 3200 students and that is the reality we are barreling towards.

If I understand you, you want to creat an UMC cohort EOTP and move the lower and middle class kids to Wilson rather than have them enjoy the benefits of that UMC cohort in their neighborhood school? Did I get that right?

Well there would still be an UMC cohort at at Wilson. The point was if it helps to get the SES mix right at the new EOTP school (and we are really talking about a new MS) then you continue to have access at Wilson/Deal. This should make such a change more politically palatable and allows Deal/Wilson to continue to be diverse. Optimally everyone will prefer to attend their neighborhood school, at least eventually. But until that happens make sure the kids who most benefit still have access to Deal/Wilson even if they are OOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wait, that part is in fact true. DC is growing and has more students but not where you'd put a "new Western" high school:
https://planning.dc.gov/publication/dc-forecasts

The large growth is Wards 1, 4, 6, 7 and 8.

https://planning.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/op/publication/attachments/Neighborhood%20Cluster%20Age%200-17.pdf

That may be where the growing population lives, but that is not necessarily where they attend school.

+1000

And - to be clear - that is expected growth on top of today's current student population. So while CCDC may have half the growth of Petworth, that graphic does not account for the fact that CCDC's feeder pattern is already way over-capacity. It's such a misleading and spurious argument by the PP who posted it.