Will daughters be drafted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the military should be the best fighting force it should be, and introduce women in measured, researched ways that support that and do not threaten effectiveness or cohesion. However, if a directive from above has determined that social engineering is the most important priority then yes, all women should sign up for selective service and go into combat if qualified. Forced birth control sounds a lot like 'controlling women's bodies" to me---incredibly invasive. That being said, you are government property when you are the military. You are subject to a separate legal code, you have to get constantly inoculated whether you like it or not, etc. so I imagine there is some room for intrusiveness in terms of pregnancies. Pregnancy is a huge problem on Navy ships; can only imagine how the hanky panky that leads to these pregnancies erodes relationships and stability from the families waiting back home. If women come in en masse as in a draft war footing, perhaps single sex units would be best.

But but but we just had a study meant to show women can fight in the same combat units as men and be effective. We spent millions of dollars on it! We just dictated women can be in all combat roles! Same sex units???

Love yhe flip flopping. Yay women can be all combat roles. What, selective service? But we are the weaker sex!

The Marine study did not come to this conclusion, but Carter overruled it as per the President's mandate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the military should be the best fighting force it should be, and introduce women in measured, researched ways that support that and do not threaten effectiveness or cohesion. However, if a directive from above has determined that social engineering is the most important priority then yes, all women should sign up for selective service and go into combat if qualified. Forced birth control sounds a lot like 'controlling women's bodies" to me---incredibly invasive. That being said, you are government property when you are the military. You are subject to a separate legal code, you have to get constantly inoculated whether you like it or not, etc. so I imagine there is some room for intrusiveness in terms of pregnancies. Pregnancy is a huge problem on Navy ships; can only imagine how the hanky panky that leads to these pregnancies erodes relationships and stability from the families waiting back home. If women come in en masse as in a draft war footing, perhaps single sex units would be best.

But but but we just had a study meant to show women can fight in the same combat units as men and be effective. We spent millions of dollars on it! We just dictated women can be in all combat roles! Same sex units???

Love yhe flip flopping. Yay women can be all combat roles. What, selective service? But we are the weaker sex!

The Marine study did not come to this conclusion, but Carter overruled it as per the President's mandate.

My point exactly. Despite all evidence to the contrary, the mandate of women in all combat roles as a measure of equality was pushed through. Feminists all over were rejoicing yesterday, until they were not once selective service was brought up.

[Anonymous]

I agree, and I consider myself a feminist. You can be for women's and men's rights and recognize there are differences that may one day be 'equalized'(ie technology) but don't put the cart before the horse.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I don't even consider myself a feminist as I consider men and women very fairly treated in this country and many others. So I guess I'm just a happy human being. I am grateful to feminists and civil rights proponents whose effort I enjoy today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the military should be the best fighting force it should be, and introduce women in measured, researched ways that support that and do not threaten effectiveness or cohesion. However, if a directive from above has determined that social engineering is the most important priority then yes, all women should sign up for selective service and go into combat if qualified. Forced birth control sounds a lot like 'controlling women's bodies" to me---incredibly invasive. That being said, you are government property when you are the military. You are subject to a separate legal code, you have to get constantly inoculated whether you like it or not, etc. so I imagine there is some room for intrusiveness in terms of pregnancies. Pregnancy is a huge problem on Navy ships; can only imagine how the hanky panky that leads to these pregnancies erodes relationships and stability from the families waiting back home. If women come in en masse as in a draft war footing, perhaps single sex units would be best.

But but but we just had a study meant to show women can fight in the same combat units as men and be effective. We spent millions of dollars on it! We just dictated women can be in all combat roles! Same sex units???

Love yhe flip flopping. Yay women can be all combat roles. What, selective service? But we are the weaker sex!

Different PP here. First of all, the studies meant to show women can fight in the same combat units as men are all based on women and men who volunteered. Circumstances in an all-volunteer army are very different than in an army with men and women who did not willingly choose to join.

Men and women in an all-volunteer army have made a decision to make a career in the military, so they have incentives to do well, to do what they have to do to be physically capable, and to follow the rules.

A draft changes things drastically because the military is dealing with a lot of people who do not want to be there -- a lot of 18-24 year olds who do not want to be there. That changes the nature of how willing or likely soldiers are to conforming to military code and culture.

I'm not saying women should not have to register for the draft. I'm saying that you are naive if you don't acknowledge that drafting women opens up a lot of issues and potential problems that have nothing to do with them being the weaker sex and way more to do with other realities of human nature and biology.

It will present challenges. I'm not saying those challenges are insurmountable, but we can't even begin to address them if we don't acknowledge them.

The Israeli army is not a good comparison. Why? Because the culture is different. Israel also does HEAVY profiling in law enforcement, in airports, but that doesn't mean we want to do that here.

And for anyone who suggests that I am trying to get out of something, I'm well past the age of the draft, and I don't have any daughters. My concern is not that women can't handle military service or can't perform the duties physically. I think there are other issues.

As I wrote in an earlier post, the biggest issue is pregnancy/pregnancy prevention. Anyone who thinks that isn't an issue is naive. And, no, no pregnant woman should be forced to serve in the military -- even if it is serving food in the mess hall. That should be an automatic ticket home. Of course, people who don't want to be drafted will exploit whatever means they can to avoid being drafted. So I'm sure that would be used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the military should be the best fighting force it should be, and introduce women in measured, researched ways that support that and do not threaten effectiveness or cohesion. However, if a directive from above has determined that social engineering is the most important priority then yes, all women should sign up for selective service and go into combat if qualified. Forced birth control sounds a lot like 'controlling women's bodies" to me---incredibly invasive. That being said, you are government property when you are the military. You are subject to a separate legal code, you have to get constantly inoculated whether you like it or not, etc. so I imagine there is some room for intrusiveness in terms of pregnancies. Pregnancy is a huge problem on Navy ships; can only imagine how the hanky panky that leads to these pregnancies erodes relationships and stability from the families waiting back home. If women come in en masse as in a draft war footing, perhaps single sex units would be best.

But but but we just had a study meant to show women can fight in the same combat units as men and be effective. We spent millions of dollars on it! We just dictated women can be in all combat roles! Same sex units???

Love yhe flip flopping. Yay women can be all combat roles. What, selective service? But we are the weaker sex!

The Marine study did not come to this conclusion, but Carter overruled it as per the President's mandate.

My point exactly. Despite all evidence to the contrary, the mandate of women in all combat roles as a measure of equality was pushed through. Feminists all over were rejoicing yesterday, until they were not once selective service was brought up.

I'm a feminist and I wasn't "rejoicing" it. I actually didn't have an opinion one way or the other on it.

I don't know the details of the studies, but I kind of view military combat in the same way as other physically challenging jobs: If an individual has the ability and the willpower to do the job, then let them do the job -- male or female.

The draft is a completely different animal because you are essentially dealing with forcing large numbers of people to do a job they don't want to do and often don't believe is necessary (Vietnam, for example). So that poses problems, as we saw with Vietnam. It also is a challenge for the military because you are essentially managing a large group of people who don't want to be there, doing a difficult and dangerous job.

Again, I'm not saying that women shouldn't be subject to a draft, but I think there are practical issues. But even the draft poses practical issues that, since Vietnam, we have never really addressed -- we've just avoided using it.

[Anonymous]

It's so easy to "give up" these kids when you're not poor.

First of all, as one PP said, men and women volunteer to join, which means that they're (hopefully) aware of the challenges they'll face. Forcing kids into the military is a different story, as many have NO desire to join.

In fact, many of those who are "recruited" have no desire to join. There was an article written years ago that mentioned that 44% of recruits come from rural areas that are poor. Therefore, they do it b/c they can't find jobs and they have few skills to get them through life.

If this is your idea of keeping the country safe - being reactive by throwing these kids into dangerous situations - then volunteer your own child instead of encouraging him/her to attend college.

The hypocrisy and ignorance is unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's so easy to "give up" these kids when you're not poor.

First of all, as one PP said, men and women volunteer to join, which means that they're (hopefully) aware of the challenges they'll face. Forcing kids into the military is a different story, as many have NO desire to join.

In fact, many of those who are "recruited" have no desire to join. There was an article written years ago that mentioned that 44% of recruits come from rural areas that are poor. Therefore, they do it b/c they can't find jobs and they have few skills to get them through life.

If this is your idea of keeping the country safe - being reactive by throwing these kids into dangerous situations - then volunteer your own child instead of encouraging him/her to attend college.


The hypocrisy and ignorance is unbelievable.

Debating the merits of the draft is one thing. However as it stands, if the possibility is that young men may have to join, young women will have to join too.

Concerns of pregnancy aside, I don't think that issue is a major barrier to the draft. Pregnant women can still work in many capacities.

[Anonymous]

The logical consequence of women being eligible and equal for all combat roles is that they will be eligible for selective service too. Doesn't matter about front line jobs, or whether you are pregnant, here will be enough behind the scenes jobs for those not physically able.

The merits of the draft can be debated, but the reality is if young men have to do this through no will of their own young women should too. That is true equality.

[Anonymous]

I am all for pregnant women not having to join the draft. So a young woman can either be drafted, or have a kid she really does not want. So much for the whole finding oneself when you are young concept, in this situation you are going to have to grow up in a hurry and take on some responsibility, just like it is foisted on young men.

[Anonymous]

It's good women will now be side by side with men in combat because the men will be able to step on the spiders and the women can wash the dishes.

[Anonymous]

Lots of women in the military in combat roles will be the same as lots of women entering any industry or job category. The profession will become "feminized" and will lose status. The more women overtake the military, the less the military will be seen as a desirable profession by males.

Does any serious person believe that a feminized military force will be an effective fighting force? No, no one believes that.

The average amount of weight an infantryman has to carry is 91 pounds. There are only a microscopic percentage of women who will ever be capable of that type of physical labor, no matter how much they train.

Women simply aren't capable of the job.

[Anonymous]

And General Dunford is the only one with the guts to point this out to the administration instead of rolling over and playing dead.

[Anonymous]

The presidents daughters will soon be eligible to register.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain to me if all jobs are being opened up for women, will women be graded on the same scale as men? The reason I ask this is because for the service academies and for example the FBI, the pft for both has completely different standards/scales for men and women.

There shouldn't be different standards because the standards are derived from requirements of the mission and those requirements shouldn't change based on who is taking the test.

that has never made any sense to me.