Family of Four on 90k - An Upper Middle Class Existence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think upper middle class existence is not quite the right description for your lifestyle, but I guess you did admit that you don't have the same world views as the schools.

Sounds very umc to me. It definitely isn't middle class..and they are in top quartile for income. How is that not umc!?

It's umc for Buffalo or equivalent for sure. But I suppose homeschooling and having a very doable mortgage allows them to be umc here. If OP wants to think of herself that way, why not let her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

I already posted all this info a few pages back. I'm happy to answer your questions if you have any.

In one posting or in dribs and drabs across multiple pages? Can you clean it up and summarize, as well as explain non-normative mortgage or childcare expenses or the neighborhood where homes are cheap and the schools are good?

14:31 on page 7. Also a follow up on p8 with suggestions of how you can do the same today.

oh the urban pioneer who won the housing bubble lottery; any plans to cash in your ticket and diversify your wealth before dc economy drops further? do u even have kids or did u win charter school lottery too?

Can you stop with this. There is no housing "lottery". There never has been. Some of us have been willing to take risks - you could have too. These risks are still available and you've chosen to ignore my advice, again and again. You can still buy a fixer upper in a neighborhood that isn't highly desirable. You will have somewhere to live that is within your budget and you can shut up with all the "I make 400k a year and I'm so poor" threads.

No, I am not "cashing in" my equity. I bought a house as somewhere to live and I invested in my community. I -- together with my neighbors -- made the neighborhood that 10 years ago you would have scoffed at into something that is desirable and can support million dollar homes. 15 years ago homes in my neighborhood were selling for around $100k.

And yes I do have kids. They go to the neighborhood school. (At least the oldest does -- he's in K so part way through his third year in DCPS -- his sister will start next year when she turns 3). Yes, it's a title 1 school that you would turn your nose up at. But you know what, he's happy and he's learning. A lot. In fact both academically and socially he's excelling. The staff are dedicated, professional and exceptional. Just like we invested in the community we got involved in our school, before either of my kids were old enough to attend.

You need to understand that you don't get everything right away - even if you earn the big bucks. No the world does not owe you a living -- or rather in this case, it does not owe you an expensive home in a desirable neighborhood with exceptional schools (which you seem to define as those which don't include poor people). You can live happily and well for less than $100k a year. If you make different choices that's fine, but don't snort at those who make do with much less as if you are somehow superior even though you are barely making it on 3 or 4 times the salary. You are not. And you are foolish if you believe differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miserable dcum posters love to descend on threads that have a positive message and try to rip it apart.

Why are you ladies so miserable with life?

This is OP, signing off.

Your OP called everyone pathetic. Where is the positive message in that? You kinda opened yourself up for this.

+1. OP take some responsibility. You set the tone. You didn't post here saying, hey, I have some helpful info...

If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

NP here. We rent a town home in a popular NE DC neighborhood, 5 minute walk from a metro. We are a family of 4, with a 3 and 1 year old, and I SAH. We considered buying and were pre approved and ready to jump, but when we did the math we decided we're better off renting and investing the difference.

Annual income $75,000 pre tax
Net worth: 50k
Monthly expenses:
Rent $1,700
Bills $300
Groceries $600
Investments: $600 (minus TSP which we max out, but I don't know the amount)

There are other miscellaneous expenses like for Christmas gifts, but we don't go out to eat much or do activities that cost money, and the 3yo attends a local charter school. the remainder of our money goes in savings, and we travel at least 4 times a year, but do everything frugally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

I already posted all this info a few pages back. I'm happy to answer your questions if you have any.

In one posting or in dribs and drabs across multiple pages? Can you clean it up and summarize, as well as explain non-normative mortgage or childcare expenses or the neighborhood where homes are cheap and the schools are good?

14:31 on page 7. Also a follow up on p8 with suggestions of how you can do the same today.

oh the urban pioneer who won the housing bubble lottery; any plans to cash in your ticket and diversify your wealth before dc economy drops further? do u even have kids or did u win charter school lottery too?

Can you stop with this. There is no housing "lottery". There never has been. Some of us have been willing to take risks - you could have too. These risks are still available and you've chosen to ignore my advice, again and again. You can still buy a fixer upper in a neighborhood that isn't highly desirable. You will have somewhere to live that is within your budget and you can shut up with all the "I make 400k a year and I'm so poor" threads.

No, I am not "cashing in" my equity. I bought a house as somewhere to live and I invested in my community. I -- together with my neighbors -- made the neighborhood that 10 years ago you would have scoffed at into something that is desirable and can support million dollar homes. 15 years ago homes in my neighborhood were selling for around $100k.

And yes I do have kids. They go to the neighborhood school. (At least the oldest does -- he's in K so part way through his third year in DCPS -- his sister will start next year when she turns 3). Yes, it's a title 1 school that you would turn your nose up at. But you know what, he's happy and he's learning. A lot. In fact both academically and socially he's excelling. The staff are dedicated, professional and exceptional. Just like we invested in the community we got involved in our school, before either of my kids were old enough to attend.

You need to understand that you don't get everything right away - even if you earn the big bucks. No the world does not owe you a living -- or rather in this case, it does not owe you an expensive home in a desirable neighborhood with exceptional schools (which you seem to define as those which don't include poor people). You can live happily and well for less than $100k a year. If you make different choices that's fine, but don't snort at those who make do with much less as if you are somehow superior even though you are barely making it on 3 or 4 times the salary. You are not. And you are foolish if you believe differently.

at least most lottery winners are gracious enough to recognize their good fortune; you are crazy smug and I hope you don't get whacked when dc's downturn deepens.

yes, kindergarten is academically rigorous, I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

I already posted all this info a few pages back. I'm happy to answer your questions if you have any.

In one posting or in dribs and drabs across multiple pages? Can you clean it up and summarize, as well as explain non-normative mortgage or childcare expenses or the neighborhood where homes are cheap and the schools are good?

14:31 on page 7. Also a follow up on p8 with suggestions of how you can do the same today.

oh the urban pioneer who won the housing bubble lottery; any plans to cash in your ticket and diversify your wealth before dc economy drops further? do u even have kids or did u win charter school lottery too?

Can you stop with this. There is no housing "lottery". There never has been. Some of us have been willing to take risks - you could have too. These risks are still available and you've chosen to ignore my advice, again and again. You can still buy a fixer upper in a neighborhood that isn't highly desirable. You will have somewhere to live that is within your budget and you can shut up with all the "I make 400k a year and I'm so poor" threads.

No, I am not "cashing in" my equity. I bought a house as somewhere to live and I invested in my community. I -- together with my neighbors -- made the neighborhood that 10 years ago you would have scoffed at into something that is desirable and can support million dollar homes. 15 years ago homes in my neighborhood were selling for around $100k.

And yes I do have kids. They go to the neighborhood school. (At least the oldest does -- he's in K so part way through his third year in DCPS -- his sister will start next year when she turns 3). Yes, it's a title 1 school that you would turn your nose up at. But you know what, he's happy and he's learning. A lot. In fact both academically and socially he's excelling. The staff are dedicated, professional and exceptional. Just like we invested in the community we got involved in our school, before either of my kids were old enough to attend.

You need to understand that you don't get everything right away - even if you earn the big bucks. No the world does not owe you a living -- or rather in this case, it does not owe you an expensive home in a desirable neighborhood with exceptional schools (which you seem to define as those which don't include poor people). You can live happily and well for less than $100k a year. If you make different choices that's fine, but don't snort at those who make do with much less as if you are somehow superior even though you are barely making it on 3 or 4 times the salary. You are not. And you are foolish if you believe differently.

at least most lottery winners are gracious enough to recognize their good fortune; you are crazy smug and I hope you don't get whacked when dc's downturn deepens.

yes, kindergarten is academically rigorous, I (hate typing in the phone!) and would be curious of how it compares to hrcs? is he reading yet, we are onto books like rahl dahl by end of K. DS didn't read anything entering K, this was all from school efforts (we figured he would read when ready). my dad was a teacher and the worst thing was how much time disciple can sap out of teachers day and energy in title 1 schools

but at least drug dealers are gone from front of house and you have equity to pay for private.

you should probably get some schooling to so you can read about the historic housing bubble which happened last decade.

I love people who think 'I did it all on my own' but ignore the advantages they had. are you libertarian too?

[Anonymous]

It is a common trait of unsuccessful people to ascribe the success of others to luck.

Sure I've had advantages, but they were contributory rather than key to my success. I had parents that valued education, putting me through college. But are most college graduates as successful as me? Apparently not. I studied an in-demand major, but are most computer science majors as successful as me? No.

I graduated from college in 1999 and a year later the tech bubble burst. I left my field 5 years after that, went and got an MBA at a time that everyone and their dog got one too. My friends and family were laughing at me for leaving the comforts of my old career to get an MBA that was surely going to be worthless. Am I sitting here complaining about the poor luck I had with my career choice and graduation timing? No. I am f-ing living the American dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

I already posted all this info a few pages back. I'm happy to answer your questions if you have any.

In one posting or in dribs and drabs across multiple pages? Can you clean it up and summarize, as well as explain non-normative mortgage or childcare expenses or the neighborhood where homes are cheap and the schools are good?

14:31 on page 7. Also a follow up on p8 with suggestions of how you can do the same today.

oh the urban pioneer who won the housing bubble lottery; any plans to cash in your ticket and diversify your wealth before dc economy drops further? do u even have kids or did u win charter school lottery too?

Can you stop with this. There is no housing "lottery". There never has been. Some of us have been willing to take risks - you could have too. These risks are still available and you've chosen to ignore my advice, again and again. You can still buy a fixer upper in a neighborhood that isn't highly desirable. You will have somewhere to live that is within your budget and you can shut up with all the "I make 400k a year and I'm so poor" threads.

No, I am not "cashing in" my equity. I bought a house as somewhere to live and I invested in my community. I -- together with my neighbors -- made the neighborhood that 10 years ago you would have scoffed at into something that is desirable and can support million dollar homes. 15 years ago homes in my neighborhood were selling for around $100k.

And yes I do have kids. They go to the neighborhood school. (At least the oldest does -- he's in K so part way through his third year in DCPS -- his sister will start next year when she turns 3). Yes, it's a title 1 school that you would turn your nose up at. But you know what, he's happy and he's learning. A lot. In fact both academically and socially he's excelling. The staff are dedicated, professional and exceptional. Just like we invested in the community we got involved in our school, before either of my kids were old enough to attend.

You need to understand that you don't get everything right away - even if you earn the big bucks. No the world does not owe you a living -- or rather in this case, it does not owe you an expensive home in a desirable neighborhood with exceptional schools (which you seem to define as those which don't include poor people). You can live happily and well for less than $100k a year. If you make different choices that's fine, but don't snort at those who make do with much less as if you are somehow superior even though you are barely making it on 3 or 4 times the salary. You are not. And you are foolish if you believe differently.

at least most lottery winners are gracious enough to recognize their good fortune; you are crazy smug and I hope you don't get whacked when dc's downturn deepens.

yes, kindergarten is academically rigorous, I (hate typing in the phone!) and would be curious of how it compares to hrcs? is he reading yet, we are onto books like rahl dahl by end of K. DS didn't read anything entering K, this was all from school efforts (we figured he would read when ready). my dad was a teacher and the worst thing was how much time disciple can sap out of teachers day and energy in title 1 schools

but at least drug dealers are gone from front of house and you have equity to pay for private.

you should probably get some schooling to so you can read about the historic housing bubble which happened last decade.

I love people who think 'I did it all on my own' but ignore the advantages they had. are you libertarian too?

Do you really want to get into this pissing match? Yes, my son started reading before he entered PK4. Yes, he learned it all at school and through his own efforts (his teachers provided the tools, he put it together-we never did anything at home but read to him, no flash cards or anything). Now will you blast me because it isn't "academically appropriate" for a kid to start reading at 3? You picked the wrong person to have this pissing match with. Yes, he has read pretty much all the Roald Dahl (children's) books (which I assume is what you meant rather than Rahl Dahl). He started with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory at 4. They do Magic Treehouse at school and he went ahead and read that entire series too (about 50 books) all before he turned 5.

No we are not going to do private. Do you understand how equity works? (Perhaps you should get some schooling). You need to have the appropriate income to pay back money that you borrow against your house. Having equity in your house is not like someone giving you free cash. It's only useful if you actually sell. And if you sell you then need to find somewhere else to live. Besides we have no interest in private school. We WANT our kids to go to the local school and we WANT to support that school.

I am well aware of the history of home pricing. What you don't seem to understand is how prices have evolved in certain parts of DC that are now very hot. There was no bubble where I live. Prices never dropped. They remained fairly steady for a while, but none of my neighbors were siting here with negative equity. For us, if we were, or if we are in the future, what would it matter? It makes no difference to us because the house is SOMEWHERE to LIVE not to boast about or to accumulate wealth and we're not planning to move. If its value were to be halved tomorrow the only difference is on paper. How is it that you are presumably an educated adult and you do not understand this?

Not only this, but because interest rates are so low now your cost to borrow is much lower. It's actually cheaper to buy now than to rent. Regardless of whether you think that I "won the lottery" why do you ignore the fact that you can do the same thing, but you simply don't want to because you're too much of a snob to buy a house that isn't already perfect, that isn't in a hot neighborhood with hot schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If you folks who make less than 100k can please post your budget, your expenses, and how you just make it work, it would be really helpful.
Don't just post that you live so well on 100k and not expect people to try to do the math.
If you have a super low mortgage, how did you do that?

I already posted all this info a few pages back. I'm happy to answer your questions if you have any.

In one posting or in dribs and drabs across multiple pages? Can you clean it up and summarize, as well as explain non-normative mortgage or childcare expenses or the neighborhood where homes are cheap and the schools are good?

Dcum drama at it's finest.

14:31 on page 7. Also a follow up on p8 with suggestions of how you can do the same today.

oh the urban pioneer who won the housing bubble lottery; any plans to cash in your ticket and diversify your wealth before dc economy drops further? do u even have kids or did u win charter school lottery too?

Can you stop with this. There is no housing "lottery". There never has been. Some of us have been willing to take risks - you could have too. These risks are still available and you've chosen to ignore my advice, again and again. You can still buy a fixer upper in a neighborhood that isn't highly desirable. You will have somewhere to live that is within your budget and you can shut up with all the "I make 400k a year and I'm so poor" threads.

No, I am not "cashing in" my equity. I bought a house as somewhere to live and I invested in my community. I -- together with my neighbors -- made the neighborhood that 10 years ago you would have scoffed at into something that is desirable and can support million dollar homes. 15 years ago homes in my neighborhood were selling for around $100k.

And yes I do have kids. They go to the neighborhood school. (At least the oldest does -- he's in K so part way through his third year in DCPS -- his sister will start next year when she turns 3). Yes, it's a title 1 school that you would turn your nose up at. But you know what, he's happy and he's learning. A lot. In fact both academically and socially he's excelling. The staff are dedicated, professional and exceptional. Just like we invested in the community we got involved in our school, before either of my kids were old enough to attend.

You need to understand that you don't get everything right away - even if you earn the big bucks. No the world does not owe you a living -- or rather in this case, it does not owe you an expensive home in a desirable neighborhood with exceptional schools (which you seem to define as those which don't include poor people). You can live happily and well for less than $100k a year. If you make different choices that's fine, but don't snort at those who make do with much less as if you are somehow superior even though you are barely making it on 3 or 4 times the salary. You are not. And you are foolish if you believe differently.

at least most lottery winners are gracious enough to recognize their good fortune; you are crazy smug and I hope you don't get whacked when dc's downturn deepens.

yes, kindergarten is academically rigorous, I (hate typing in the phone!) and would be curious of how it compares to hrcs? is he reading yet, we are onto books like rahl dahl by end of K. DS didn't read anything entering K, this was all from school efforts (we figured he would read when ready). my dad was a teacher and the worst thing was how much time disciple can sap out of teachers day and energy in title 1 schools

but at least drug dealers are gone from front of house and you have equity to pay for private.

you should probably get some schooling to so you can read about the historic housing bubble which happened last decade.

I love people who think 'I did it all on my own' but ignore the advantages they had. are you libertarian too?

Do you really want to get into this pissing match? Yes, my son started reading before he entered PK4. Yes, he learned it all at school and through his own efforts (his teachers provided the tools, he put it together-we never did anything at home but read to him, no flash cards or anything). Now will you blast me because it isn't "academically appropriate" for a kid to start reading at 3? You picked the wrong person to have this pissing match with. Yes, he has read pretty much all the Roald Dahl (children's) books (which I assume is what you meant rather than Rahl Dahl). He started with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory at 4. They do Magic Treehouse at school and he went ahead and read that entire series too (about 50 books) all before he turned 5.

No we are not going to do private. Do you understand how equity works? (Perhaps you should get some schooling). You need to have the appropriate income to pay back money that you borrow against your house. Having equity in your house is not like someone giving you free cash. It's only useful if you actually sell. And if you sell you then need to find somewhere else to live. Besides we have no interest in private school. We WANT our kids to go to the local school and we WANT to support that school.

I am well aware of the history of home pricing. What you don't seem to understand is how prices have evolved in certain parts of DC that are now very hot. There was no bubble where I live. Prices never dropped. They remained fairly steady for a while, but none of my neighbors were siting here with negative equity. For us, if we were, or if we are in the future, what would it matter? It makes no difference to us because the house is SOMEWHERE to LIVE not to boast about or to accumulate wealth and we're not planning to move. If its value were to be halved tomorrow the only difference is on paper. How is it that you are presumably an educated adult and you do not understand this?

Not only this, but because interest rates are so low now your cost to borrow is much lower. It's actually cheaper to buy now than to rent. Regardless of whether you think that I "won the lottery" why do you ignore the fact that you can do the same thing, but you simply don't want to because you're too much of a snob to buy a house that isn't already perfect, that isn't in a hot neighborhood with hot schools.

[Anonymous]

To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

NP. yeah crazy chip on shoulder and has something to prove?

very impressed pk4 teaches chapter book reading, no wonder all the hipsters are moving in for free pre-k!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

NP. yeah crazy chip on shoulder and has something to prove?

very impressed pk4 teaches chapter book reading, no wonder all the hipsters are moving in for free pre-k!

I'm pretty sure the other poster started the book challenge but neither one really need to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

NP. yeah crazy chip on shoulder and has something to prove?

very impressed pk4 teaches chapter book reading, no wonder all the hipsters are moving in for free pre-k!

I'm pretty sure the other poster started the book challenge but neither one really need to go there.

The other poster did start it (basically saying, you think your kid is getting a good education, well is he reading yet? He can't possibly be as smart as my kid... not with that crappy school you picked). You are right, though, I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Basically people will go to amazing lengths to justify their need to spend beyond their means, or to whine and moan about how hard it is to get by on $400k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

NP. yeah crazy chip on shoulder and has something to prove?

very impressed pk4 teaches chapter book reading, no wonder all the hipsters are moving in for free pre-k!

I'm pretty sure the other poster started the book challenge but neither one really need to go there.

The other poster did start it (basically saying, you think your kid is getting a good education, well is he reading yet? He can't possibly be as smart as my kid... not with that crappy school you picked). You are right, though, I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Basically people will go to amazing lengths to justify their need to spend beyond their means, or to whine and moan about how hard it is to get by on $400k.

how do people evaluate the quality of schools? that is a big driver of the high cost of housing and part of why people feel like they can't make it on $100k. how did u identity you up and coming neighborhood as having good and safe schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To above poster - dcum drama at it's finest. Bragging about your kids books - really!?

NP. yeah crazy chip on shoulder and has something to prove?

very impressed pk4 teaches chapter book reading, no wonder all the hipsters are moving in for free pre-k!

I'm pretty sure the other poster started the book challenge but neither one really need to go there.

The other poster did start it (basically saying, you think your kid is getting a good education, well is he reading yet? He can't possibly be as smart as my kid... not with that crappy school you picked). You are right, though, I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Basically people will go to amazing lengths to justify their need to spend beyond their means, or to whine and moan about how hard it is to get by on $400k.

how do people evaluate the quality of schools? that is a big driver of the high cost of housing and part of why people feel like they can't make it on $100k. how did u identity you up and coming neighborhood as having good and safe schools?

PP here, I didn't. I bought my house 10 years ago when I was single and didn't give it a second thought. Then I got involved in the community, and eventually in the local school. (Also, my neighborhood wasn't considered up and coming when I bought -- it wasn't yet -- and isn't now -- it's already arrived).

But the facts are that DCPS does PS3, PK4 and K extremely well, pretty much universally. If you can start at PS3 and get involved you can evaluate what you think of the school for later grades or get a lottery spot at that point when competition is less intense. In DC we are actually extremely lucky. We have a plethora of choices. There are some excellent schools which specialize in early childhood, or Montessori, or language immersion, or Reggio Emilia and while there are some that are extremely difficult to lottery in to, there are plenty of other options -- options which simply aren't available in other parts of the country, plus DCPS which are steadily improving and are typically very good in the early years.

Some of my neighbors send their kids to my son's school. Others send them to charters. I know of one family that do private. But despite the angst that starts when you first consider PS3 everyone I know has landed somewhere they are happy with. Of course, I am talking about elementary only. I know few families that are in a position to start thinking about middle or high school yet. But I'm confident that we will work something out by then.

[Anonymous]

OP you sound like you have a wonderful life and did everything right, remember also that God is smiling on you and take the time to enjoy it rather focusing on everyone else. Put yourselves in the shoes of those you scorn for a minute- someone may make more than you but was u able to buy a house pre-bubble, or has student loans to pay, a child with special needs, or parents to care for. Remember a little humility can go a long way. You never know when your fortunes may change so enjoy it while you can and focus on your family. God bless!