Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3

[Anonymous]

some of you all are going off the rails! Trying to read tea leaves and parse small differences b/w kids is just going to make you crazy. Most Ivies will not take more than 5-10 students from any given school. It's likely the same 5 top students are getting into more than one Ivy (kids don't typically apply to one). NMSF is an awesome application boost. So is winning some science prize or violin competition. Being an alum kid never hurt. Basically you put your best case forward & there's going to be a toss up between extremely competitive top kids from each school at the end. Having gone through this myself - it's not a fully rationalizable decision process. The schools are looking for a mix of kids that fit whatever model they have - and they are looking across the whole DC region and the country to make up that mix. Among the highest performing kids, they are going to have better odds for their choices -- but then for the next 20% of whatever student body, it's almost a pure toss up for who else gets in to Dartmouth and who gets in to Middlebury and who gets in Tulane. There's no rational explanation for why which kids class ranked 10-50 get into which of these extremely good schools and which don't.

There's probably not a single student whose family can afford tuition at one of the "Big 3" who would be steered away from applying somewhere due to money (or if the kids in on scholarship at a Big 3, they already have a hook that's likely giving them an added edge rather than a disadvantage).

And don't believe all the rumors - most of them are people trying to put a rational frame to explain things that they have no idea why or how they ended up a certain way - or are blatantly lying to make themselves or kids seem better or more important or whatever sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have also read articles complaining that the ivies usually place people in summer unpaid internships in large expensive cities that scholarship students can't afford to take. U of NC has a merit scholarship program that guarantees a paid summer job. The counselor might have your child in mind for a scholarship like this- maybe your child is the only one in the school who could get it- and thats why the counselor is promoting it to you heavily. They want the highest number possible children in prestigious programs and schools. If there is a spot that only your child can get- they want your child to apply. If its binding, I understand your concern. Ask the counselor for names of other students who are at that college and call their parents, and have your child call the students. It might be a good thing.

Ivy grad here - there is NO system where Ivies "place" students into internships. You really just apply and compete for internships like everyone else (except maybe those U of NC scholarship-ers). The difference is kids with parents of means often support their kids so they can take unpaid internships -- regardless of whether they are students at Yale or at U of Iowa. Of course there are many more kids that have wealthy parents at Ivies and other top tier schools, and have more access to contacts to get good internships, and all that -- so I'm not saying the world isn't rigged in favor of high income family kids, it totally is. It's the misplaced feelings that both high school counselors and college systems have more influence than they do that is mind-blowing on this thread. There are about the same numbers of kids going to Ivies from the area top public schools - without any real system of any counselors at all. I NEVER talked to a college counselor and don't know anyone who did (or it was a joke visit of like "oh that's nice, apply to some reaches, some on-target, and don't forget a safety" as the extent of the conversation).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have also read articles complaining that the ivies usually place people in summer unpaid internships in large expensive cities that scholarship students can't afford to take. U of NC has a merit scholarship program that guarantees a paid summer job. The counselor might have your child in mind for a scholarship like this- maybe your child is the only one in the school who could get it- and thats why the counselor is promoting it to you heavily. They want the highest number possible children in prestigious programs and schools. If there is a spot that only your child can get- they want your child to apply. If its binding, I understand your concern. Ask the counselor for names of other students who are at that college and call their parents, and have your child call the students. It might be a good thing.

Ivy grad here - there is NO system where Ivies "place" students into internships. You really just apply and compete for internships like everyone else (except maybe those U of NC scholarship-ers). The difference is kids with parents of means often support their kids so they can take unpaid internships -- regardless of whether they are students at Yale or at U of Iowa. Of course there are many more kids that have wealthy parents at Ivies and other top tier schools, and have more access to contacts to get good internships, and all that -- so I'm not saying the world isn't rigged in favor of high income family kids, it totally is. It's the misplaced feelings that both high school counselors and college systems have more influence than they do that is mind-blowing on this thread. There are about the same numbers of kids going to Ivies from the area top public schools - without any real system of any counselors at all. I NEVER talked to a college counselor and don't know anyone who did (or it was a joke visit of like "oh that's nice, apply to some reaches, some on-target, and don't forget a safety" as the extent of the conversation).

P.S. A LARGE percentage of the student body at said Ivy were on some sort of financial aid or grants. P.P.S. I bombed the PSAT.

[Anonymous]

I am the friend and colleague of an independent school director of college counseling. Some of you here are blithely suggesting that he and his counterparts at other schools are engaging in the most unethical behavior imaginable for someone in his profession.

College counselors are not steering qualified applicants away from any school. They very often are telling applicants the honest news that they are not likely to be admitted to certain schools. They might even tell them not to waste one of the most powerful weapons in an applicant's arsenal - an ED application - on a school where it probably still won't get them in. They might also be working with families of "non-wealthy" kids to find the school that offers the most merit aid, making a high-quality college education affordable.

But they are not steering qualified applicants away from schools because they are not rich, and they are not trying to reserve their schools' Ivy slots (which don't exist) for rich kids.

[Anonymous]

My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.
One parent told people that as a member of the board that her child would get into an ivy. Another bragged about having a letter from pres Obama. These were both big donor families. Conclusion?

[Anonymous]

My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.
One parent told people that as a member of the board that her child would get into an ivy. Another bragged about having a letter from pres Obama. These were both big donor families. Conclusion?

.

Ther is a big difference between "not Harvard" and "not likely Harvard", which is a true statement for any candidate. Anyone. Very glad that your daughter beat the odds. Most don't. The rest of your comments are complete non sequiturs. Being on the board at Yale is helpful to admissions prospects at Yale. If you are taliking about the board of one individual private high school, of which there are thousands across the country, nobody in college admissions would give a shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.
One parent told people that as a member of the board that her child would get into an ivy. Another bragged about having a letter from pres Obama. These were both big donor families. Conclusion?

Princeton is better anyway!

- (grad of both)

[Anonymous]

OP: Have not read all of these but I will say: if I listened to others I would not have an Ivy education. If I listened to others my DS would not be at TJ. So apply for yourself and do not listen to what the counselor says: your DS has as good of a chance as anyone. You do not need the counselors permission to apply.

[Anonymous]

^^ PS People were very insulting that I even tried. super surprised when I got in. Did well also. What do you have to lose by trying. Next year that school will be history for you.

[Anonymous]

"My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.
One parent told people that as a member of the board that her child would get into an ivy. Another bragged about having a letter from pres Obama. These were both big donor families. Conclusion?"

Here's a possible conclusion -- they thought you and your child might be "scalp-hunting" by trying to pile up additional acceptances and that she wasn't sincerely interested in Harvard (or had not been sincerely interested in Princeton), and would hurt the chances of another kid without an HYP acceptance already in her back pocket.

The fact that you seem to see yourself as some sort of a victim is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Ask the counselors for copies of the recs and send them in yourself.

[Anonymous]

"My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped."

Awesome response by that family! A great life lesson for their child. Definitely good to be "very bitter" about a school where their child got an excellent education and had many good friends, and to focus only on the advice from a single individual in college counseling. Thanks for sharing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ask the counselors for copies of the recs and send them in yourself.

No, not workable for many reasons. Certain items must come from the school -- the school transcript, the counselor forms. The teacher recommendations now for most schools are processed electronically, often through a Naviance account. Even if you don't agree with the recommendations, your child can still go ahead and apply and the high schools won't stand in the way of that. Look at all the examples on this thread -- "the school said my child shouldn't apply to Ivy X and s/he did and now they're at Ivy X" -- the high schools are not black-balling applications or throwing the forms into the trash.

The child should say politely, "thank you, Mr. Doe, but my parents and I have talked and we would like to go ahead and add [Harvard/Stanford/Duke/MIT] on my list as well as my other schools."

The counselor will most likely say, "Okay, that's fine." They might also say "That's fine but I would still like to talk to you about the rest of your list."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was repeatedly steered away from Harvard when she had everything she needed to get in and she got in. There wasn't any question about it. " not Harvard" can't be misinterpreted She had already gotten into Princeton early.

Well, then, why did she need to apply to Harvard? Or if she really wanted Harvard, why did she apply early to Princeton?