Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.

I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.

Can I know his exact rank at Sidwell? Of course not. My colleague shared the rest with me and that he felt that Sidwell chose to support other kids over his, who seemed equally qualified.

I really do find this troubling. I am sure your work friend was being truthful by his lights, but you know that parents are often (and understandably) not able to be objective about their own children. (Even been to a youth sporting event.) Your colleague could not know where his child stood class rank-wise either, because Sidwell doesn't publicize class rank. You don't know how that child's scores stacked up with others, nor the child's GPA, nor even the level of difficulty of the courses taken -- and your colleague wouldn't know that either. Yet you chose to believe his accusation that put one of the worst possible constructions on the college application process, and to air that on DCUM about a specific school.

How can people not see a lack of fairness in this approach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am so tired of hearing about overinvolved parents. Hate to break it to you, but if parents paying a fortune to a private school caring about where their children will go to college (that they are also paying for) makes them overinvolved, then what does that make all of the moms on this site, some of whom post multiple times a day commenting, asking, complaining, snarking, etc. about thie child's school? Why bother having kids then? I don't know what generation the PP is from, but I know that my generation was raised for the most part with involved parents. These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.

The following comes directly from the Sidwell College Counseling page, and is their statement of philosophy:

A key element in a student-centered approach to the college process is the clear expectation that the student will take control. We strive to enable students to develop a fuller sense of autonomy and responsibility. As such, our job is to guide, counsel, probe, refer, suggest and inform. The student is the one ultimately responsible for the key decisions in driving this process forward. Students must also be responsible for signing up for the appropriate standardized tests and meeting application deadlines.

No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction. What Sidwell clearly states it's going to do, intentionally, is at direct odds with what some parents want it to do.

Uh-huh. And the queen bee at Sidwell who touted this philosophy got fired last year, not in small part because everyone resented her anti-parent attitude. They get the parents involved when they want money or want the parents to make their kids fall in line. All that passage is really is a disclaimer that if the kid misses an application deadline or doesn't sign up for the SAT when they are supposed to, then it's not the kids fault.

My DC went to Field, which has a phenomenal college guidance office, and we were told the same thing -- let your child have control of the process. None of the parents thought this was anti-parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.

I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.

Can I know his exact rank at Sidwell? Of course not. My colleague shared the rest with me and that he felt that Sidwell chose to support other kids over his, who seemed equally qualified.

I really do find this troubling. I am sure your work friend was being truthful by his lights, but you know that parents are often (and understandably) not able to be objective about their own children. (Even been to a youth sporting event.) Your colleague could not know where his child stood class rank-wise either, because Sidwell doesn't publicize class rank. You don't know how that child's scores stacked up with others, nor the child's GPA, nor even the level of difficulty of the courses taken -- and your colleague wouldn't know that either. Yet you chose to believe his accusation that put one of the worst possible constructions on the college application process, and to air that on DCUM about a specific school.

How can people not see a lack of fairness in this approach?


Actually at these small schools the kids do know each others grades, they know what level of math and science people are taking, they know what their extracurriculars are, they know all about each other. They know who their main competition is and the parents are mostly successful people who don't underestimate the competition That is a fantasy of the school staff that the parents so successful are actually stupid about their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My colleague's son went to Sidwell and was in the top most tier of students. He was advised against applying to top schools, even the ivy where his parents met as undergrads. He applied to some top schools against sidwells advice and got into them all.

His parents remain very bitter and needless to say the checks to sidwell have stopped.

I sense some hyperbole in this statement, coming from second or third hand knowledge. "Top" students at Sidwell are not advised to avoid applying to at least a reach school or two. The very rare candidate gets into all of their reach schools. Perhaps they managed the family's expectations inelegantly, but I doubt the extremes you paint reflect the realities of the situation.

Can I know his exact rank at Sidwell? Of course not. My colleague shared the rest with me and that he felt that Sidwell chose to support other kids over his, who seemed equally qualified.

I really do find this troubling. I am sure your work friend was being truthful by his lights, but you know that parents are often (and understandably) not able to be objective about their own children. (Even been to a youth sporting event.) Your colleague could not know where his child stood class rank-wise either, because Sidwell doesn't publicize class rank. You don't know how that child's scores stacked up with others, nor the child's GPA, nor even the level of difficulty of the courses taken -- and your colleague wouldn't know that either. Yet you chose to believe his accusation that put one of the worst possible constructions on the college application process, and to air that on DCUM about a specific school.

How can people not see a lack of fairness in this approach?


Actually at these small schools the kids do know each others grades, they know what level of math and science people are taking, they know what their extracurriculars are, they know all about each other. They know who their main competition is and the parents are mostly successful people who don't underestimate the competition That is a fantasy of the school staff that the parents so successful are actually stupid about their kids.

The students don't know the content of their teacher recommendations. The students don't all know each other's board scores. The students don't sit in the Princeton admissions committee to know why Princeton let in Tyler and not Cassandra or Jennifer and not Cameron. You've chosen to make the most negative assumption possible about the high school college admissions process, based upon the input of one angry and bitter friend at one school. Sorry, but that is neither logical nor fair.

[Anonymous]

The kids know the teachers opinion of each other they sit together interacting in a small group in a small room for 5 hours a week. They share their sat scores. I know all this because of my own kid who got into her first choice. This is not bitterness talking, it's what I saw and it wasn't at sidwell.

[Anonymous]

At my school a large donors child did not get into an ivy ED and it was discovered that the recs were negative. The recs were pulled and the head wrote a glowing rec instead. This info came from the donor parent involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my school a large donors child did not get into an ivy ED and it was discovered that the recs were negative. The recs were pulled and the head wrote a glowing rec instead. This info came from the donor parent involved.

You believe a lot of crazy s___, don't you? LOL. (Psssst, the moon landing was faked! See the documentary film, "Capricorn One"!)

[Anonymous]

The following comes directly from the Sidwell College Counseling page, and is their statement of philosophy:
A key element in a student-centered approach to the college process is the clear expectation that the student will take control. We strive to enable students to develop a fuller sense of autonomy and responsibility. As such, our job is to guide, counsel, probe, refer, suggest and inform. The student is the one ultimately responsible for the key decisions in driving this process forward. Students must also be responsible for signing up for the appropriate standardized tests and meeting application deadlines.


This is indeed the Sidwell approach to almost everything in US. I do not consider it anti-parent. I consider it pro-student. It can be tough for kids who do not self advocate well, but for those who naturally are self confident and/ or learn to self advocate well, it is empowering. It serves them well later in life.

[Anonymous]

The fact is that Sidwell does not get kids into top tier schools at the same rate other private schools do. It's a mystery, but parents suspect that the grade deflation at Sidwell is hard to overcome. The average "GPA" at Sidwell is said to be 3.2. Many top colleges will not accept students below a 3.8 or so, and at Sidwell that is a small handful of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact is that Sidwell does not get kids into top tier schools at the same rate other private schools do. It's a mystery, but parents suspect that the grade deflation at Sidwell is hard to overcome. The average "GPA" at Sidwell is said to be 3.2. Many top colleges will not accept students below a 3.8 or so, and at Sidwell that is a small handful of students.

Snore, troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These schools all cost a fortune, and the parents are the ones who work hard to pay for the tuition that pays these counselors' salaries. Most of the top schools around here tout all of the colleges their graduates get into as a way to promote the school and increase applicants. Which means the college counselors they hire should know what they are doing and advise kids from a place of knowledge and experience. This is the guidance counselor's job, and they had to expect if they work at one of these privates that job security comes with results befitting the tuition they are charging.

Anonymous wrote:Uh-huh. And the queen bee at Sidwell who touted this philosophy got fired last year, not in small part because everyone resented her anti-parent attitude. They get the parents involved when they want money or want the parents to make their kids fall in line. All that passage is really is a disclaimer that if the kid misses an application deadline or doesn't sign up for the SAT when they are supposed to, then it's not the kids fault.

Guess Sidwell's counselor wasn't getting enough kids into Ivies.

You couldn't play me enough to take that job. Top schools are accepting between 5-10% of applicants, and your job is on the line if you can't get kids into these schools, even if the kids' scholastic achievements don't merit admission.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the school involved with the achievement to some degree? They admit the students and train them for 12 years!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact is that Sidwell does not get kids into top tier schools at the same rate other private schools do. It's a mystery, but parents suspect that the grade deflation at Sidwell is hard to overcome. The average "GPA" at Sidwell is said to be 3.2. Many top colleges will not accept students below a 3.8 or so, and at Sidwell that is a small handful of students.

Please see ED/EA thread for a more informed view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact is that Sidwell does not get kids into top tier schools at the same rate other private schools do. It's a mystery, but parents suspect that the grade deflation at Sidwell is hard to overcome. The average "GPA" at Sidwell is said to be 3.2. Many top colleges will not accept students below a 3.8 or so, and at Sidwell that is a small handful of students.

Please see ED/EA thread for a more informed view.

But isn't gpa relative to the difficulty of the school. And don't colleges know this?

[Anonymous]

OP, We are immigrants too and this is what we did with our extremely competitive magnet school kid.

We did early action in a bunch of schools. We did not do early decision at all. You do early decision in the ONE school that you want above all else, is difficult to get in and where you can swing the tuition.


Why? Because if it is an Ivy league school then there is no need to signal by using your early decision ticket there (unless it is THE dream school) - because they know what they are worth.

This is what you need to do. You apply in schools you want to, you then make sure that all transcripts, recommendations etc has reached the said colleges from your school. (If you think that the counselor is trying to sabotage you - which I think is unlikely)

One thing that I will tell you is that you should also get all your in-state applications for the early action. This is the classic mistake I see people making. Get your State school or safety school acceptance under your belt and then the rest of the regular application process becomes an academic exercise - because there is no stress at all.

DC had shortlisted 2 schools where she wanted to go - based on a number of factors - mostly a long term strategy of which field she wanted to get into. She has already got her acceptance in the 2nd school. While she will be applying to other schools before Jan 1, (some of them better ranked than her dream school), it is merely out of curiosity to see if she could get into those schools. After all the work she has done in HS - I am willing to indulge her in this exercise.