Discriminatory College Advising @ Big 3

[Anonymous]

I am reaching out for genuine, sincerely needed advice. My husband and I were both educated abroad and are dealing with the college application process in the US for the first time. I apologize in advance for the length--my blood is boiling right now.

We are a working class family (in the true, sociological sense) who send our DC to a "big 3" school in the district, receiving a significant amount of financial aid. Our child is the first in our family to attend a highly-ranked private school and it is relatively well known among faculty and staff that our child is a scholarship student. We live in the suburbs, far away from the school campus and social bubble, limiting how much my husband and I can contribute to the school and belong to the general community. In sum, our DC is a student yet we (parents) are outsiders. Although fellow parents have been nothing but kind to us, it is clear to us [and has been made clear by others] that we do not fit the "typical" profile of this school.

We are currently in the process of short-listing what colleges to apply to yet it seems that the college counselor at DC's school is being extremely conservative if not plainly discouraging in commandeering the college application process and dictating what schools my DC should and should not apply to. After a recent conversation, my concern is that the college counselor is not acting in DC's best interest, but rather, is strategically manipulating the college application process at DC's school to favor legacy students and high-profile parents who operate under the implicit assumption that little Timmy or Bobby will, like his parents and grandparents, go to a school like Yale.

Paranoia or not?

Our child has a highly competitive GPA with an upward trend and is among the top 5-10 students in the school's class (school does not give precise rankings). DC has an SAT score of +/-2200 which is likely to increase, has participated in varsity athletics for all four years of high school, has excellent recommendations and has pursued various research opportunities. That being said, DC does not have a particularly unique narrative or "story" and, without knowing our family background and circumstances, would just appear like a regular, privileged independent school child on paper. It doesn't help that DC is shy.

The college adviser has marked schools like Princeton, Williams and Stanford as "highly unlikely reaches" and has pushed DC to apply to lesser-ranked private colleges (think no. 15-25 USNWR and smaller LACs) and strongly pressured DC to pursue a binding early decision scholarship at a state school (not UMD but not Berkeley or UVA either). I am not clueless and understand that college admissions are incredibly competitive today. Indeed, even students with perfect SATs and NIH-funded research projects are often denied admission. Yet, I cannot help but wonder if I should be more assertive with the college counselor and ask what specific criteria has been used to steer students towards so-called "match" or "fit" schools?

My query and concern is the following: knowing the profile of parents who send their kids to DC's school, is it possible that the college counselor may be working overtime advocating for some students and not others? A fellow parent has told me that typically, Ivies and other highly-ranked schools only accept 2-3 students (max) per DC independent school. Is it possible that my son is being steered away from HYPSM and other top schools where DC meets, if not even exceeds the median criteria for admission in order to ensure that full-paying students who have a history with the school are more likely to be admitted?

I understand how social reproduction works; I knew what we were getting into when my DC began attending this school yet I worry that DC has become objectified due to his [comparative] lack of cultural and symbolic capital. That being said, I can also play devil's advocate. To be honest, if I were a parent paying full tuition for K-12 at this school, I would expect to yield a return on my investment in my child's education. If you had two Yale or Columbia-educated law partners sending their kid to a Big-3, where do you think they would be gunning for their kids to go to?

All being said and done, what can I do? Aside from the logistics of actually applying to colleges--at the end of the day, we can apply wherever we want, regardless of what the school tells us--my deepest concern is that DC's college counselor has made DC feel unfit or inadequate, implying that he is not academically competent or will simply not "fit in" at a traditional HYPSM type school. This has had a significant impact on DC's sense of self-worth, only confirming DC's sense of alienation, and reinforcing the "I don't belong here" mindset that his school has bred.

Finally, to be explicitly clear: I understand that one can get a rigorous education at many schools. At the end of the day, DC is very industrious and will make do with what he has. I am not pressuring DC to attend a HYPSM school. Rather, it is always DC who has been very-self motivated and forward-looking. The idea to apply to Big-3 schools (which I had no idea about) was entirely his own. When DC entered this school, I worried that the level of material influence would impact his ability to fit in. I thought we had gotten over that, but it seems that even within a supposed "meritocracy" this is not the case. Excuse me for going on ad nauseam. I'm a mother. I can't help but worry about my child.

[Anonymous]

I went to a school that is often identified as one of the "big 3" on these boards.

Counselors are people, and without knowing the counselor I can't speculate as to his/her bias.

Those schools (and the guidance counselors who work for them) are assessed, to a large degree, on how good their yield of college acceptances is.

I wouldn't think the counselor would be advocating harder for some students than others in order to kiss butt with the parents -- however, I *can* see a counselor thinking that a legacy admit might be more likely to get into HYP than an "unconnected" student, and therefore be a more fruitful applicant for those schools in terms of the counselor's performance statistics.

I don't know your son, so I can't judge whether or not HYPSM schools are realistic prospects for him or not. However, I went to Harvard, and there are PLENTY of working-class kids at HYP etc -- the student body is far more economically & socially diverse than at a DC big 3. So despite the impression your child might've gotten from his counselor, he should have no fears that he will not fit in.

[Anonymous]

Your child is unhooked. The school knows this and understands how competitive admissions is and is trying to counsel your child to pick safety and match schools. Listen, don't listen. Your child will get into a great school but your focus on HYPSM could net your child no admissions which it seems the counselimg staff is trying to avoid.

BTW, 2200 sat is not particulary high. At some schools it is not even top 25 percent. The bottom line is they know how your kid stacks up. Your kid can still takema shot at a "high reach". They should also have a safety school they love.

[Anonymous]

I might be wrong but I think they may be trying to keep your son from being disappointed. My daughter went through the same thing when she was applying from a public IB program. She was a WASP from a non connected family.They said they had not had anyone get into the schools etc etc but she insisted on applying to the schools she wanted and got into all of them. They were very happy with her success and it opened the door for kids behind her. She went on to be a college admission person at the schools they didn't think would take her. She paid it forward for many years. She spent months looking for students like your son. Apply to the schools he wants and the schools they recommend. Good Luck.

[Anonymous]

OP - Just read your very thoughtful and useful post. Do you have access to Naviance? If you haven't done this yet, I would go on there and look at admissions statistics to the colleges you are interested in based on your child's stats at your school. More generally, your complaint is not uncommon, and is one of the things I am always surprised other parents don't give more weight to this when applying to "Big X" schools. When you are in a culture where expectations are you should attend H/Y/P/S/ etc., that is a lot of pressure and a recipe for disappointment to those that do not attend these schools. Another thing you can do if you have doubts about the counselors advice is pay for a consult with an outside counselor if you can scrap together the money. Chances are that it won't help and will just waste money, but it might give you piece of mind. It is also possible that at this point your counselor doesn't know how strong a student you have -- perhaps his teacher references should reach out to the counselor and talk to him/her about your son?

All that said. the reality is that H/Y/P/S -- add Columbia, UChicago, and several others -- only take 5-6% of applicants. If your child is first generation to go to college from a working class background, you should bring that up with the counselor -- all colleges give a boost to first generation kids. Yes, it is possible that the counselor is steering certain kids to certain schools knowing those kids have legacy parents or will make big donations for years to come, but at the end of the day it is also possible that the counselor knows which kids with stronger stats than your DC will have the strongest recommendations from teachers or have done other things likely to increase their odds of admission. At most DC privates, it is also not all about GPA but also class selection/rigor, and you can't tell that from an unweighted GPA. . We just finished the process last year at another school (not a Big X). What we found was that parents -- and kids -- who made extra appointments to talk to the counselors more than the minimum required tended to feel better about the process. The counselors get to know you and the kids better and can do a better job. Might be tough with the distance from where you live or work requirements, but realistically that is what might help the most. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

They advise, apply to what schools you want, reaches, matches, etc..

GL!

[Anonymous]

One angle might be whether the counselor is wondering if your working class family can afford an Ivy. The Ivies don't give out merit aid and the cutoff for financial is extremely low at many of them. Have you talked to the counselor about this?

That said, you might be right in your suspicions. We just don't have enough info to help you know for sure whether the counselor is getting lots of pressure from other families, thinks your child won't get in because of having no hook.

I've also suspected that Ivies go to the private schools for full-pay kids who will subsidize the FA kids. Maybe you don't fit the counselor's thinking here.

If your DC doesn't like the state school, then DO NOT apply ED there. It's very reasonable to apply to a mix of reaches, targets and safeties. You are completely within your rights to apply to more reaches than your counselor wants. Just make sure to apply to at least some targets and safeties because, as PP said, kids who apply only to HPYSM sometimes end up with no acceptances.

[Anonymous]

The college counselor at big threes are thinking about the college profile of the entire class. They do not have your kids individual interest as a priority. Apply to at least several reaches even if the counselor tells you not to.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you have to look to conspiracies here. Your kid's grades have improved through her high school career so that implies that the earlier years, grades were not as strong. +/-2200s are not +/-2300s. Your child has a very strong academic resume but it doesn't seem, as you describe it at, as Princeton, Stanford, Williams calibre. The schools want families like yours to be successful. My strategy would be to include two of your reaches, but realize your counselor honestly believes that you don't have much of a shot at those schools. She isn't conspiring against you, she just knows there are stronger candidates. At a top 3 school like Sidwell, STA and NCS, there are many more kids than you realize with more consistent grades and stronger boards.

[Anonymous]

Look at Naviance, and speak with the adviser directly. Give them the information they need to tell your son's story. First to college, etc. They can't ct on information they don't know.

As far as feeling excluded from the school community, I sounds like you decided not to become involved. Maybe you can talk with your child about that choice, so he doesn't assume people have ill motives toward him. It may help to tell him very explicitly that you made a choice to send him to a school for his education, that that was top priority, and that you knew you wouldn't be able to be involve in the social side of the school, and that that was worth it to you for your family. We used to live very far fro school and did not make many efforts to join the community beyond the minimum. So, predictably, we weren't really part of the community. Then we moved close to the school and made efforts. Predictably, we became much more of a part of the community. I wasn't about discrimination or ill will, it was about distance, logistics, and my own willingness and availability to make efforts. If it's the same for you, maybe it would be good for your son to hear it.

[Anonymous]

OP - It is probably in part b/c you are at a school where you know many kids have gone to ivy league schools that you or you son feel this way. For unhooked kid to get into these schools, they usually are No. 1 or 2 in their class in a large public school. I forget which, but one of the ivies used to advertise the percentage of kids who were ranked no. 1 or 2 (and don't be fooled, colleges still have a good feel for the rank of others based on general GPA tables (where is the top 10% cut off, top 20% etc.) And yes, =/- 2200 is a stretch for an unhooked kid. Aim for 2300+ and the English and math "count" more than writing. What about SAT IIs? You didn't mention those. Does your DC have any SAT IIs north of 750? Any 800s? And, of course, lots of 5's on AP tests? Yes, this is really what it takes these days to get into H/Y/P/etc. as a base if you not hooked and even then you need to somehow show you are unique compared to the other 5,000 applicants with the same statistics. You son should start working on weaving his unique story into his common app essay. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

OP -- Do you fit in an ethnic category that gets to "check a box" such as Hispanic or African American? If so, your child will have a much better chance at entry. Some people posting here do not know the ropes. They are just speculating. My DD got into an Ivy even though she was steered away. She got to check a box. And, she got in and some of her classmates did not. Her numbers were similar to your child's. Just go ahead and apply and don't be intimidated. Again, if you get to check a box you'll be in much better shape.

[Anonymous]

Based on the academic record you describe, your advisor seems to be on the right track. I know it may be hard to hear but I would not set your kid up to feel disappointed about the great schools he does get in to. That's really not fair to him.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm going to be straight with you, it is very unlikely that your DC will get into any of the schools you mention and the college guidance counselor was being straight with you. The thing that will make him feel inadequate is your pressure on him to attend one of these schools. You are clearly devaluing the many, many other incredibly good schools and the result will be to set your DS up to feel like a failure. You are equating going to another school as being "academically incompetent". He does not have the test scores, the grades (if he's trending up, that means there's room to go up which means his grades aren't strong enough now). But even if his grades and scores were stronger, he would need a hook. Really, they take kids who are either connected legacies or have extraordinary talents. Thats just the reality.

He will get into a great school, but it is highly unlike to be one of those. You need to cast the web wider. he could apply to one of these reaches but don't put too much faith in it coming through.

[Anonymous]

OP, it is the work of a good counselor to advise you honestly, and guide your college admissions process. In this role, the counselor may often sound "pessimistic", because they know -- through bittersweet experience -- that in the college admissions process there are no guarantees.