Why Some People Convert to Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read the Quran and was not tempted to convert, in fact quite the opposite.

DD read the Quran in high school and was, quite frankly, shocked. She actually told me, "this is not a religion of peace."

I don't think you can read the Quran and say it is a religion of violence. However, a huge amount of the Quran is devoted to the end of days and what happens if you go to hell--it is a bit harrowing, but not an exhortation to violence on earth; it is much like what one sees depicted in Hermonius Bosch's paintings that one finds hanging in museums.

In my view, if you've heard one harrowing description of the end of days and of hell, you've heard them all. The Quran has many iterations of this, which is one of the reasons I find it overall not very interesting. In Arabic, it is quite different because it is actually poetry so the language, meter, and sound all come together in a euphonious whole.

I suspect this is the real reason the vigilant defenders of the Quran, like some of the PPs here, insist you can't really understand the Quran unless you read it in Arabic. It is not really about understanding the words, but about being captured by the beauty of the language.

That's fine , I think we can all appreciate the beauty of the melodious recitation. I should point out that since classical Islamic law frowns on music and singing (which is why all Islamic countries have few orchestras or professional musicians apart from pop stars), Quranic recitation industry is one of the few halal outlets for the musically inclined. In a different country you may see that reciter rocking the Carnegie Hall.

But to me the actual meaning and substance of the Quran is incredibly tedious and repetitive.

[Anonymous]

I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

Muslim PP gave a Youtube link where women allegedly converted to Islam after reading the Quran. So it seems fair that people are discussing the impact on various people of ... reading the Quran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting this thread BACK to the issue of conversion.

Here's a great British show examining the trend of rapid conversion to Islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbKqqai1V-c

Fascinating that some of these women started out reading the Quran to find proof of fault, then ended up converting.

Here are some links about Muslims leaving Islam after they finally read the Quran:
http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/04/28/islamophobic-muslims-leave-islam-reading-quran/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Abul_Kasem_%28former_Muslim%29

Citing one link is stupid. It's not statistically valid in any sense. The only thing citing a single link does is to start a contest over who has the most links.

YES, but where are the links about men who were taken to court to compel them to support their mothers or sisters? I'm waiting for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

The Torah was in Hebrew. The Bible was in Greek originally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

Muslim PP gave a Youtube link where women allegedly converted to Islam after reading the Quran. So it seems fair that people are discussing the impact on various people of ... reading the Quran.

I think that would be a different discussion, The Impact of Reading the Qur'an. Not Why Some People Convert to Islam. Conversion has many paths not just reading the Qur'an, reading may be secondary. I don't believe you need to read it to convert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

Muslim PP gave a Youtube link where women allegedly converted to Islam after reading the Quran. So it seems fair that people are discussing the impact on various people of ... reading the Quran.

I think that would be a different discussion, The Impact of Reading the Qur'an. Not Why Some People Convert to Islam. Conversion has many paths not just reading the Qur'an, reading may be secondary. I don't believe you need to read it to convert.

1. Somebody posted at 09/13/2014 10:41 that reading the Quran was what caused some British women to convert.
2. We are discussing the impact of reading the Quran on whether various posters here, or people they know, actually decided to convert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

Muslim PP gave a Youtube link where women allegedly converted to Islam after reading the Quran. So it seems fair that people are discussing the impact on various people of ... reading the Quran.

I think that would be a different discussion, The Impact of Reading the Qur'an. Not Why Some People Convert to Islam. Conversion has many paths not just reading the Qur'an, reading may be secondary. I don't believe you need to read it to convert.

This conversation makes absolutely no sense. PP, you need to take a chill pill. Anything that influences a person to convert should be in this thread. You have hijacked many threads but now suddenly find it objectionable to anyone who even slightly veers off topic (which arguably this does not do anyway)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read the Quran and was not tempted to convert, in fact quite the opposite.

DD read the Quran in high school and was, quite frankly, shocked. She actually told me, "this is not a religion of peace."

I don't think you can read the Quran and say it is a religion of violence. However, a huge amount of the Quran is devoted to the end of days and what happens if you go to hell--it is a bit harrowing, but not an exhortation to violence on earth; it is much like what one sees depicted in Hermonius Bosch's paintings that one finds hanging in museums.

In my view, if you've heard one harrowing description of the end of days and of hell, you've heard them all. The Quran has many iterations of this, which is one of the reasons I find it overall not very interesting. In Arabic, it is quite different because it is actually poetry so the language, meter, and sound all come together in a euphonious whole.

I suspect this is the real reason the vigilant defenders of the Quran, like some of the PPs here, insist you can't really understand the Quran unless you read it in Arabic. It is not really about understanding the words, but about being captured by the beauty of the language.

That's fine , I think we can all appreciate the beauty of the melodious recitation. I should point out that since classical Islamic law frowns on music and singing (which is why all Islamic countries have few orchestras or professional musicians apart from pop stars), Quranic recitation industry is one of the few halal outlets for the musically inclined. In a different country you may see that reciter rocking the Carnegie Hall.

But to me the actual meaning and substance of the Quran is incredibly tedious and repetitive.

As far as I know classical Islamic law does not frown on music and singing. Even the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia permit it--there have been music radio stations there for decades and singing is an integral part of wedding celebrations and even mournings.

The banning of music is a latter day invention of Islamic fundamentalists, who necessarily have to retreat every time they try to outlaw music because it is so deeply entrenched in the culture. They try to ban secular music because they see it as competition to recitation of the Koran. These people have no sense of humor, nor of human nature.

This is one of the reasons these people are doomed to failure (albeit after leaving lots of tragedy in their wake)--they keep trying to impose laws that are totally antithetical to not just human nature, but to the cultures of the peoples they are trying to control.

There are few orchestras because western music is based on a completely different scale (probably the wrong term--I'm no musicologist). Also, while people do love listening to Arab music, being an "artiste" as they say is not viewed as a respectable profession (think of how many people here over the decades have viewed jazz musicians). If a child shows talent in drawing in the Arab world, people don't say, "Oh, he'll be an artisit," they say "Oh, he'll be an architect" (architecture being viewed as a respectable profession).

In any case, none of this prevented millions of people showing up for Um Kalthoum's funeral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

I thinks a posting titled "Why some people converted to Islam" should be about that. Not some forum for simpletons who enjoy going off topic with something they can copy and paste from the internet.

Muslim PP gave a Youtube link where women allegedly converted to Islam after reading the Quran. So it seems fair that people are discussing the impact on various people of ... reading the Quran.

I think that would be a different discussion, The Impact of Reading the Qur'an. Not Why Some People Convert to Islam. Conversion has many paths not just reading the Qur'an, reading may be secondary. I don't believe you need to read it to convert.

This conversation makes absolutely no sense. PP, you need to take a chill pill. Anything that influences a person to convert should be in this thread. You have hijacked many threads but now suddenly find it objectionable to anyone who even slightly veers off topic (which arguably this does not do anyway)?

That was my first post here but thank-you for the warm welcome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should also add that it doesn't make sense for god to send down a book allegedly for all ages and peoples, and make its beauty accessible only to a minority of Muslims (not people, Muslims) who speak Arabic, since most of them do not.

The Torah was in Hebrew. The Bible was in Greek originally.

No one is claiming you need to read them in these original languages to truly appreciate them, and all translations are but a pale approximation of their magical power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As far as I know classical Islamic law does not frown on music and singing. Even the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia permit it--there have been music radio stations there for decades and singing is an integral part of wedding celebrations and even mournings.

The banning of music is a latter day invention of Islamic fundamentalists, who necessarily have to retreat every time they try to outlaw music because it is so deeply entrenched in the culture. They try to ban secular music because they see it as competition to recitation of the Koran. These people have no sense of humor, nor of human nature.

This is one of the reasons these people are doomed to failure (albeit after leaving lots of tragedy in their wake)--they keep trying to impose laws that are totally antithetical to not just human nature, but to the cultures of the peoples they are trying to control.

There are few orchestras because western music is based on a completely different scale (probably the wrong term--I'm no musicologist). Also, while people do love listening to Arab music, being an "artiste" as they say is not viewed as a respectable profession (think of how many people here over the decades have viewed jazz musicians). If a child shows talent in drawing in the Arab world, people don't say, "Oh, he'll be an artisit," they say "Oh, he'll be an architect" (architecture being viewed as a respectable profession).

In any case, none of this prevented millions of people showing up for Um Kalthoum's funeral.

Wedding singing is one of the few permitted exceptions. It does not permit accompaniment with instruments except the drum.

Your reasons for lack of orchestras in the Arab Gulf world doesn't make sense. No matter what musical scale they use (and they do use a different one), people play instruments and there are ways of playing together. The lack of serious music scene in the Gulf countries has nothing to do with a different scale and everything to do with the fact that the religiously inspired environment bans institutions where music can be taught or practiced formally - as it should be, from childhood, to have a chance at excellence.

[Anonymous]

Who was talking about the Gulf countries--the Arab world is much bigger than that and the Muslim world is even bigger. Culturally, being a musician is not seen as a respectable profession in the Arab world. If music is banned, it is banned. And the fundamentalists who do this do not make exceptions for weddings or funerals. All the ridiculous reasons for banning apply equally well to these occasions.

Singing is almost as deeply rooted in people as speaking. Fundamentalists keep trying to work against human nature. Mohammed did not do this or early Islam would never have succeeded. He saw how deeply important the pagan pilgrimage was to the economy of Mecca and innate spiritual needs of the people in that area of the peninsula. So he went on the pilgrimage himself, changing some things to root out the more obvious pagan aspects. This was a major factor in swaying Mecca to accept Islam. There was a man who understood human nature.

He never would have won over the Meccans if he'd banned the pilgrimage. And he would have won over close to no one if he'd banned music and singing, not there is any evidence he was inclined to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who was talking about the Gulf countries--the Arab world is much bigger than that and the Muslim world is even bigger. Culturally, being a musician is not seen as a respectable profession in the Arab world. If music is banned, it is banned. And the fundamentalists who do this do not make exceptions for weddings or funerals. All the ridiculous reasons for banning apply equally well to these occasions.

Singing is almost as deeply rooted in people as speaking. Fundamentalists keep trying to work against human nature. Mohammed did not do this or early Islam would never have succeeded. He saw how deeply important the pagan pilgrimage was to the economy of Mecca and innate spiritual needs of the people in that area of the peninsula. So he went on the pilgrimage himself, changing some things to root out the more obvious pagan aspects. This was a major factor in swaying Mecca to accept Islam. There was a man who understood human nature.

He never would have won over the Meccans if he'd banned the pilgrimage. And he would have won over close to no one if he'd banned music and singing, not there is any evidence he was inclined to do so.

Well not Arab but part of the Gulf, I don't believe the Shi'a Islam Government of Iran has banned music. The may restrict what you say though. Not supporting the regime at all btw, just commenting.