Why Some People Convert to Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You have to realize that in an Islamic country, the greatest priority is on preservation of the religion. Individual rights exist, yes, and even for women contrary to the opinions expressed here. But those rights must be in the context of preserving religion first. So when a nonMuslim woman agrees to marry a man, and then chooses to live in an Islamic state, and when her husband dies, generally the state will give custody to the uncle or grandfather who is Muslim to ensure that child is raised as a Muslim. However, thats the Sharia. Remember that the Sharia is more restrictive and narrow in interpreting individual rights than the Quran.

Quran says nothing about custody.

Not true, it does. It says a very young child may be weaned by the mother. It also clearly says both parents should work together in an amicable cooperative way for the best interests of the child. The implication is, make the nonMuslim parent a part of the child's life if it is good for the child.

Its the Sharia that interprets the Quran so harshly. Do not confuse this with the Quran and falsely assert that it reflects the faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as we are on the subject of inheritance, a wife with no children inherits one-fourth of her husband's estate, one-eighth if she does have children. In the latter case, the remaining seven eighths is divided among the children, with the boys receiving twice what the girls inherit. If there are no sons, a male relative inherits one half of the remainder (if there is just one daughter) or one-third if there is more than one. In Islam there must always be a male heir.

This in part accounts for why mothers often show such strong preference for sons--if she has a son, only she and her children inherit without interference from her husband's male relatives. Since the mother gets only one-eighth, she relies on her son(s) to support her--and also tends to indulge the boys to make sure they do so. Girls often rely on their brothers for the same reason.

It also helps explain Muslim women's fondness for jewelry gifts. Her jewelry is her property and is often bought and sold for the value of the gold or jewels (very little handicraft markup--the workmanship is pretty much just marketing). It is a store of value--if her husband has bought her a pile of jewelry it is not considered as part of his estate and she can sell it off to augment her inheritance.

This is in the Koran, it is not sharia as one PP keeps saying about various other aspects of Muslim life.

By the way, if the wife dies, her husband inherits one quarter of her property, one half if there are no children.

Islamic inheritance laws explain a lot about Islamic family culture.

You simply do not get it. The females are not out in the street, they are must be cared by male relatives. This is why inheritance laws gives men greater
inheritance. You make it sound as if the male family members would nor want to, that it would be burdensome for them, and that this sort of system fosters a disingenuous relationship so the mother can be reassured she is cared for. That makes no sense. Lets say Islam split the inheritance money evenly between male and females. The mother, usually elderly now and not in the job market, would still need to be supported to some degree by her children. Would she indulge her daughters now too since they received an equal portion of her husbands inheritance?

In the US the wife gets the inheritance. In an Islamic state, the son is compelled to care for his mother. Why are you hell bent on twisting this in six different ways to make Islam look bad?

[Anonymous]

This is NOTHING like the custody system of the US and the best interest of the child are completely disregarded over the rights of the state.

It is not in the best interest of the child to do this. This process sounds like something a cult would do to keep members from escaping.

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Perhaps something we can all agree on is it's not a good idea for a woman to go with her husband to an Islamic country to begin with.

Sometimes it can't be avoided, sometimes that's where the family or the job is. People are people, there are humans everywhere.

It can always be avoided.

There are jobs everywhere, in countries where a woman does not lose all her rights, including the rights to her children, just by crossing the border.

You have to realize that in an Islamic country, the greatest priority is on preservation of the religion. Individual rights exist, yes, and even for women contrary to the opinions expressed here. But those rights must be in the context of preserving religion first. So when a nonMuslim woman agrees to marry a man, and then chooses to live in an Islamic state, and when her husband dies, generally the state will give custody to the uncle or grandfather who is Muslim to ensure that child is raised as a Muslim. However, thats the Sharia. Remember that the Sharia is more restrictive and narrow in interpreting individual rights than the Quran.

It is inhumane, and any man who would put his wife in that potential situation is not worth marrying and certainly not worth converting to anything over.

Good for that doctor mentioned above for getting his wife and family out of such a horrific situation.

If an Islamic state gives 100% custody to nonMuslims, what would become of the Islam in "Islamic State"? What is more strange to me is why any woman would hate Islam so much that she "would rather die than convert" but yet marry a Muslim man. Luckily she had no kids but what if she did?

It's their MOTHER. Who cares about the Islamic state. Why is it the right of the "state" to give a child to some random male relative, just because of the mother's birth? Those are her children, not the states.

And if the state needs to do this to keep their "Islamic State" then that says a lot about their faith.

Do you know how custody is handled in the US? The best interests of the child standard usurps the rights of the parent, so if the parent is unfit then the other parent gets custody. If both are unfit, a relative will get custody. Same in the Islamic State but it is determined that raising the child as a Muslim IS in the best interest of a child.

Besides I do think the mother will get custody if the child is very young. She will have the right to wean her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you know how custody is handled in the US? The best interests of the child standard usurps the rights of the parent, so if the parent is unfit then the other parent gets custody. If both are unfit, a relative will get custody. Same in the Islamic State but it is determined that raising the child as a Muslim IS in the best interest of a child.

Besides I do think the mother will get custody if the child is very young. She will have the right to wean her.

Great, they'll use the mother a nurse and then take the child away. Awesome deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You have to realize that in an Islamic country, the greatest priority is on preservation of the religion. Individual rights exist, yes, and even for women contrary to the opinions expressed here. But those rights must be in the context of preserving religion first. So when a nonMuslim woman agrees to marry a man, and then chooses to live in an Islamic state, and when her husband dies, generally the state will give custody to the uncle or grandfather who is Muslim to ensure that child is raised as a Muslim. However, thats the Sharia. Remember that the Sharia is more restrictive and narrow in interpreting individual rights than the Quran.

Quran says nothing about custody.

Not true, it does. It says a very young child may be weaned by the mother. It also clearly says both parents should work together in an amicable cooperative way for the best interests of the child. The implication is, make the nonMuslim parent a part of the child's life if it is good for the child.

Its the Sharia that interprets the Quran so harshly. Do not confuse this with the Quran and falsely assert that it reflects the faith.

The Quran is addressed to Muslims. Not to non-Muslims. Everything is describes applies to Muslims only.

The implication you quoted is your own thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You simply do not get it. The females are not out in the street, they are must be cared by male relatives. This is why inheritance laws gives men greater
inheritance. You make it sound as if the male family members would nor want to, that it would be burdensome for them, and that this sort of system fosters a disingenuous relationship so the mother can be reassured she is cared for. That makes no sense. Lets say Islam split the inheritance money evenly between male and females. The mother, usually elderly now and not in the job market, would still need to be supported to some degree by her children. Would she indulge her daughters now too since they received an equal portion of her husbands inheritance?

In the US the wife gets the inheritance. In an Islamic state, the son is compelled to care for his mother. Why are you hell bent on twisting this in six different ways to make Islam look bad?

My dear, inheritance laws are enforced, culture is not. We can all safely assume that if male relatives have to be taken to court to compel them to pay maintenance, then there is not much goodwill left in the family.

The elderly mother can invest the money or buy property.

It doesn't take much to make this arrangement look bad.

[Anonymous]

In how many families are there male relatives going to court to compel them to care for their mother or sister? Provide the links, please.

[Anonymous]

Getting this thread BACK to the issue of conversion.

Here's a great British show examining the trend of rapid conversion to Islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbKqqai1V-c

Fascinating that some of these women started out reading the Quran to find proof of fault, then ended up converting.

[Anonymous]

Forci g a mother to either convert or give up her half NON muslim children is simply abhohent, as is forcing a NON muslim woman to give up her property and rely on alms from her inlaws just because she married a man who happened to be muslim.

Amazing that you can't see the wrong of this system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting this thread BACK to the issue of conversion.

Here's a great British show examining the trend of rapid conversion to Islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbKqqai1V-c

Fascinating that some of these women started out reading the Quran to find proof of fault, then ended up converting.

Here are some links about Muslims leaving Islam after they finally read the Quran:
http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/04/28/islamophobic-muslims-leave-islam-reading-quran/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Abul_Kasem_%28former_Muslim%29

Citing one link is stupid. It's not statistically valid in any sense. The only thing citing a single link does is to start a contest over who has the most links.

[Anonymous]

I read the Quran and was not tempted to convert, in fact quite the opposite.

DD read the Quran in high school and was, quite frankly, shocked. She actually told me, "this is not a religion of peace."

[Anonymous]

Forget the discrimination against non-Muslims.

A Muslim woman, even if keeps custody of children after the divorce, cannot retain custody if she remarries. All major madhabs agree on this. In that sense, women must choose between keeping their children and finding love and stability again.

In actual fact, a couple of my husband's relatives in KSA are now in second marriages they keep secret for fear of losing their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read the Quran and was not tempted to convert, in fact quite the opposite.

DD read the Quran in high school and was, quite frankly, shocked. She actually told me, "this is not a religion of peace."

Islam is not a religion of peace. It's a religion of submission. I mean, Islam is OK with peace but it doesn't privilege it over other outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Just to restate the blindingly obvious, in case someone just joined the discussion:

No one, nowhere, keeps statistics on how many people convert to Islam (or to anything else).

All numbers on converts you see are guesses.

GUESSES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read the Quran and was not tempted to convert, in fact quite the opposite.

DD read the Quran in high school and was, quite frankly, shocked. She actually told me, "this is not a religion of peace."

I don't think you can read the Quran and say it is a religion of violence. However, a huge amount of the Quran is devoted to the end of days and what happens if you go to hell--it is a bit harrowing, but not an exhortation to violence on earth; it is much like what one sees depicted in Hermonius Bosch's paintings that one finds hanging in museums.

In my view, if you've heard one harrowing description of the end of days and of hell, you've heard them all. The Quran has many iterations of this, which is one of the reasons I find it overall not very interesting. In Arabic, it is quite different because it is actually poetry so the language, meter, and sound all come together in a euphonious whole.

I suspect this is the real reason the vigilant defenders of the Quran, like some of the PPs here, insist you can't really understand the Quran unless you read it in Arabic. It is not really about understanding the words, but about being captured by the beauty of the language.