Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

Um, but the students who are "high performing" ARE getting enough instruction because they are performing well. If your kid is "high performing," doing well in school, ranking high (compared on a state and national level) on standardized tests, then what is the problem?????

I take issue with this constant drumbeat complaint on DCUM that people think their "high performing" kids aren't getting enough. Their kids are doing well, performing well, what's the problem???

They are doing well because the bar is low. The bar is low because in 2.0 you have to teach to the lowest common denominator. In a different environment, the bar would be higher and would push kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

But you are missing something. The schools are called "low performing" because the FARMS kids aren't scoring as high (likely because of language). It doesn't mean that your kid won't do well. Over and over again, studies show that education level of the parents has the biggest effect on academic success of the child.

Most high FARMS schools actually get extra resources, not less. Is your kid currently enrolled in a high FARMS school? How did your kid score on tests? I want to know how many people making this complaint about crappy schools due to FARMS kids actually have a kid in a school with a high FARMS rate. Is your kid behind on reading, writing? Is your kid not testing well?

If your kid is testing well, is not behind on reading, writing, math, then what is the problem?

When my kid spends 95% of his time in class doing busy work worksheets while the teacher (who told us the first time she met us that she aspires to teach at an up county school ASAP) bounces around the class assisting students who don't speak English, that's a problem. Just because my child is hitting the bar (very low bar, I should add), doesn't mean he's being taught to meet his potential. You hope that your child is being challenged and taught to meet the fullest of his abilities. But that's not possible with the current model. That's the problem.

And if you were honest with yourself, you'd agree that that's not what you'd want - or anyone would want - for your kid.

But I guess us down county folks should just shut up and eat cake, right? Take what you get and be happy. Ohhhhhh kaaaaaaay.

[Anonymous]

If your kid needs more, there are HGCs, middle school magnets, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid needs more, there are HGCs, middle school magnets, etc.

Those are for the top 2-3%. The complaints are from the 75-97%. Those children are smart and capable but not being challenged. The bar has been so lowered that these children look like they are excelling. Below 75% are getting the extra assistance they need. And while my exact percentages are off, you can understand the point and parents frustration.

[Anonymous]

"Those are for the top 2-3%. The complaints are from the 75-97%. Those children are smart and capable but not being challenged. The bar has been so lowered that these children look like they are excelling. Below 75% are getting the extra assistance they need. And while my exact percentages are off, you can understand the point and parents frustration."

Exactly. There might be a bit ess complaining in we did like Fairfax and had the top 20 pct in G&T instead. MCPS offerings that only allow in top 2% are nowhere near adequate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. There might be a bit less complaining in we did like Fairfax and had the top 20 pct in G&T instead. MCPS offerings that only allow in top 2% are nowhere near adequate.

From what I've seem on the DCUM boards on VA public schools and AAP (note the separate forum), there's plenty of complaining coming from Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid needs more, there are HGCs, middle school magnets, etc.

Those are for the top 2-3%. The complaints are from the 75-97%. Those children are smart and capable but not being challenged. The bar has been so lowered that these children look like they are excelling. Below 75% are getting the extra assistance they need. And while my exact percentages are off, you can understand the point and parents frustration.

The top 2-3% are exceptional.

Let them have their special programs.

And no, my kids are not in any HGC or magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those complaining about undocumented immigrants - stop it. It is racist, stupid, and pointless. The courts have ruled, and kids have a right to education regardless of immigration status.

Am I not entitled to a top rate education because I'm not wealthy enough or inclined to move to an all-white, wealthy enclave in MoCo? I should just put up and shut up because I happen to be middle class and unable to flee? That's elitism. So how about not throwing stones from your glass house?

And this quote times 1,000.

A court ruling doesn't always benefit society. Undocumented cases cause an unnecessary burden on the system. And yes, your children's education will suffer in some way.

However, with this influx, it's up to the system to be equitable. So if School X has high FARMs/high ESOL (the two are often connected), School X should be provided the following:

- the best teachers (who have signed on for X years to stay and who are compensated at a higher rate)
- free summer programs for all students even if families can afford it (remediation AND enrichment)
- technology that's update, computer labs and a media center that's a hub and place for parents/guardians to visit if they need resources
- strong connection to specialists from central office
- ongoing trainings for staff, particularly in the area of differentiation
- smaller class sizes
- co-taught SPED and ESOL classes
- daily electives (PE, art, music)
- healthy foods - and not the highly processed crap the cafeterias serve

There is no other way to level the playing field. Remember that equal doesn't mean equitable. And parents in the W schools will always find money for their children's schools. Illegals won't they're hiding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RunRunRunRunRun from the poor people!
Goood God ! FARMS families could be folks making almost $50,000 (about the average U.S. income) or $15,000.00
Some of you ...ughh...I just can't!!

Where do you live, PP? I ask because I find that the people who are most dismissive and contemptuous of the issues facing those of us living in the DCC and the challenges of our schools - especially those who characterize it as racism or elitism - don't even have children in the area or are at an affluent school.

Just because I'm middle class doesn't mean that I don't want and deserve a good education for my kids. I'm not running from poor people (heck, by DCUM standards I am a poor person - HHI < `$100k), I'm running from poor performing schools. When upwards of 60% of the third graders at my local elementary school don't pass the math and reading testing, when upwards of 70% of the 5th graders don't pass these tests, there is cause for worry.

When you blow of concerns about poor performance and paint it as elitism or racism and some of the other accusations on this thread, you not only distort the issues at hand, but you are doing a disservice to poor kids in this area. You don't think moms and dads of FARMS kids want their kids to go to schools where a MAJORITY of the kids pass basic state acheivement tests????

I live in the DCC!! And yes the way people refer "FARMS"
As if that is a different class of humans, an "other". Folks referring to ESOL like they are problems and not people.
That is elitist, racist, and IGNORANT. Recognizing the problems is TOTALLY different than looking at the people with that problem as if THEY ARE THE PROBLEM and not people. Yea MOFO that is racist and elitist... Deal with it!

So let me get this straight. According to you the only people who are concerned about poor performance at their local schools are racists? And they must be white and rich, right? Only white racists / rich people care about their local schools and the performance of those schools. Not middle class or working class people or African Americans or Latinos - oh no, they don't care about their local schools.

Who is the racist?

And there's no correlation between poverty and performance in Montgomery County? People in DCC should be grateful to get what they get. And the model that works well in Bethesda or Potomac should work at, say, the poorest performing school in DCC?

Who is the elitist?

Reading comprehension is a marvelous thing.
Let me try it this way so you have a better chance of understanding:

1) I did not say "white people" are racist -- I just said racist

2) If you assume "racist" equals "white people" that is on you

3) Yes there is a correlation between poverty and lack of eductation etc.

4) What I was speaking of was people refering to people as "FARMS", "ESOL" as if that is a class of people. There is a difference between saying there are people who are impoverished and what are the problems associated WITH poverty and how do we address those problems, and how do those problems possibly affect those who are not impoverished...AND 'FARMS are bringing our schools down, they are a bad influence on my kid'.
Do you get it?
There is a difference between the people with the problem and the people BEING the problem.
But something tells me you do not understand that.

[Anonymous]

New to this thread. Has anyone wondered if the DCC and NEC schools are delivering exactly what the families want?

[Anonymous]

"Anonymous
New to this thread. Has anyone wondered if the DCC and NEC schools are delivering exactly what the families want?"

Hunh? Are you asking if parents in DCCc area are satisfied with the poor state of the middle and high schools? What a bizarre question.

- DCCC parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

People are on welfare because illegals took their jobs working for less money so the rich get richer. And many many illegals are on government assistance. Don't be fooled.

Nope. There is no way these families would work the types of jobs these parents have. Cleaning, construction, landscaping, etc. No way. Why work your fingers to the bone for minimum wage when you can collect welfare?

I disagree and this is such a stereotype of many liberals.

Not the PP but we who worked these jobs before? I remember moms and teens working retail. The entire malls were teen/college workers on weekends and nights. Teens also did bussing services and hostess. Working McDonalds too. I think everyone in my high school worked in a fast food restaurant at one point. My BIL's had to close his landscaping/concrete business in 2003 because he paid legal american workers and no one wanted his fees. People rather hire illegal workers for cheaper to do their lawns and patios. That is where 90% of the legally owned landscaping businesses went. In my schools in the 70/80's the janitors were caucasian or african american and spoke English. And cleaning ladies were moms. It was their supplemental income for when they stayed at home. Oh and we own a construction type company. We won't/don't hire illegals because we do government jobs and need e-verify and security ability on everyone to enter government restricted areas. PLENTY of people line up for openings when we need more employees for the jobs. PLENTY. So I don't buy the crap that they "had" to come to the US because of all these jobs no one wanted. SOMEONE had them before they did, but they do jobs for pennies so CEO's and company owners can put more money in their back pockets. They were hired, legals were fired. CEO's took it to the bank.

Do you just assume that anti e who is Hispanic is illegal? Because I highly doubt the janitors and cleaning ladies working in the schools and govt buildings are illegal. If anyone is verifying documentation, they are. Maybe there weren't a lot of DARs lining up for those jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous
New to this thread. Has anyone wondered if the DCC and NEC schools are delivering exactly what the families want?"

Hunh? Are you asking if parents in DCCc area are satisfied with the poor state of the middle and high schools? What a bizarre question.

- DCCC parent

It would be nice if you had a better attitude.

I read threads where anonymous posters a happy with their DCC schools. Is it possible that a majority of parents at these schools are happy with the education provided by MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New to this thread. Has anyone wondered if the DCC and NEC schools are delivering exactly what the families want?

used to live in the NEC

People who weren't underwater with their homes moved.

lots of people, in fact

[Anonymous]

I know lots of people happy with the DCC. Kids are all in 8th grade now and excited about their choices for HS. They sort of pitty my kids who have no choices..