Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know lots of people happy with the DCC. Kids are all in 8th grade now and excited about their choices for HS. They sort of pitty my kids who have no choices..

Seriously? So, you kids are in DCC and happy with their choices? Or, do they live elsewhere and not have choices?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is MCPS any different then Fairfax? How could it be worse then wealthy New England towns that run their own school systems while leaving their more urban neighbors to struggle with needier students and fewer reasources. I grew up in an area like that. No one worried about the minority gap because there were few minorities. Great unless you were on the wrong side. Even the weaker schools in MCPS have more resources because it is a large district with pooled resources.

I grew up in a school like that too that was all white. Even today it's 95% white. Yet in a non-DCC "better" HS on that list, with the exception I think of Whitman, most of those HS are only about 60% white. I think that's pretty well integrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very hard to fix this problem now. If housing policy had been more focused on creating diversity of housing stock (socioeconomic) the problem would not be as bad as it is. BCC has more socioeconomic diversity than the W schools, and also less of a gap.

True. But if they keep tearing down perfectly fine housing in Bethesda and Chevy Chase, you'll see the gap change too. When we moved into Bethesda, there were plenty of teachers, government workers, police officers, etc. Now it seems like nearly everyone moving in is a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One key to a student's overall educational success is how involved are the parents in the educational process.

How easy is it for parents to know how their child is doing and if there is a problem, how easy is it for them to talk with staff to find out how they can help their child at home? What are the only times available for meetings at school?

In my opinion, MCPS fails at encourage parent participation. Many school assessments are labeled "secured" documents so parents have to make appointments during the work day if they want to see their child's tests and exams. Hard for families of single parents or families where both parents are working outside the home. Especially hard to do if you have a long commute to get to your job and/or if you have to rely on public transportation.

Bingo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those complaining about undocumented immigrants - stop it. It is racist, stupid, and pointless. The courts have ruled, and kids have a right to education regardless of immigration status.

Am I not entitled to a top rate education because I'm not wealthy enough or inclined to move to an all-white, wealthy enclave in MoCo? I should just put up and shut up because I happen to be middle class and unable to flee? That's elitism. So how about not throwing stones from your glass house?

And this quote times 1,000.

A court ruling doesn't always benefit society. Undocumented cases cause an unnecessary burden on the system. And yes, your children's education will suffer in some way.

However, with this influx, it's up to the system to be equitable. So if School X has high FARMs/high ESOL (the two are often connected), School X should be provided the following:

- the best teachers (who have signed on for X years to stay and who are compensated at a higher rate)
- free summer programs for all students even if families can afford it (remediation AND enrichment)
- technology that's update, computer labs and a media center that's a hub and place for parents/guardians to visit if they need resources
- strong connection to specialists from central office
- ongoing trainings for staff, particularly in the area of differentiation
- smaller class sizes
- co-taught SPED and ESOL classes
- daily electives (PE, art, music)
- healthy foods - and not the highly processed crap the cafeterias serve

There is no other way to level the playing field. Remember that equal doesn't mean equitable. And parents in the W schools will always find money for their children's schools. Illegals won't they're hiding.

Totally agree!
That's what mcps has been ding for the past 10-15 years!
The result? Gaps are still there, in both math and reading.
You forget one, the most important component to success: the parental involvement.
You can try very, very hard to teacher every kid comes to our school but if he/she doesn't care about learning, all your effort, money and emotion, cannot save them.
I feel the pain for people who live in DCC. If it was me, I will move to the school that my kid can learn. Remember, you don't have to own a house to live in these school distracts. Rent for a townhouse is around $1,800 to 2,500' and a SFH can be found as low as $2,500. Your kids will only go through school once in their life. Providing the best you can is your responsibility. Don't we say we will do anything for them when we heard their first cry?
Bring these low perform kids to Bethesda or Potomac will not make them a better students. Unless you can keep them in school 12 hours a day and 300 days a year, the gap will exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid needs more, there are HGCs, middle school magnets, etc.

Those are for the top 2-3%. The complaints are from the 75-97%. Those children are smart and capable but not being challenged. The bar has been so lowered that these children look like they are excelling. Below 75% are getting the extra assistance they need. And while my exact percentages are off, you can understand the point and parents frustration.

Perhaps MCPS should use the broader AAP as in Fairfax County. People on DCUM bitch about VA but FCPS does seem to do more to target resources to lower SES students or URM or ESL. Young Scholars is also a huge program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One key to a student's overall educational success is how involved are the parents in the educational process.

How easy is it for parents to know how their child is doing and if there is a problem, how easy is it for them to talk with staff to find out how they can help their child at home? What are the only times available for meetings at school?

In my opinion, MCPS fails at encourage parent participation. Many school assessments are labeled "secured" documents so parents have to make appointments during the work day if they want to see their child's tests and exams. Hard for families of single parents or families where both parents are working outside the home. Especially hard to do if you have a long commute to get to your job and/or if you have to rely on public transportation.

Bingo.

Until about 3yrs ago, the principal at my daughter's ES discouraged ANY form of email communication. It is insane how little they want parent feedback, volunteers, communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

But you are missing something. The schools are called "low performing" because the FARMS kids aren't scoring as high (likely because of language). It doesn't mean that your kid won't do well. Over and over again, studies show that education level of the parents has the biggest effect on academic success of the child.

Most high FARMS schools actually get extra resources, not less. Is your kid currently enrolled in a high FARMS school? How did your kid score on tests? I want to know how many people making this complaint about crappy schools due to FARMS kids actually have a kid in a school with a high FARMS rate. Is your kid behind on reading, writing? Is your kid not testing well?

If your kid is testing well, is not behind on reading, writing, math, then what is the problem?

When my kid spends 95% of his time in class doing busy work worksheets while the teacher (who told us the first time she met us that she aspires to teach at an up county school ASAP) bounces around the class assisting students who don't speak English, that's a problem. Just because my child is hitting the bar (very low bar, I should add), doesn't mean he's being taught to meet his potential. You hope that your child is being challenged and taught to meet the fullest of his abilities. But that's not possible with the current model. That's the problem.

And if you were honest with yourself, you'd agree that that's not what you'd want - or anyone would want - for your kid.

But I guess us down county folks should just shut up and eat cake, right? Take what you get and be happy. Ohhhhhh kaaaaaaay.

+1000

I volunteer once a week in my daughter's class. It is insane how little time a core group of kids gets and how much time her teacher has to try to communicate with 1/3 of the class. We are in Rockville and I thought the system was top notch but it is clear my kid is skating thru as an obvious average student. The concern at every PTA meeting is communication for the Spanish speaking but yet there is never ever one person of Hispanic/Spanish origin at these meetings. We had Hispanic family coffees once a month and even a movie night in Spanish. No turn out at coffee even thoigh form and listserv reminders were in Spanish. Movie night brought in 12 families. Anyway, every PTA meeting us Americans keep talking about finding ways/money to help them and I am so over it. They don't want to be a part. They are never involved. I want the time and effort to go to my kid sometimes. In the class and activities. If that is racist then so be it.

[Anonymous]

"I grew up in a school like that too that was all white. Even today it's 95% white. Yet in a non-DCC "better" HS on that list, with the exception I think of Whitman, most of those HS are only about 60% white. I think that's pretty well integrated."

If 90/95 percent are all relatively well off that is hardly "diversity". Real diversity is economic not just having families from the same fortunate background who happen to look different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One key to a student's overall educational success is how involved are the parents in the educational process.

How easy is it for parents to know how their child is doing and if there is a problem, how easy is it for them to talk with staff to find out how they can help their child at home? What are the only times available for meetings at school?

In my opinion, MCPS fails at encourage parent participation. Many school assessments are labeled "secured" documents so parents have to make appointments during the work day if they want to see their child's tests and exams. Hard for families of single parents or families where both parents are working outside the home. Especially hard to do if you have a long commute to get to your job and/or if you have to rely on public transportation.

Bingo.

Until about 3yrs ago, the principal at my daughter's ES discouraged ANY form of email communication. It is insane how little they want parent feedback, volunteers, communication.

You're generalizing from the former behavior of the principal at your daughter's ES to "them" (MCPS as a whole, I assume)? In my experience, "they" have always been forthcoming and responsive to my e-mails as well as my phone calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is MCPS any different then Fairfax? How could it be worse then wealthy New England towns that run their own school systems while leaving their more urban neighbors to struggle with needier students and fewer reasources. I grew up in an area like that. No one worried about the minority gap because there were few minorities. Great unless you were on the wrong side. Even the weaker schools in MCPS have more resources because it is a large district with pooled resources.

I grew up in a school like that too that was all white. Even today it's 95% white. Yet in a non-DCC "better" HS on that list, with the exception I think of Whitman, most of those HS are only about 60% white. I think that's pretty well integrated.

MCPS as a whole is 32% white (2012-2013). So, even if the proportion of white students were the only criterion for integration, then no, the school district wouldn't be pretty well integrated.

Plus, of course, the proportion of white students is NOT the only criterion for integration. I suggest that you look at the high schools by proportion of Hispanic students, proportion of black students, and proportion of FARMS students. There are some high schools (the "good" ones) where almost nobody is poor. And there are some high schools (the "bad" ones) where almost everybody is poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I grew up in a school like that too that was all white. Even today it's 95% white. Yet in a non-DCC "better" HS on that list, with the exception I think of Whitman, most of those HS are only about 60% white. I think that's pretty well integrated."

If 90/95 percent are all relatively well off that is hardly "diversity". Real diversity is economic not just having families from the same fortunate background who happen to look different.

+1

SES tends to override cultural differences.

Poor people have more in common across racial lines. Same for the wealthy.

I'm AA and grew up poor. My older daughter who grew up lower MC here in MoCo is so much more like her white classmates from Blair than she is like her AA cousins who grew up poor in various inner cities of the Mid-Atlantic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

But you are missing something. The schools are called "low performing" because the FARMS kids aren't scoring as high (likely because of language). It doesn't mean that your kid won't do well. Over and over again, studies show that education level of the parents has the biggest effect on academic success of the child.

Most high FARMS schools actually get extra resources, not less. Is your kid currently enrolled in a high FARMS school? How did your kid score on tests? I want to know how many people making this complaint about crappy schools due to FARMS kids actually have a kid in a school with a high FARMS rate. Is your kid behind on reading, writing? Is your kid not testing well?

If your kid is testing well, is not behind on reading, writing, math, then what is the problem?

When my kid spends 95% of his time in class doing busy work worksheets while the teacher (who told us the first time she met us that she aspires to teach at an up county school ASAP) bounces around the class assisting students who don't speak English, that's a problem. Just because my child is hitting the bar (very low bar, I should add), doesn't mean he's being taught to meet his potential. You hope that your child is being challenged and taught to meet the fullest of his abilities. But that's not possible with the current model. That's the problem.

And if you were honest with yourself, you'd agree that that's not what you'd want - or anyone would want - for your kid.

But I guess us down county folks should just shut up and eat cake, right? Take what you get and be happy. Ohhhhhh kaaaaaaay.

+1000

I volunteer once a week in my daughter's class. It is insane how little time a core group of kids gets and how much time her teacher has to try to communicate with 1/3 of the class. We are in Rockville and I thought the system was top notch but it is clear my kid is skating thru as an obvious average student. The concern at every PTA meeting is communication for the Spanish speaking but yet there is never ever one person of Hispanic/Spanish origin at these meetings. We had Hispanic family coffees once a month and even a movie night in Spanish. No turn out at coffee even thoigh form and listserv reminders were in Spanish. Movie night brought in 12 families. Anyway, every PTA meeting us Americans keep talking about finding ways/money to help them and I am so over it. They don't want to be a part. They are never involved. I want the time and effort to go to my kid sometimes. In the class and activities. If that is racist then so be it.

Do you have a Spanish representative to find out what the would rather do than coffee and a movie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I volunteer once a week in my daughter's class. It is insane how little time a core group of kids gets and how much time her teacher has to try to communicate with 1/3 of the class. We are in Rockville and I thought the system was top notch but it is clear my kid is skating thru as an obvious average student. The concern at every PTA meeting is communication for the Spanish speaking but yet there is never ever one person of Hispanic/Spanish origin at these meetings. We had Hispanic family coffees once a month and even a movie night in Spanish. No turn out at coffee even thoigh form and listserv reminders were in Spanish. Movie night brought in 12 families. Anyway, every PTA meeting us Americans keep talking about finding ways/money to help them and I am so over it. They don't want to be a part. They are never involved. I want the time and effort to go to my kid sometimes. In the class and activities. If that is racist then so be it.

Yes, they don't want to be a part OF THE PTA. They are never involved WITH THE COFFEES AND MOVIE NIGHT THE PTA HOLDS FOR THEM. That doesn't mean they don't want to be a part or be involved. It means that they don't want what the PTA is offering. (Note that many "Americans" don't either.)

What do they want? What do they want to be a part of? What do they want to be involved with? There's only one way for "the Americans" in the PTA to find out, and that's to ask them. (And not by holding Hispanic family coffees or movie night in Spanish, either -- you already know those don't work.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

But you are missing something. The schools are called "low performing" because the FARMS kids aren't scoring as high (likely because of language). It doesn't mean that your kid won't do well. Over and over again, studies show that education level of the parents has the biggest effect on academic success of the child.

Most high FARMS schools actually get extra resources, not less. Is your kid currently enrolled in a high FARMS school? How did your kid score on tests? I want to know how many people making this complaint about crappy schools due to FARMS kids actually have a kid in a school with a high FARMS rate. Is your kid behind on reading, writing? Is your kid not testing well?

If your kid is testing well, is not behind on reading, writing, math, then what is the problem?

When my kid spends 95% of his time in class doing busy work worksheets while the teacher (who told us the first time she met us that she aspires to teach at an up county school ASAP) bounces around the class assisting students who don't speak English, that's a problem. Just because my child is hitting the bar (very low bar, I should add), doesn't mean he's being taught to meet his potential. You hope that your child is being challenged and taught to meet the fullest of his abilities. But that's not possible with the current model. That's the problem.

And if you were honest with yourself, you'd agree that that's not what you'd want - or anyone would want - for your kid.

But I guess us down county folks should just shut up and eat cake, right? Take what you get and be happy. Ohhhhhh kaaaaaaay.

+1000

I volunteer once a week in my daughter's class. It is insane how little time a core group of kids gets and how much time her teacher has to try to communicate with 1/3 of the class. We are in Rockville and I thought the system was top notch but it is clear my kid is skating thru as an obvious average student. The concern at every PTA meeting is communication for the Spanish speaking but yet there is never ever one person of Hispanic/Spanish origin at these meetings. We had Hispanic family coffees once a month and even a movie night in Spanish. No turn out at coffee even thoigh form and listserv reminders were in Spanish. Movie night brought in 12 families. Anyway, every PTA meeting us Americans keep talking about finding ways/money to help them and I am so over it. They don't want to be a part. They are never involved. I want the time and effort to go to my kid sometimes. In the class and activities. If that is racist then so be it.

Have you considered that this might be because they are working? Most of the Latino students I have are from families in which the parents both work at night. The moms and dads usually work jobs where they are cleaning office buildings or may be in a restaurant. It is difficult to get time off in the evenings to come to a PTA meeting. When I worked Down County, we reserved the early afternoon parent-teacher conference slots for Latino students and they all filled in 2 days. Not a single Latino parent signed up for a slot after 5 pm. I also found that I could reach Ethiopian fathers by phone during the day, but not at night. So many of them are overnight taxi drivers who watch their own babies during the day so that mom can nanny for more affluent families or work in a nursing home.