Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

To those complaining about undocumented immigrants - stop it. It is racist, stupid, and pointless. The courts have ruled, and kids have a right to education regardless of immigration status.

Am I not entitled to a top rate education because I'm not wealthy enough or inclined to move to an all-white, wealthy enclave in MoCo? I should just put up and shut up because I happen to be middle class and unable to flee? That's elitism. So how about not throwing stones from your glass house?

And this quote times 1,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"They should cluster schools longitudinally. Would Potomac be inline with Wheaton or Glenmont "

ha! that'll be the day! Pigs would fly sooner than Potomac would permit that.

Agree with an earlier PP that the way to "save" the schools in the DCCC is to focus on reattracting and reassuring the middle class parents - of whatever race of course - about how their kids will do. The Blair magnet is so successful because it does just that - creates an environment where they can thrive and in turn captures those kids into the student body where they must interact with others in extracurriculars or specials classes presumably and their parents become part of the PTA. I live in a part of SS with a school that's roughly 2/3 FARM but there are MANY middle class homes around - they must either be sprinkled into other school clusters or else mostly using private or getting county waivers (a few of those in my neighborhood alone) though. If they were at our school instead it would help all the kids there. I say that as someone happy with the school so far but that realizes that more kids from middle class homes would be helpful too.

I feel for families in silver spring schools with high farms. Silver spring clustering seems to want to group kids in schools by ses. Other silver spring schools are going from strength to strength.

This is absolutely true at the ES level - grouped by SES with certain schools carrying the burden of low performing students at a higher rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"They should cluster schools longitudinally. Would Potomac be inline with Wheaton or Glenmont "

ha! that'll be the day! Pigs would fly sooner than Potomac would permit that.

Agree with an earlier PP that the way to "save" the schools in the DCCC is to focus on reattracting and reassuring the middle class parents - of whatever race of course - about how their kids will do. The Blair magnet is so successful because it does just that - creates an environment where they can thrive and in turn captures those kids into the student body where they must interact with others in extracurriculars or specials classes presumably and their parents become part of the PTA. I live in a part of SS with a school that's roughly 2/3 FARM but there are MANY middle class homes around - they must either be sprinkled into other school clusters or else mostly using private or getting county waivers (a few of those in my neighborhood alone) though. If they were at our school instead it would help all the kids there. I say that as someone happy with the school so far but that realizes that more kids from middle class homes would be helpful too.

I feel for families in silver spring schools with high farms. Silver spring clustering seems to want to group kids in schools by ses. Other silver spring schools are going from strength to strength.

This is absolutely true at the ES level - grouped by SES with certain schools carrying the burden of low performing students at a higher rate.

Families at these school are having to pay through their noses for private schools or stressed out about immersion or magnet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

+1

[Anonymous]

FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RunRunRunRunRun from the poor people!
Goood God ! FARMS families could be folks making almost $50,000 (about the average U.S. income) or $15,000.00
Some of you ...ughh...I just can't!!

Where do you live, PP? I ask because I find that the people who are most dismissive and contemptuous of the issues facing those of us living in the DCC and the challenges of our schools - especially those who characterize it as racism or elitism - don't even have children in the area or are at an affluent school.

Just because I'm middle class doesn't mean that I don't want and deserve a good education for my kids. I'm not running from poor people (heck, by DCUM standards I am a poor person - HHI < `$100k), I'm running from poor performing schools. When upwards of 60% of the third graders at my local elementary school don't pass the math and reading testing, when upwards of 70% of the 5th graders don't pass these tests, there is cause for worry.

When you blow of concerns about poor performance and paint it as elitism or racism and some of the other accusations on this thread, you not only distort the issues at hand, but you are doing a disservice to poor kids in this area. You don't think moms and dads of FARMS kids want their kids to go to schools where a MAJORITY of the kids pass basic state acheivement tests????

I live in the DCC!! And yes the way people refer "FARMS"
As if that is a different class of humans, an "other". Folks referring to ESOL like they are problems and not people.
That is elitist, racist, and IGNORANT. Recognizing the problems is TOTALLY different than looking at the people with that problem as if THEY ARE THE PROBLEM and not people. Yea MOFO that is racist and elitist... Deal with it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RunRunRunRunRun from the poor people!
Goood God ! FARMS families could be folks making almost $50,000 (about the average U.S. income) or $15,000.00
Some of you ...ughh...I just can't!!

Where do you live, PP? I ask because I find that the people who are most dismissive and contemptuous of the issues facing those of us living in the DCC and the challenges of our schools - especially those who characterize it as racism or elitism - don't even have children in the area or are at an affluent school.

Just because I'm middle class doesn't mean that I don't want and deserve a good education for my kids. I'm not running from poor people (heck, by DCUM standards I am a poor person - HHI < `$100k), I'm running from poor performing schools. When upwards of 60% of the third graders at my local elementary school don't pass the math and reading testing, when upwards of 70% of the 5th graders don't pass these tests, there is cause for worry.

When you blow of concerns about poor performance and paint it as elitism or racism and some of the other accusations on this thread, you not only distort the issues at hand, but you are doing a disservice to poor kids in this area. You don't think moms and dads of FARMS kids want their kids to go to schools where a MAJORITY of the kids pass basic state acheivement tests????

I live in the DCC!! And yes the way people refer "FARMS"
As if that is a different class of humans, an "other". Folks referring to ESOL like they are problems and not people.
That is elitist, racist, and IGNORANT. Recognizing the problems is TOTALLY different than looking at the people with that problem as if THEY ARE THE PROBLEM and not people. Yea MOFO that is racist and elitist... Deal with it!

.^^ meant to say that recognizing the problems of poverty is totally diffferent than looking at poor people like they are the problem and not human beings who have a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:11- Stop making sense. You are ruining the PPs desire to deport the "illegals" when many, many ESOL students are actually U.S. citizens. I teach ESOL students and if we are going to deport anyone, let's start with everyone on welfare. There are plenty of native born people who don't work because they'd rather just get handouts from the gov't. None of the parents of my ESOL students sit collecting free handouts around instead of working.

People are on welfare because illegals took their jobs working for less money so the rich get richer. And many many illegals are on government assistance. Don't be fooled.

Nope. There is no way these families would work the types of jobs these parents have. Cleaning, construction, landscaping, etc. No way. Why work your fingers to the bone for minimum wage when you can collect welfare?

I disagree and this is such a stereotype of many liberals.

Not the PP but we who worked these jobs before? I remember moms and teens working retail. The entire malls were teen/college workers on weekends and nights. Teens also did bussing services and hostess. Working McDonalds too. I think everyone in my high school worked in a fast food restaurant at one point. My BIL's had to close his landscaping/concrete business in 2003 because he paid legal american workers and no one wanted his fees. People rather hire illegal workers for cheaper to do their lawns and patios. That is where 90% of the legally owned landscaping businesses went. In my schools in the 70/80's the janitors were caucasian or african american and spoke English. And cleaning ladies were moms. It was their supplemental income for when they stayed at home. Oh and we own a construction type company. We won't/don't hire illegals because we do government jobs and need e-verify and security ability on everyone to enter government restricted areas. PLENTY of people line up for openings when we need more employees for the jobs. PLENTY. So I don't buy the crap that they "had" to come to the US because of all these jobs no one wanted. SOMEONE had them before they did, but they do jobs for pennies so CEO's and company owners can put more money in their back pockets. They were hired, legals were fired. CEO's took it to the bank.

As far as those on welfare, you do realize if they deported and gave welfare recipients 6 months sliding scale to get one of the many jobs now available before they lost welfare, it would save this country billions of dollars. But the government (Democratics especially) want welfare recipients. The more people depending on the government the better. If it means our taxes goes to paying them and also paying for illegal immigrants ESL/FARMS/Food Stamps so be it. The only person on the losing end is the middle class and our public education system. At the rate illegal immigrants are entering our county, most schools but certain areas of Potomac/Chevy Chase will be 50% FARMS/ESOL and like many other posters have mentioned it is a major issue at their school. So yes, I am concerned. I think just turning a blind eye is killing our schools. Immigration reform and securing the borders is a political game to play against each party. As long as we are all okay with having our taxes go towards it, nothing will be done and MCPS schools will continue to spiral down as they have the last 10-15yrs. Just like the middle class shrinking, the middle kids are getting less and less. It is either IB or ESL in our schools and the average kids are paying for it everyday. It does not work. You can put more and more money into it but it won't change. People like to think it will but it won't.

[Anonymous]

Another DCC lurker from the DCC who bailed for private...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RunRunRunRunRun from the poor people!
Goood God ! FARMS families could be folks making almost $50,000 (about the average U.S. income) or $15,000.00
Some of you ...ughh...I just can't!!

Where do you live, PP? I ask because I find that the people who are most dismissive and contemptuous of the issues facing those of us living in the DCC and the challenges of our schools - especially those who characterize it as racism or elitism - don't even have children in the area or are at an affluent school.

Just because I'm middle class doesn't mean that I don't want and deserve a good education for my kids. I'm not running from poor people (heck, by DCUM standards I am a poor person - HHI < `$100k), I'm running from poor performing schools. When upwards of 60% of the third graders at my local elementary school don't pass the math and reading testing, when upwards of 70% of the 5th graders don't pass these tests, there is cause for worry.

When you blow of concerns about poor performance and paint it as elitism or racism and some of the other accusations on this thread, you not only distort the issues at hand, but you are doing a disservice to poor kids in this area. You don't think moms and dads of FARMS kids want their kids to go to schools where a MAJORITY of the kids pass basic state acheivement tests????

I live in the DCC!! And yes the way people refer "FARMS"
As if that is a different class of humans, an "other". Folks referring to ESOL like they are problems and not people.
That is elitist, racist, and IGNORANT. Recognizing the problems is TOTALLY different than looking at the people with that problem as if THEY ARE THE PROBLEM and not people. Yea MOFO that is racist and elitist... Deal with it!

So let me get this straight. According to you the only people who are concerned about poor performance at their local schools are racists? And they must be white and rich, right? Only white racists / rich people care about their local schools and the performance of those schools. Not middle class or working class people or African Americans or Latinos - oh no, they don't care about their local schools.

Who is the racist?

And there's no correlation between poverty and performance in Montgomery County? People in DCC should be grateful to get what they get. And the model that works well in Bethesda or Potomac should work at, say, the poorest performing school in DCC?

Who is the elitist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

Unfortunately, plenty of people actually are saying these kids are bad -- namely, the "deport the illegals!" people. And I think that all of their yelling drowns out the voices of parents in Silver Spring like you.

[Anonymous]

certain areas of Potomac/Chevy Chase will be 50% FARMS/ESOL and like many other posters have mentioned it is a major issue at their school. So yes, I am concerned. I think just turning a blind eye is killing our schools. Immigration reform and securing the borders is a political game to play against each party. As long as we are all okay with having our taxes go towards it, nothing will be done and MCPS schools will continue to spiral down as they have the last 10-15yrs. Just like the middle class shrinking, the middle kids are getting less and less. It is either IB or ESL in our schools and the average kids are paying for it everyday. It does not work. You can put more and more money into it but it won't change. People like to think it will but it won't.

I teach in a W feeder school with many ESOL students. I doubt any of the kids are here illegal and few of their parents are. Instead, we get a large number of students from Asia, Africa, the Middle East (including Israel), and Eastern Europe. Their parents are well-educated professionals back home. Should their kids be consigned to low performing schools outside the W clusters or denied English language instruction as part of their education all together?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

But you are missing something. The schools are called "low performing" because the FARMS kids aren't scoring as high (likely because of language). It doesn't mean that your kid won't do well. Over and over again, studies show that education level of the parents has the biggest effect on academic success of the child.

Most high FARMS schools actually get extra resources, not less. Is your kid currently enrolled in a high FARMS school? How did your kid score on tests? I want to know how many people making this complaint about crappy schools due to FARMS kids actually have a kid in a school with a high FARMS rate. Is your kid behind on reading, writing? Is your kid not testing well?

If your kid is testing well, is not behind on reading, writing, math, then what is the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS doesn't always need to equal 'bad' kids. Many immigrant kids are incredibly hard working and they and their parents have a strong work ethic and desire to make it in this country.

Sorry, PP, but if you look at testing of local schools there is a very strong correlation between the percentage of FARMS students and school performance.

And please stop deflecting from the issue. NO ONE is saying these kids are "bad". But many of these kids have challenges such as learning English, spotty educational experiences in their countries of origin, poverty at home, parents who are working two-plus jobs each, parents who may / may not be involved in school work, that make it hard for them to excel in school. The result is that teachers at high-FARM schools are often spending a disproportionate amount of time teaching to those who are struggling. Those students who are average or high performing don't get much instruction.

It's getting really tiresome having to defend the fact that many of us in Silver Spring don't want to have to put up with crappy schools. It doesn't make us racist. It makes us concerned parents. Moreover, better schools will improve education for EVERYONE, including kids from low SES.

Um, but the students who are "high performing" ARE getting enough instruction because they are performing well. If your kid is "high performing," doing well in school, ranking high (compared on a state and national level) on standardized tests, then what is the problem?????

I take issue with this constant drumbeat complaint on DCUM that people think their "high performing" kids aren't getting enough. Their kids are doing well, performing well, what's the problem???