Why racial segregation is unacceptable but socioeconomic segregation is ok in private schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

You aren’t seeing wealthy public kids fleeing due to vouchers because unlike in AZ, where anyone can get a voucher, you have to submit an IRS form to prove need. The wealthy kids aren’t going to get much or any money from vouchers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t the whole point of private schools so people can avoid a certain kind of kid? Of course racial diversity can be “acceptable” if that kid can fit into a certain mold… but many private school parents send their kids to avoid a specific type of kid (most always from a very poor background and likely abusive home). People openly admit this on DCUM because it’s anonymous. People threaten to move all the time to escape specific schools that have a lot of at risk kids. The annoying part of all of it are the people who claim to care about equity and equality and virtue signal about it but then don’t walk the walk. I know too many of them.

You guys think too much of yourselves. Having less money does not mean that your household is likely to be abusive. Just because someone comes from a lower socioeconomic status doesn’t mean they need more help. There are plenty of students that lack means that have the talent and aptitude to succeed at these schools. And just because one can afford to pay in full doesn’t mean that your child is more capable. If you know anything about admissions in higher education, full pays tends to have inferior academic credentials than students that receive tuition discounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t the whole point of private schools so people can avoid a certain kind of kid? Of course racial diversity can be “acceptable” if that kid can fit into a certain mold… but many private school parents send their kids to avoid a specific type of kid (most always from a very poor background and likely abusive home). People openly admit this on DCUM because it’s anonymous. People threaten to move all the time to escape specific schools that have a lot of at risk kids. The annoying part of all of it are the people who claim to care about equity and equality and virtue signal about it but then don’t walk the walk. I know too many of them.

Many of us don’t virtue signal.

Yes, OP, it’s fine with me. If a poor kid gets a scholarship and has to work to maintain that with grades and behavior, then we are happy to have them.

Rich kids struggle with grades and behavior too, please stop perpetuating supremacy based on income. In fact rich kids can and do struggle, as many seek private schooling to coddle their kids with weak academic skills. Also there are a lot of smart people in DC that self select out of big law or jobs where you can maximize wealth. Often these ppl who self select out are more intelligent, learned, and credentialed than those who cling to their corporate gigs b/c it’s the best thing that ever happened to them. Get over yourself, you aren’t that impressive nor are you or your progeny as smart as you think you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am new to dc and I noticed the stark difference between the two types of segregation. Private schools are happy if they are racially diverse, but not so happy to be diverse in terms of socioeconomic groups. If find this attitude a bit schizophrenic. Do you think this is ok?

I think it’s great. There is enough diversity with scholarships and other things like that given to particularly meritorious students. This is how it should be. I live in an extremely expensive area with high-end real estate, but our local MCPS high school is a disaster because you simply cannot keep out lower income families where the kids have real behavioral issues. It’s very scary, there is violence, shootings, kids with ankle monitoring bands and more. This is not good for the kids. And although my kids are not being raised in a bubble, I like that most of their friends can have similar lifestyle to them and aspire to the same type of lives as grown-ups. People in this country really underestimate how mixing up so economic diversity is also difficult for the kids. We need to stop using kids social experiments and aspire to better.

These are literally the arguments used to justify racial segregation in the Jim Crow era.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Interesting but not thought out. Maybe if public schools also got as much funding per pupil as private schools, this might make sense. But then there wouldn’t be very many private schools.

You are an idiot. Public schools (particularly in this area) already get more funding per pupil than private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Interesting but not thought out. Maybe if public schools also got as much funding per pupil as private schools, this might make sense. But then there wouldn’t be very many private schools.

You are an idiot. Public schools (particularly in this area) already get more funding per pupil than private schools.

You are saying DC public schools spend more than 60k per pupil each year? Do some reading. I think half your brain is missing or you have led in your pipes.

[Anonymous]

You are dumb as hell. You think that the private school gets 60k per pupil?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

You aren’t seeing wealthy public kids fleeing due to vouchers because unlike in AZ, where anyone can get a voucher, you have to submit an IRS form to prove need. The wealthy kids aren’t going to get much or any money from vouchers.

Yo get priority in TX for LDs and ADHD counts, even for my gifted straight A student. So MC kids will just get a diagnosis, many already have one. After LDs, priority is income based then lottery based. It’s a test program - and eventually they want to extend this to ALL students - it’s the goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

You sound republican

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t the whole point of private schools so people can avoid a certain kind of kid? Of course racial diversity can be “acceptable” if that kid can fit into a certain mold… but many private school parents send their kids to avoid a specific type of kid (most always from a very poor background and likely abusive home). People openly admit this on DCUM because it’s anonymous. People threaten to move all the time to escape specific schools that have a lot of at risk kids. The annoying part of all of it are the people who claim to care about equity and equality and virtue signal about it but then don’t walk the walk. I know too many of them.

You guys think too much of yourselves. Having less money does not mean that your household is likely to be abusive. Just because someone comes from a lower socioeconomic status doesn’t mean they need more help. There are plenty of students that lack means that have the talent and aptitude to succeed at these schools. And just because one can afford to pay in full doesn’t mean that your child is more capable. If you know anything about admissions in higher education, full pays tends to have inferior academic credentials than students that receive tuition discounts.

Actually it does- statistically

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a rich person myself I cannot stand private school parents. They absolutely positively think their kids are too special to go to school with kids without money and don’t think their kids can possibly learn something and be better off from the experience. It’s pathetic.

That is why financial aid programs exist. Not sure what your beef is.

The top DC privates are not overrun with poor kids on financial aid and you know it.

Some of us would say so. Financial aid is extremely generous.

At Sidwell, 77 percent of student are full pay at $60k while the other 23 percent pay on average $20k. How “generous” is that? The average “poor” kid pays $20k a year for high school.

What a joke. These are rich kid schools. Full stop. And everyone knows it, including the kids. I did not want that for my own rich kids.

No one is making you send your kids to private schools. This seems like pages of absurdly obvious comments that gets extended by folks confirming the clear. Private schools are expensive and therefore exclusionary, but for financial aid. Hard stop. No one is under any kind of illusion that it's something different, it's that we are paying for a premium product because we think it's better and we can afford it. Nice restaurants don't offer financial aid and are filled with wealthy people. Is that equally problematic? I fly in business or first class...most don't. Is that an issue for you?

Wealthy people, rightly or wrongly but definitionally, can afford to purchase things that less wealthy folks cannot. Is that breaking news is some way?

Yes, but airlines or nice restaurants don’t print in their tickets or menus the label of social justice, so they are not deceiving anyone.

No idea why you think we care about social justice or socioeconomic equality.

This is just a school for our kids. We don’t care about that stuff. Move on.

But the schools you send your kids to pretend to. We prefer dealing with honest brokers.

I thought you don’t send your kids there so how are you dealing with them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

You aren’t seeing wealthy public kids fleeing due to vouchers because unlike in AZ, where anyone can get a voucher, you have to submit an IRS form to prove need. The wealthy kids aren’t going to get much or any money from vouchers.

Yo get priority in TX for LDs and ADHD counts, even for my gifted straight A student. So MC kids will just get a diagnosis, many already have one. After LDs, priority is income based then lottery based. It’s a test program - and eventually they want to extend this to ALL students - it’s the goal.

Nobody knows what they are going to get and the enrollment period hasn't even ended. I have kids in TX private schools and nobody is coming or going based on this at this time. And before you get too excited, I lived in AZ and got funds from their program and it was about $7500/kid. Nice, but not a full ride either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was ridiculous and not worth all the analysis. I’m going to go be productive with my day.

This. OP is trying to make some grad point, but it's obtuse.

She should go back to civics and econ class and get a better grip on the problem that's actually needling her (ie, widened income distribution due to inflated asset values).

Sure, so socioeconomic segregation is fine in private schools I guess.

It’s fine in ward 8 too. Nobody’s bothering them to get in and desegregate their schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

You aren’t seeing wealthy public kids fleeing due to vouchers because unlike in AZ, where anyone can get a voucher, you have to submit an IRS form to prove need. The wealthy kids aren’t going to get much or any money from vouchers.

Yo get priority in TX for LDs and ADHD counts, even for my gifted straight A student. So MC kids will just get a diagnosis, many already have one. After LDs, priority is income based then lottery based. It’s a test program - and eventually they want to extend this to ALL students - it’s the goal.

Nobody knows what they are going to get and the enrollment period hasn't even ended. I have kids in TX private schools and nobody is coming or going based on this at this time. And before you get too excited, I lived in AZ and got funds from their program and it was about $7500/kid. Nice, but not a full ride either.

Exactly!! As stated before - it’s a discount for those that don’t need one and would do private anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could suggest that private schools provide more financial aid for lower SES families, to include full tuition, and not provide financial aid for families making $250,000 in the area. The financial aid money could be used to support fewer students but students that would increase the SES diversity at the schools.

How many topics in this forum are focused on the question of who gets financial aid and why is that money going to families that are making a good amount of money. They should be able to afford the price tag, even if they have to sacrifice a new car or going on expensive vacations.

Low SES families are too expensive. Beyond tuition they need lots of resources back at home to be successful. You could easily have to spend much more than the annual tuition on each kid to bring them up to speed.

These private schools exist as businesses that have to compete in a competitive market with large operating expenses.

Public school exists to meet whatever larger social goals you want. Free access to education already exists. Public schools should be your focus on any changes that you want.

Every poor person isn’t dumb. Testing exists.