Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember this from law school. The only “kid” with an accommodation was the “bro” with the rich family. All this sssst about “slow processing” and specific versions of “adhd” that just amount to “let my kid take the test at their own speed but yours has to do it timed.” More for the rich, once again, undermining the truly needy.

Yes. I have really been struggling with the explosion in ADHD diagnoses in recent years because my law school experience was a lot of rich, privileged kids recommending doctors who would give them an ADHD diagnosis no questions asked so they could get stimulants without having to find a dealer before exams.

I also had a roommate in law school who invented a carpal tunnel diagnosis that her doctor father gave her so that she could be assigned a notetaker who would compile notes for all her classes, and get unlimited time for exams. She was pretty up front that she'd faked it to get an edge. I was horrified but most people didn't seem to care. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" as they say.

Rich kids have been playing this game for a while, it's just gotten more elaborate and universities started playing alone way too easily in an effort to be "inclusive." It's mostly BS.

I just wanted to say that carpal tunnel is a valid diagnosis. Also, I seriously doubt your friend had unlimited time. It was most likely time and a half.

I have accommodations for repetitive stress injuries (the umbrella under which carpal tunnel falls) in law school. I had time and a half and a typist, because I had to dictate my exams. Trust me, dictating an exam to someone who is typing it takes a lot longer than typing it yourself. It SUCKED. It was really hard to get through law school and the bar exam that way. It absolutely is a valid diagnosis for which accommodation is justified. There were people in my class who thought my disability was fake / unjustified / etc. The dean who was in charge of getting me notes actually told me that someone who reached out to turned him down because she suspected they were for me and she did not think my disability was real!

It was awful. and it made my law school experience SO much worse.

It's really important to err on the side of believing people about their health issues and disabilities. One of the worst things about a disability can be how people react.

I still remember the people who were nice about it and the people who sucked - in work and school.

Now I know to keep it very quiet and tell as few people as possible.

I didn't say carpal tunnel couldn't be a real diagnosis, only that my roommates was fake. She had her dad diagnose her because her first semester grades were middling and she wanted to ensure she could bring up her 1st year GPA before fall interview season. She was fairly transparent about it and it was an open secret. She also got extra time for her law review packet (though still did not make law review).

I think it's weird that you wouldn't be even more annoyed by people who game the system to get accommodations, since you actually need them. A major reason people didn't believe you had a disability is because of people like that who fake disabilities to get ahead. It's like those vets who were gaming the disability system to get huge payments. All it does is make people suspicious of other veterans with disabilities, and wonder if they too are lying. It's really toxic. But it does happen, more now than it used to because schools and employers are so afraid of questioning anything and risking bad press or a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

My kid with a 5% processing speed misses lunch half the time to complete assignments and tests that he couldn't finish within the class period and comes home sad some days because he never gets to see his friends at school. I'd trade his "50% extra time" that some seem so envious of for his having the ability to complete work as quickly as his neurotypical peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, no. You don’t know what you are talking about. The basis for “extended time” is the discrepancy between academic achievement and an IQ test only when adequate academic progress is not being made. . The vast majority of IQ tests have a timed component. The fact that you do not know that is, to say the least, revealing.

The SAT, as the College Board explicitly states, is an achievement test. It's why they dropped "aptitude" from the label.

"The SAT is an achievement test that measures the knowledge and skills students learn in high school that are needed for college and career success."

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/concordance/higher-ed-brief-clt-sat

Wechsler is the most widely used intelligence test. In the WAIS-IV, there are 15 subtests. Of these, five or six are timed (the majority of which are processing speed subtests, so duh). The remainder are not.

While there are 15 subtests, the subtests there are only 7 that make up the FULL scale IQ score and three more that are really given as well to make up the standard battery of ten subtests. Out of these 10, 7 are timed, have time limits or you are exposed to the item for a certain amount of seconds.

Similarities (not timed, find how words go together)
Vocabulary (not timed, define words)
Block Design (timed, bonus for faster performance)
Matrix Reasoning
Figure Weights (timed limit on each question) another fluid reasoning test
Digit Sequencing (only can listen once at set speed of digits dictated)
Coding (timed)

3 more make up the most common 5 Index Scores - Verbal, Spatial, Fluid, Working Memory and Processing Speed
Picture Span (only shown for set time limit)
Visual Puzzles (time limit)
Symbol Search (timed)


Someone earlier posted the reason for getting extra time for a ridiculous amount of students. They don't catch on as quickly as other students in AP/honors classes so without accommodations they would be B/C students in those classes. Or the parents think it isn't fair their children have to study more than the students who catch on to that subject really quickly. That used to be acceptable for many parents but now it isn't so they get testing. Often their full scale IQ is around 105 to 115 (around 63rd to 84th percentile rank). The outside psychologist writes it up as if any low subtest score shouldn't be counted so their "real" IQ score should be higher. So they diagnosis a disability and advocate the student should get accommodations.

You know who rarely gets accommodations? Asian students. Most Asian parents don't buy into the whole IQ concept and tell their kids - work harder. Their mindset is - If it takes you twice as long to get an A, that is the amount you need to study. If you need to work all summer to preview a class to understand it, then we will get all the books you want so you can study and we are going to insist that you do. It is hard to score low in processing speed if you have done Kumon math for 5+ years. It is all about speed and accuracy page after page after page.

And when you do that over a lifetime, your IQ actually increases. There have been several studies that show IQ is malleable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

My kid with a 5% processing speed misses lunch half the time to complete assignments and tests that he couldn't finish within the class period and comes home sad some days because he never gets to see his friends at school. I'd trade his "50% extra time" that some seem so envious of for his having the ability to complete work as quickly as his neurotypical peers.

not sure an top college is going to be the best place for someone struggling with HS work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

My kid with a 5% processing speed misses lunch half the time to complete assignments and tests that he couldn't finish within the class period and comes home sad some days because he never gets to see his friends at school. I'd trade his "50% extra time" that some seem so envious of for his having the ability to complete work as quickly as his neurotypical peers.

Your kid is not getting proper “modifications”. If the kid is in private, public does this better. If the kid is in public, kid needs shorter assignments and tests that still can test his understanding - special ed teacher should design them or teacher should shorten them. Call an IEP meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, no. You don’t know what you are talking about. The basis for “extended time” is the discrepancy between academic achievement and an IQ test only when adequate academic progress is not being made. . The vast majority of IQ tests have a timed component. The fact that you do not know that is, to say the least, revealing.

The SAT, as the College Board explicitly states, is an achievement test. It's why they dropped "aptitude" from the label.

"The SAT is an achievement test that measures the knowledge and skills students learn in high school that are needed for college and career success."

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/concordance/higher-ed-brief-clt-sat

Wechsler is the most widely used intelligence test. In the WAIS-IV, there are 15 subtests. Of these, five or six are timed (the majority of which are processing speed subtests, so duh). The remainder are not.

While there are 15 subtests, the subtests there are only 7 that make up the FULL scale IQ score and three more that are really given as well to make up the standard battery of ten subtests. Out of these 10, 7 are timed, have time limits or you are exposed to the item for a certain amount of seconds.

Similarities (not timed, find how words go together)
Vocabulary (not timed, define words)
Block Design (timed, bonus for faster performance)
Matrix Reasoning
Figure Weights (timed limit on each question) another fluid reasoning test
Digit Sequencing (only can listen once at set speed of digits dictated)
Coding (timed)

3 more make up the most common 5 Index Scores - Verbal, Spatial, Fluid, Working Memory and Processing Speed
Picture Span (only shown for set time limit)
Visual Puzzles (time limit)
Symbol Search (timed)


Someone earlier posted the reason for getting extra time for a ridiculous amount of students. They don't catch on as quickly as other students in AP/honors classes so without accommodations they would be B/C students in those classes. Or the parents think it isn't fair their children have to study more than the students who catch on to that subject really quickly. That used to be acceptable for many parents but now it isn't so they get testing. Often their full scale IQ is around 105 to 115 (around 63rd to 84th percentile rank). The outside psychologist writes it up as if any low subtest score shouldn't be counted so their "real" IQ score should be higher. So they diagnosis a disability and advocate the student should get accommodations.

You know who rarely gets accommodations? Asian students. Most Asian parents don't buy into the whole IQ concept and tell their kids - work harder. Their mindset is - If it takes you twice as long to get an A, that is the amount you need to study. If you need to work all summer to preview a class to understand it, then we will get all the books you want so you can study and we are going to insist that you do. It is hard to score low in processing speed if you have done Kumon math for 5+ years. It is all about speed and accuracy page after page after page.

And when you do that over a lifetime, your IQ actually increases. There have been several studies that show IQ is malleable.

Stick to your new profession. Or, please stop posting until you understand the discrepancy model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Actually, some universities would prefer the latter, if the student is getting all the answers right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Actually, some universities would prefer the latter, if the student is getting all the answers right.

What's your evidence for that? Do name the universities have stated that want students that are fastest at completing the multiple choice exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Processing speed is a big part of IQ. Actually, you cannot have a very high IQ with low processing speed. Processing speed is super “g-loaded.” Nothing incorrect about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Actually, some universities would prefer the latter, if the student is getting all the answers right.

Mental speed, agility and quick wit are not worthless. Especially in future leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will no longer subscribe to the Atlantic or even add traffic to their site, but I can imagine what the rest of the article is like. You know what the solution is to this 'problem'? Give everyone extra time - it is ridiculous, particularly at the college level, to think one person is smarter or better educated or better prepared because it takes them less time to solve a problem or write an essay than the next person.

Yea, time to complete is a marker of intelligence. If it takes you hours to solve a problem someone does in 20 minutes you are not as smart as them. The world doesn’t have infinite time to allow the slowest to catch up.

What you’re pointing out is not everyone is meant to go to college.

But we're not talking about 20 minutes vs. hours. We're talking about a contrived situation--a, say, 45 min to 3 hour timed exam--that isn't reflective of how virtually anyone works in the real world. And kids with extended time typically get 1.5x time. Not hours vs. 20 minutes.

I'm all for universal design, where we design assessments where feasible to make the "accommodation" accessible to all. That means 24 or 48 hour take home exams with word limits, in some cases. It means research papers. It means making the time limit such that time isn't a barrier unless speed is the very thing being tested.

But that is not the purpose of grades or scores such as in the SAT. It’s not supposed to be the real world. A college can take only one student, Bill or Bob. They made the same score on the SAT but Bob had extended time. Therefore, Bill is smarter and should be the one accepted.

+1 Again not everyone should go to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Actually, some universities would prefer the latter, if the student is getting all the answers right.

Mental speed, agility and quick wit are not worthless. Especially in future leaders.

No one said they were worthless. But anyone stating that people with low processing speed aren't intelligent and don't belong at elite universities is a bloviating dimwit. Albert Einstein was considered to have learning disabilities, and there has been speculation that according to modern diagnostic criteria he could have had a combination of ADHD, autism, dyslexia and dyspraxia. I guess some posters would think he wouldn't deserve a place at an elite university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Processing speed is a big part of IQ. Actually, you cannot have a very high IQ with low processing speed. Processing speed is super “g-loaded.” Nothing incorrect about that.

Wrong. There are people with very low processing speeds who have very high IQs. Some studies have found that up to 20% of gifted individuals may have slower processing speeds. Try reading some actual scientific literature--for example about neural efficiency, which suggests that highly intelligent individuals might actually use their brain resources more efficiently, resulting in what appears to be slower processing.