A very uncomfortable situation- how to handle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Couldn't agree more. America should withdraw our support for the war "over there". No support for Israel (they are crazy), no support for Palestine (too different). No weapons, no money, no aid.

That's what your craziness is bringing to the American people. Like - why should I care? I'm an American Christian - this has NOTHING to do with me. Why do I want my tax dollars going over there? I dont.

American Christians are ALL about Israel. Why don't you see the connection. Check out Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz if you need a refresher.

You sound unhinged. The point is I disagree with murder - genocide is murder- why should my money support that. And yes, as an American Christian I am totally detached and quite frankly could care less what the talking heads say. Don't tell me to watch (F)ucker Carlson or whatever atrocity Fox is displaying. I don't need to be told how to believe or think - I can do that myself. So THIS American is not at "ALL about Isreal", nor am I all about Palestine. I'd rather divert the conversation to global climate change which will kill way more people in the long run.

How am I unhinged? You clearly do not follow what is happening in the world today. The entire right wing, the Christian Nationalists have always fully embraced Israel because of their belief of the end times. Lol. This isn't conjecture, this is widely understood. This is WHY this whole election was so effed up. His first term divided the right and left. The second term divided the left- using this problem as bait. You need a heads up on:
1. Lobbying
2. Voting blocks within the communities ( both Muslim and Jewish as well as the Christian nationalist movement)
3. Israeli relationship with all other countries, particularly ours
4. Religious/ ethnic ideology with regards to the Middle East.

Maybe this is above your pay grade(?) You reality have some work to do.

Clearly it is above your pay grade to see people as individuals. I said I'm a Christian American and you painted me with a white Christian nationalist brush. Isn't that the same as saying all Jews are like OP's friend. I'm an individual with independent thoughts, so are most of the Jews I know - and many of then don't agree with what is going on. And because you are clearly the one with the mental deficit - let me use simple words - i do follow the news, but it doesn't make me care about everything because there are bigger things (like climate change) that impact me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok why is this increasingly unhinged thread in Religion and not Politics?

It's not unhinged.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

Agree 100%. So many people are morally inconsistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

Good to hear.

Sounds like you wouldn't be friends with Zionists either I hope since ethno-supremacism and racism are core principles of their ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

Criticizing Israel's military actions: not antisemitic, I agree.

Calling it "cunning" to suggest that it is antisemitic to criticize Israel's military actions: possibly antisemitic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am friends with a group from my sons school. We get together once a month for lunch or dinner.

So happens we went out for lunch today for our monthly get together. We are a real mix of personalities. Of the 8 of us, 2 are Jewish the rest are mixed religions. We all never bring up politics or religion as an unspoken rule however today the most outspoken of the bunch came out and blasted Israel for what they are doing. She really unloaded, once she got started, she didn't let up (with encouragement from others). We were all kind of surprised and in shock at first. One of the moms (Jewish) is married to a christian husband and is not religious and was one of the first to agree. Then a few others did too. The other Jewish mom however did not take this well. She started to defend whats going on then abruptly got up and said she had to leave early.

Of all the moms, shes the one I am the least close with but I feel badly for how it went. I want to call her just to see how shes doing because I know it was upsetting to her. Not to say I agree with her at all but shes human and no doubt felt really outnumbered as the "ringleader" came on really strong. Should I call or leave it alone?

BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

Good to hear.

Sounds like you wouldn't be friends with Zionists either I hope since ethno-supremacism and racism are core principles of their ideology

.

This is just BS.

Zionism is the belief that Jews have right to self-sovereignty. All citizens inside Israel have equal rights, regardless or race or religion or ethnicity.
(That is the only country, BTW, in the ME where this is true)

By the way -- racists against whom? Jews come in every color, maybe you didn't know that.

I notice no one cares there are more than 25 officially Muslim countries in the world -- most in MENA. I guess it's not an evil ethno-state if it's run by Muslims or Christians, right? Just Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

Good to hear.

Sounds like you wouldn't be friends with Zionists either I hope since ethno-supremacism and racism are core principles of their ideology

.

This is just BS.

Zionism is the belief that Jews have right to self-sovereignty. All citizens inside Israel have equal rights, regardless or race or religion or ethnicity.
(That is the only country, BTW, in the ME where this is true)

By the way -- racists against whom? Jews come in every color, maybe you didn't know that.

I notice no one cares there are more than 25 officially Muslim countries in the world -- most in MENA. I guess it's not an evil ethno-state if it's run by Muslims or Christians, right? Just Jews.

Ah you're one of those so called progressives except Palestine. No, Palestinian citizens do not enjoy the same rights as others. There are more than 65 discriminatory laws against them. And just look at they are treated at the moment. They are being refused entry at bomb shelters, and many of their cities lack shelters, and often are on the outskirts of the iron dome. I could go on and on.

It's good that you recognize Israel is an ethnostate and not a democracy. I hope you realize an apartheid state is inherently racist.

And even within the Jewish population, they're not treated equally. There is a long history of discrimination against non-Ashkenazi. I mean It is well known that there was an incident where they were sterilizing Ethiopian Jews. Surely you're aware of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

Good to hear.

Sounds like you wouldn't be friends with Zionists either I hope since ethno-supremacism and racism are core principles of their ideology.

Gotta reject your uplift of white supremacy , David Duke vibes. Your racism and hate free no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s cunning and dishonest to call criticism of a country’s military actions antisemitism and a personal attack.

When criticise Putin killing civilians in Ukraine I’m not anti-Russian.

Of course, the genocide gets carried out with political support of the people, but not the entire nation supports it.

I would not be friends with people who support genocide though. I would not be friends with people who support Putin just like I’m not friends with Trumpers. And I would not be friends who support what is being done in Gaza. That is a moral bankruptcy in my eyes.

I wouldn't be friends with people ignorant enough use racist tropes like the word "cunning" in connection with Jews or uppity in connection with Jews/Black people, etc. I wouldn't be friends with people who apply brown paper tests to countries they care about (white Palestinians vs. 530,000 children killed in current Sudan genocide). Because that level of racism requires a non-functioning moral compass - just like I'm not friends with Trumpers. Or people who misuse the word genocide, or think rape is resistance, etc.

Good to hear.

Sounds like you wouldn't be friends with Zionists either I hope since ethno-supremacism and racism are core principles of their ideology

.

This is just BS.

Zionism is the belief that Jews have right to self-sovereignty. All citizens inside Israel have equal rights, regardless or race or religion or ethnicity.
(That is the only country, BTW, in the ME where this is true)

By the way -- racists against whom? Jews come in every color, maybe you didn't know that.

I notice no one cares there are more than 25 officially Muslim countries in the world -- most in MENA. I guess it's not an evil ethno-state if it's run by Muslims or Christians, right? Just Jews.

Ah you're one of those so called progressives except Palestine. No, Palestinian citizens do not enjoy the same rights as others. There are more than 65 discriminatory laws against them. And just look at they are treated at the moment. They are being refused entry at bomb shelters, and many of their cities lack shelters, and often are on the outskirts of the iron dome. I could go on and on.

It's good that you recognize Israel is an ethnostate and not a democracy. I hope you realize an apartheid state is inherently racist.

And even within the Jewish population, they're not treated equally. There is a long history of discrimination against non-Ashkenazi. I mean It is well known that there was an incident where they were sterilizing Ethiopian Jews. Surely you're aware of that.

You are parroting neo-Nazi talking points, but surely you know that. You’re one of those so called bigot progressives that disguises their sadism and racism against Jews in virtue - and gave exactly two effs for any Palestinians gassed by Syria, or mass-killed by Jordan, etc. Who applauds wildly at actual apartheid in Gaza and cheers the rape and torture of women in Iran for the sin of uncovering their hair. Congrats - you have ruined the Democratic Party and gave us your sister in ideology, MTG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Couldn't agree more. America should withdraw our support for the war "over there". No support for Israel (they are crazy), no support for Palestine (too different). No weapons, no money, no aid.

That's what your craziness is bringing to the American people. Like - why should I care? I'm an American Christian - this has NOTHING to do with me. Why do I want my tax dollars going over there? I dont.

American Christians are ALL about Israel. Why don't you see the connection. Check out Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz if you need a refresher.

You sound unhinged. The point is I disagree with murder - genocide is murder- why should my money support that. And yes, as an American Christian I am totally detached and quite frankly could care less what the talking heads say. Don't tell me to watch (F)ucker Carlson or whatever atrocity Fox is displaying. I don't need to be told how to believe or think - I can do that myself. So THIS American is not at "ALL about Isreal", nor am I all about Palestine. I'd rather divert the conversation to global climate change which will kill way more people in the long run.

How am I unhinged? You clearly do not follow what is happening in the world today. The entire right wing, the Christian Nationalists have always fully embraced Israel because of their belief of the end times. Lol. This isn't conjecture, this is widely understood. This is WHY this whole election was so effed up. His first term divided the right and left. The second term divided the left- using this problem as bait. You need a heads up on:
1. Lobbying
2. Voting blocks within the communities ( both Muslim and Jewish as well as the Christian nationalist movement)
3. Israeli relationship with all other countries, particularly ours
4. Religious/ ethnic ideology with regards to the Middle East.

Maybe this is above your pay grade(?) You reality have some work to do.

Clearly it is above your pay grade to see people as individuals. I said I'm a Christian American and you painted me with a white Christian nationalist brush. Isn't that the same as saying all Jews are like OP's friend. I'm an individual with independent thoughts, so are most of the Jews I know - and many of then don't agree with what is going on. And because you are clearly the one with the mental deficit - let me use simple words - i do follow the news, but it doesn't make me care about everything because there are bigger things (like climate change) that impact me.

For the sake of humanity, we all implore you to take the actual time to learn about what is going on in the world. You cannot be similar to a MAGA voter who now claims they just didn't understand the issues are didn't care. This isn't some insignificant esoteric issue most people might miss. What is happening in the Middle East and the western response, which very much largely differs from the American response (and why) sure as hell really matters. Apparently you have already decided that this is just isn't in your purview right now (?) That means you really do not understand any of this, and yet it is right up there with a lot of precursors to what could be WW3. This issue also heavily impacted this election and we all see how that is going.

Assuming you are over 18, (not sure now, actually) you pay taxes, you vote- you need to understand the massive intersectionality of everyone's current beliefs and movements, how these movements are interrelated to global and American culture, and the likely outcomes of these interdependences. All our lives depend on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Couldn't agree more. America should withdraw our support for the war "over there". No support for Israel (they are crazy), no support for Palestine (too different). No weapons, no money, no aid.

That's what your craziness is bringing to the American people. Like - why should I care? I'm an American Christian - this has NOTHING to do with me. Why do I want my tax dollars going over there? I dont.

American Christians are ALL about Israel. Why don't you see the connection. Check out Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz if you need a refresher.

You sound unhinged. The point is I disagree with murder - genocide is murder- why should my money support that. And yes, as an American Christian I am totally detached and quite frankly could care less what the talking heads say. Don't tell me to watch (F)ucker Carlson or whatever atrocity Fox is displaying. I don't need to be told how to believe or think - I can do that myself. So THIS American is not at "ALL about Isreal", nor am I all about Palestine. I'd rather divert the conversation to global climate change which will kill way more people in the long run.

How am I unhinged? You clearly do not follow what is happening in the world today. The entire right wing, the Christian Nationalists have always fully embraced Israel because of their belief of the end times. Lol. This isn't conjecture, this is widely understood. This is WHY this whole election was so effed up. His first term divided the right and left. The second term divided the left- using this problem as bait. You need a heads up on:
1. Lobbying
2. Voting blocks within the communities ( both Muslim and Jewish as well as the Christian nationalist movement)
3. Israeli relationship with all other countries, particularly ours
4. Religious/ ethnic ideology with regards to the Middle East.

Maybe this is above your pay grade(?) You reality have some work to do.

Clearly it is above your pay grade to see people as individuals. I said I'm a Christian American and you painted me with a white Christian nationalist brush. Isn't that the same as saying all Jews are like OP's friend. I'm an individual with independent thoughts, so are most of the Jews I know - and many of then don't agree with what is going on. And because you are clearly the one with the mental deficit - let me use simple words - i do follow the news, but it doesn't make me care about everything because there are bigger things (like climate change) that impact me.

You sincerely do not understand the Christian Nationalists agenda within our current government and how it pertains to the agenda that is unfolding here and how it impacts this thread. FWIW, this is exactly how Germany managed the Holocaust. Right under everyone's noses.

Somehow you have taken this personally for reasons that are patently unclear. This whole thread is not something you should be commenting on without more of an informational background.

[Anonymous]

I would call her and I’m Muslim. Although I don’t agree with Israel’s actions at all, I think it’s inappropriate to slam Israel in front of a Jewish person. I know it’s hard when Americans gives your faith and culture the villain edit based on what they see on the news.