Did anyone's kid choose quality of life/social factors over prestige?

[Anonymous]

Your child got into a school that they are excited about. They have committed. They want to go. What is your problem? Get excited for your child!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your child got into a school that they are excited about. They have committed. They want to go. What is your problem? Get excited for your child!

THIS! It's about a mom chasing "prestige".
OP, you need to pick up a copy of Jennifer Wallace's book Never Enough.

[Anonymous]

My kid chose a mid ranked LAC over a T30.

He said he felt right at home at the LAC and felt like a number and lost at the other two higher ranked schools he was accepted to.

It is a shame how a few have reacted to where he is going and think he should have chosen the “more prestigious “ schools.

I think he made the right choice and will flourish where he committed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

This.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Go where you are happy. But why assume prestige schools don't offer quality of life?

It's no secret that several "prestige" schools are hyper-competitive, cut-throat places. Wasn't like that in the 90s but sure is now. The anxiety level of many of these kids is off the charts. It's real!

Hyper competitive yet the average student will graduate with a 3.8. Not fully buying it.

Hyper competition is a way of life for some kids, regardless of how plentiful and well-distributed the rewards (including a 3.8 gpa).

If the average is a 3.8, this cohort will battle each other for the 3.95 or 4.0 - it’s just who they are and how they do things. Huge focus on external markers of success, relative to their environment, not necessarily common sense. “Average” is not good enough for them, even if technically, it is.

We all know kids like that in our DCs’ high schools. Put them all together in a single college setting, and it can be miserable for kids who are not like that.

The more chill kids who seek a broader college experience and are fine with their 3.8 are not going to find much social or emotional connection or community with the gunners who don’t have that same perspective.

I know this because my high school DC is the former type (it’s all relative … 3.98 and “only” 11 APs instead of 15). They have absolutely nothing in common socially/personally with that cohort of kids, other than the fact that learning and school comes very easily to them. DC would be MISERABLE at a college where they’re the kids who set the vibe, even if DC knew they could pretty easily graduate with a 3.8 ….

OP here. Thank you for this very thoughtful post. I think it accurately depicts my daughter. She inserted herself into the 3.98+ gunner game through high school but it's not really who she is at her core or how she thrives. She is leaving high school a bit scarred and exhausted. Certainly not energized. I have no doubt that she will do what is expected of her at the next level. If she was to go to MIT she'd contort herself into that world too---and do whatever homework was needed, join her classmates in competing for XYZ research opportunities, clubs, etc. But I really don't think it's where she's happiest. Frankly, I don't think it (this hypercompeitive world in elite academics) is the best fit for most of the kids who find themselves there. It is for some--no doubt. They would be bored and unhappy with anything less. But not all.

OP, your daughter got into UVA from out of state. That is no easy feat. She will be entering an excellent school at least on second base. I think it’s a perfect fit for the way you have described her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I did. Worked out ok, but sometimes still wish I had gone to the higher ranked school. That is a function of the fact that I work in law, where some people focus on schools. That said, I don't think the drop off to UVA is significant. It is still an excellent school.

Similar, but any lack of prestige in my undergrad is made up for by having gone to a highly-ranked law school. I don't know if I would have gotten in to that law school if I had gone to a more prestigious undergrad (maybe my gpa would have been lower, maybe I would not have felt like I had a chance at top law schools, certainly it was less likely that the president of the college would have been one of my recommenders) and I really enjoyed college and made some lifelong friends. OP, your kid has done well and has three great choices, not terribly different in prestige. UVA has a good alum network. You obviously raised a smart and thoughtful person--time to let her choose her own path.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

This.

UVA and Princeton self select according to economic/social status - UVA by sororities. Princeton by eating clubs.

Penn not so much - but it is a depressing atmosphere.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

This.

UVA and Princeton self select according to economic/social status - UVA by sororities. Princeton by eating clubs.

Penn not so much - but it is a depressing atmosphere.

Penn is the social ivy. A lot of fun for the right kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

And this is the problem with dcum. You were responding to me, and I went to Penn and know a current sophomore who rushed. Also know kids currently at UVA who are from OOS. The Penn Greek scene is nothing like the eating clubs at Princeton or Finals clubs at Harvard.

Further, you missed the point entirely. For many kids, including my own, it’s top tier or they drop. Op should have her daughter consider whether she would still be picking uva if rush doesn’t go perfectly. Sometimes 18 year olds make great decisions and sometimes they make bad ones chasing some TikTok ideal of what college life should be like.

Oh, I get it now. You know a lot about Penn but your only personal experience with UVA is cryptically “knowing kids currently at UVA from OOS.”

I, on the other hand, have two actual children who attended UVA, both of whom rushed, and both of them count among their best personal friends from their sororities very happy women who are from out of state.

Again, there is nothing in OP’s description of her daughter‘s personality that suggests in any way that if she goes to UVA and doesn’t get into the top sorority in the school - which, by the way, isn’t even the given that you assume it will be - she will be miserable.

You also say that “for many kids, including my own, it’s only top-tier or they drop.“ Honestly, from the description of OP’s kid, she’s less superficial and insecure than that.

I’m glad your dds had a good experience. When did your dds graduate? Plenty of unhappiness and complaints about rush at UVA in this thread from this January (UVA specific posts mostly in second half of thread). https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1250019.page

Plenty of unhappiness from DCUM parents, you mean, which I take with a huge grain of salt. There’s also not a lot there about how the out-of-state experience is different than the in-state experience, nor is there a lot about “top-tier sorority or bust“.

My daughters graduated relatively recently - not that it matters because nothing suggests that the UVA sorority scene and rushing process has materially changed over the last few years.

You also have been ignoring the repeated posts by OP about her daughter‘s personality, as well as saying nothing about the fact that there’s definite social stratification in the Ivy League - just like everywhere else in the world. You’re just bizarrely fixated on the inaccurate notion that a few sororities at UVA are somehow pulling the social strings for the entire student body - and you’re basing your position on nothing but second hand information and disgruntled gossip on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Go where you are happy. But why assume prestige schools don't offer quality of life?

It's no secret that several "prestige" schools are hyper-competitive, cut-throat places. Wasn't like that in the 90s but sure is now. The anxiety level of many of these kids is off the charts. It's real!

Hyper competitive yet the average student will graduate with a 3.8. Not fully buying it.

Hyper competition is a way of life for some kids, regardless of how plentiful and well-distributed the rewards (including a 3.8 gpa).

If the average is a 3.8, this cohort will battle each other for the 3.95 or 4.0 - it’s just who they are and how they do things. Huge focus on external markers of success, relative to their environment, not necessarily common sense. “Average” is not good enough for them, even if technically, it is.

We all know kids like that in our DCs’ high schools. Put them all together in a single college setting, and it can be miserable for kids who are not like that.

The more chill kids who seek a broader college experience and are fine with their 3.8 are not going to find much social or emotional connection or community with the gunners who don’t have that same perspective.

I know this because my high school DC is the former type (it’s all relative … 3.98 and “only” 11 APs instead of 15). They have absolutely nothing in common socially/personally with that cohort of kids, other than the fact that learning and school comes very easily to them. DC would be MISERABLE at a college where they’re the kids who set the vibe, even if DC knew they could pretty easily graduate with a 3.8 ….

OP here. Thank you for this very thoughtful post. I think it accurately depicts my daughter. She inserted herself into the 3.98+ gunner game through high school but it's not really who she is at her core or how she thrives. She is leaving high school a bit scarred and exhausted. Certainly not energized. I have no doubt that she will do what is expected of her at the next level. If she was to go to MIT she'd contort herself into that world too---and do whatever homework was needed, join her classmates in competing for XYZ research opportunities, clubs, etc. But I really don't think it's where she's happiest. Frankly, I don't think it (this hypercompeitive world in elite academics) is the best fit for most of the kids who find themselves there. It is for some--no doubt. They would be bored and unhappy with anything less. But not all.

My daughter was beaten down and exhausted by this culture at her HS. Most of her friends were in the uber-achiever level but she couldn't quite keep up because of her ADHD. She ended up passing on W&M because she felt it would be more of the same from HS to go to a mid-range LAC that felt more relaxed and friendly and also has a great program for her major. It has been a good choice for her. She'll apply to big name flagships for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Another point that folks seem to be missing: OP’s kid got into Penn/Columbia off the waitlist. That, of course, doesn’t necessarily mean much given how arbitrarily it seems that top schools make admissions decisions, but it’s clearly the case that she’s among the better qualified students at UVA simply because she got in from out of state. So if she’s looking to dial things back a little, it seems to me that UVA is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

And this is the problem with dcum. You were responding to me, and I went to Penn and know a current sophomore who rushed. Also know kids currently at UVA who are from OOS. The Penn Greek scene is nothing like the eating clubs at Princeton or Finals clubs at Harvard.

Further, you missed the point entirely. For many kids, including my own, it’s top tier or they drop. Op should have her daughter consider whether she would still be picking uva if rush doesn’t go perfectly. Sometimes 18 year olds make great decisions and sometimes they make bad ones chasing some TikTok ideal of what college life should be like.

Oh, I get it now. You know a lot about Penn but your only personal experience with UVA is cryptically “knowing kids currently at UVA from OOS.”

I, on the other hand, have two actual children who attended UVA, both of whom rushed, and both of them count among their best personal friends from their sororities very happy women who are from out of state.

Again, there is nothing in OP’s description of her daughter‘s personality that suggests in any way that if she goes to UVA and doesn’t get into the top sorority in the school - which, by the way, isn’t even the given that you assume it will be - she will be miserable.

You also say that “for many kids, including my own, it’s only top-tier or they drop.“ Honestly, from the description of OP’s kid, she’s less superficial and insecure than that.

I’m glad your dds had a good experience. When did your dds graduate? Plenty of unhappiness and complaints about rush at UVA in this thread from this January (UVA specific posts mostly in second half of thread). https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1250019.page

Plenty of unhappiness from DCUM parents, you mean, which I take with a huge grain of salt. There’s also not a lot there about how the out-of-state experience is different than the in-state experience, nor is there a lot about “top-tier sorority or bust“.

My daughters graduated relatively recently - not that it matters because nothing suggests that the UVA sorority scene and rushing process has materially changed over the last few years.

You also have been ignoring the repeated posts by OP about her daughter‘s personality, as well as saying nothing about the fact that there’s definite social stratification in the Ivy League - just like everywhere else in the world. You’re just bizarrely fixated on the inaccurate notion that a few sororities at UVA are somehow pulling the social strings for the entire student body - and you’re basing your position on nothing but second hand information and disgruntled gossip on DCUM.

Whatever, you obviously are just another UVA booster who refuses to acknowledge its faults.

[Anonymous]

My kid got into UVA out of state, but chose the Ivy. They did not value Greek or rah rah experience though. If yours does, then maybe UVA is the better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got into UVA out of state, but chose the Ivy. They did not value Greek or rah rah experience though. If yours does, then maybe UVA is the better fit.

Good GOD. Majority of UVA students are non-Greek.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

This.

UVA and Princeton self select according to economic/social status - UVA by sororities. Princeton by eating clubs.

Penn not so much - but it is a depressing atmosphere.

Penn is the social ivy. A lot of fun for the right kids.

+1 very few transfer out.
OP my D picked college based on fit and social/outside of classes opportunities on campus and in the area. She is Penn 2028, BioE, and goes out with friends every weekend but also studies with friends for a large part of weekends.
UVA did not make her top 5 once she had all her options, but other ivy/t10 were in there at the final decision.
The fact that yours loves UVA and picked it over Northwestern as well as currently says she wants it over Penn and Columbia means those schools are highly unlikely to be a fit for her! It does not matter if they on paper have better recruiting for jobs/grad whatever. She does not like that group of schools or she would not have picked UVA. Let it be her choice. UVA is a wonderful school and a fabulous education!