Did anyone's kid choose quality of life/social factors over prestige?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Northwestern is done. We did the accepted student day and she really did not like it. Didn't see herself there. She revisited UVA and loved it.

The issue that complicates the Penn and Columbia decisions is she hasn't visited either with students in session. We toured them briefly last summer and then toured Penn last week but just walked around Columbia with a friend of a friend (the undergrads are gone for the year and they are on a break from tours until June). It's been very hard to get a feel for the social scenes.

She wants fun mixed with strong academics. Very social kid. Traditional greek life (or so she says, as I mentioned above I'm not sure she knows what this really is).

She might want to post questions on Reddit to get a better sense of student life from students themselves. I personally would not want my kid to give up Penn or Columbia to attend UVA. HOWEVER, if they really wanted UVA, I would come around. But I would insist on due diligence before agreeing. Because sometimes it's just easier to go along with the done deal then revisit and consider other possibilities.

[Anonymous]

My kids gave up Dartmouth for LSU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Northwestern is done. We did the accepted student day and she really did not like it. Didn't see herself there. She revisited UVA and loved it.

The issue that complicates the Penn and Columbia decisions is she hasn't visited either with students in session. We toured them briefly last summer and then toured Penn last week but just walked around Columbia with a friend of a friend (the undergrads are gone for the year and they are on a break from tours until June). It's been very hard to get a feel for the social scenes.

She wants fun mixed with strong academics. Very social kid. Traditional greek life (or so she says, as I mentioned above I'm not sure she knows what this really is).

She might want to post questions on Reddit to get a better sense of student life from students themselves. I personally would not want my kid to give up Penn or Columbia to attend UVA. HOWEVER, if they really wanted UVA, I would come around. But I would insist on due diligence before agreeing. Because sometimes it's just easier to go along with the done deal then revisit and consider other possibilities.

My feeling is that she would for sure meet her people at either Columbia or Penn. The fun to be had in NYC, in particular, is next level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids gave up Dartmouth for LSU.

No, they didn't.

[Anonymous]

When I think fun, I don’t think Penn or Columbia. Since she can’t visit, and doesn’t have a clear favorite, I would suggest sticking with UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids gave up Dartmouth for LSU.

No, they didn't.

Yes they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I think fun, I don’t think Penn or Columbia. Since she can’t visit, and doesn’t have a clear favorite, I would suggest sticking with UVA.

Here's the rub...I don't think of UVA either. No reason other than I don't ever hear UVA discussed on DCUM like others will tout UGA or Alabama.

Most of the posts are about how it's a top school and/or the good clubs are extremely competitive to get into and/or only 50% get into Mcintire (so, the HS bullshit rat race extends another year), etc.

I don't know much about UVA, but based on DCUM, I don't think it's a fun school...which may be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Northwestern is done. We did the accepted student day and she really did not like it. Didn't see herself there. She revisited UVA and loved it.

The issue that complicates the Penn and Columbia decisions is she hasn't visited either with students in session. We toured them briefly last summer and then toured Penn last week but just walked around Columbia with a friend of a friend (the undergrads are gone for the year and they are on a break from tours until June). It's been very hard to get a feel for the social scenes.

She wants fun mixed with strong academics. Very social kid. Traditional greek life (or so she says, as I mentioned above I'm not sure she knows what this really is).

She might want to post questions on Reddit to get a better sense of student life from students themselves. I personally would not want my kid to give up Penn or Columbia to attend UVA. HOWEVER, if they really wanted UVA, I would come around. But I would insist on due diligence before agreeing. Because sometimes it's just easier to go along with the done deal then revisit and consider other possibilities.

Agree with this. My 18 year old also prioritized social aspects and while she enjoys them, it turns out Greek life isn’t entirely what she thought it would be like (more superficial and judgy with a hierarchy among frats/sororities). She’s happy but if she did it over, I think she’d focus more on other factors. Whether warranted or not, your daughter will have better opportunities coming from Columbia or Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine anyone sending a child to Columbia in this current environment, so that wouldn't even be a consideration at my house. Penn, maybe.

But I would take UVA over Penn any day.

I cannot imagine anyone being naive enough to rule out one of the finest educational institutions in the world because reasons.

Have you been to the campus, even? Or are you just watching fox news?

[Anonymous]

Agree with others, have her due diligence on others before turning down for UVA.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just want to reiterate that UVA rush is going to be very competitive for an oos girl, and rush at Penn less so. I was rush director at my sorority decades ago and am shocked at how much rush is different than I experienced. At UVA, very superficial things that she has little control over, like the high school she attended, will matter (strong preference for private schools and feeder affluent public schools) as well as how much she fits a sorority’s type in terms the way she dresses and looks.

Parent of two daughters who graduated from NOVA public high schools who attended UVA and who both rushed. Neither had any problem getting the bids that they wanted.

Assuming that OP’s daughter has half the personality and likeability that OP says she has, she will have no trouble rushing at UVA.

Your dds are probably at sororities with lots of other girls from their high schools. It’s a lot harder for oos girls.

Wrong. Both of my daughters’ sororities were full of OOS “girls” and not a single one of them were from their same high school. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I know oos girls who were very social who were shut out of the top tier sororities at UVA. Perhaps we just are coming at it from different perspectives, or your dd’s were willing to go beyond the “top” sororities (which I think is great, but many girls aren’t).

It would be a shame to chose UVA predominantly for its Greek life and not have it work out. I’ve seen this happen to girls at many southern schools.

Ha ha ha, now I get it. You are suggesting that it only it’s worth rushing if you can get into one of the so-called “top“ sororities, and you’re suggesting that OP‘s daughter can’t do that.

Do you really think that there aren’t social tiers at the Ivies? Are you really saying that OP’s daughter can’t make it socially at UVA being from out of state, but can just swoop into the top of the social scene/tier at Penn and Columbia? What a joke.

Ivies do not have the same "tiers" and social structure as UVA and other southern publics. Theyre completely different with more room for more variety of women socially, yet the ivies do carry an expectation that everyone go above and beyond: classes, clubs, research, outreach.... it is constant focus on the next step, though tbf that is no different than hopkins and stanford. That culture leads to the high success rate of graduates. Almost everyone is super-bright, quirky/nerdy kids are more accepted, academics are especially lauded, yet coasting is frowned upon. UVA is less intense academically, yet more intense socially (albeit not as tiered socially as SMU, Tulane, Auburn...)

Well, I don’t know anything about the Ivy social scene other than that Princeton has some exclusive eating clubs, but I have to figure that there are some pretty rich and connected students attending most of them and that some of them are living some pretty extraordinary and exclusive social lives that don’t typically include the masses. I doubt that as a practical matter UVA is any different.

The bottom line is that UVA is not so stratified socially that you’re doomed to a miserable four years unless you’re a member of a “top” sorority. Were that the case, the vast majority of UVA students would be miserable, which clearly isn’t the case considering that virtually no one transfers and nearly everyone graduates.

Yes, there will always be clubs that won’t have you as a member, but that’s a universal truth.

And this is the problem with dcum. You were responding to me, and I went to Penn and know a current sophomore who rushed. Also know kids currently at UVA who are from OOS. The Penn Greek scene is nothing like the eating clubs at Princeton or Finals clubs at Harvard.

Further, you missed the point entirely. For many kids, including my own, it’s top tier or they drop. Op should have her daughter consider whether she would still be picking uva if rush doesn’t go perfectly. Sometimes 18 year olds make great decisions and sometimes they make bad ones chasing some TikTok ideal of what college life should be like.

Oh, I get it now. You know a lot about Penn but your only personal experience with UVA is cryptically “knowing kids currently at UVA from OOS.”

I, on the other hand, have two actual children who attended UVA, both of whom rushed, and both of them count among their best personal friends from their sororities very happy women who are from out of state.

Again, there is nothing in OP’s description of her daughter‘s personality that suggests in any way that if she goes to UVA and doesn’t get into the top sorority in the school - which, by the way, isn’t even the given that you assume it will be - she will be miserable.

You also say that “for many kids, including my own, it’s only top-tier or they drop.“ Honestly, from the description of OP’s kid, she’s less superficial and insecure than that.

I’m glad your dds had a good experience. When did your dds graduate? Plenty of unhappiness and complaints about rush at UVA in this thread from this January (UVA specific posts mostly in second half of thread). https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1250019.page

Plenty of unhappiness from DCUM parents, you mean, which I take with a huge grain of salt. There’s also not a lot there about how the out-of-state experience is different than the in-state experience, nor is there a lot about “top-tier sorority or bust“.

My daughters graduated relatively recently - not that it matters because nothing suggests that the UVA sorority scene and rushing process has materially changed over the last few years.

You also have been ignoring the repeated posts by OP about her daughter‘s personality, as well as saying nothing about the fact that there’s definite social stratification in the Ivy League - just like everywhere else in the world. You’re just bizarrely fixated on the inaccurate notion that a few sororities at UVA are somehow pulling the social strings for the entire student body - and you’re basing your position on nothing but second hand information and disgruntled gossip on DCUM.

Whatever, you obviously are just another UVA booster who refuses to acknowledge its faults.

Huh?

I’m not saying that UVA doesn’t have faults. And I’m certainly not saying that there are some sororities on campus that are considered more desirable than others. All I’m saying is that in the grand scheme of things none of it matters and it’s not much different than society at large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids gave up Dartmouth for LSU.

Stupid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I think fun, I don’t think Penn or Columbia. Since she can’t visit, and doesn’t have a clear favorite, I would suggest sticking with UVA.

Here's the rub...I don't think of UVA either. No reason other than I don't ever hear UVA discussed on DCUM like others will tout UGA or Alabama.

Most of the posts are about how it's a top school and/or the good clubs are extremely competitive to get into and/or only 50% get into Mcintire (so, the HS bullshit rat race extends another year), etc.

I don't know much about UVA, but based on DCUM, I don't think it's a fun school...which may be wrong.

Wrong. I have a daughter at UVA and is incredibly happy. She is having a great time and has made wonderfully bright and dear friends. She is living her best life. The school offers and has it all.

[Anonymous]

Has she visited UVA? I get appeal if in-state for cost and familiarity, much less so for oos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC is committed to UVA (out of state and chose over Berkeley, Michigan, Northwestern and a few others) and very excited about it but about 10 days ago got off the waitlists for SEAS at both Penn and Columbia. DC was given roughly 2 weeks to decide by each school because of pending financial aid (we receive(d) a minimal amount as we have 2 older kids in college).
DC really wants to stick with UVA because they believe it will be a more enjoyable, well-rounded. classic college experience.
Major is uncertain but probably statistics/data science or economics. DC applied to different majors at each school and I'm not actually sure what.

What would you do as a parent in this situation? All the schools will end up costing about the same (roughly $75K/year give or take).
Did your kid make a similar choice?

It's a bit confusing why she applied to the engineering schools at Penn and Columbia, but I guess is not pursuing engineering at UVA?

Understand, if she does pursue engineering at UVA (or business), the OOS cost jumps to $90k+.