Do you want Texas's school voucher program in DC or DMV?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The OP asks about vouchers in DC or the DMV. Would there be enough vouchers and spaces in private schools for all 50k kids in DCPS? Or the other 47k in DCPCS? Shouldn’t all the families have a choice?

k

Anyone in favor of vouchers want to field this one?

Where there are not enough private schools, who of the 50k students gets a voucher? Who decides?

The vast majority of those parents don’t give a crap about their kids and aren’t raising them properly and wouldn’t bother to fill in the paperwork to get them into a private school, let alone enforce the discipline standards, make sure they do their homework, etc. If everyone was a good parent then we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place.

Not an answer.

The answer is that you won’t need to find anywhere close to 50k places.

Let’s say 15k. Show me where those fifteen thousand private school seats are in DC. Go ahead.

Catholic schools are about $10-15k for k-8, and $20-25k for high school.

No, fifteen thousand private school places, not tuition. And that’s not even counting the over 40k students in DCPCS schools.

There’s no market for it yet, but it’s conceivable that with vouchers, new private schools will serve the students some likely employing teachers and administrators from existing public schools.

Which kids get to attend?

The new schools would of course be non-profit, just like the private ones today. Kids that would go to public, will now have the option to attend these schools if they choose so.

Open admissions?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am in Texas. Most Texans don't even want it. It was passed with overwhelming opposition from voters. I do wonder if this will impact votes next year.

I'm also in TX and can confirm this. No one wants this. Many of us already send our kids to private school because the public ones are horrible. Vouchers just ensure private schools will raise tuition by the voucher amount.

This. Vouchers are economically the same thing as student loans + guaranteed loan forgiveness, with the same effect: spiraling tuition.

Yes, likely increased tuition for the top private school, but there are some limits on income for the TX voucher program, $160k per family.

I don’t think the $10k catholic schools will be 20k because of the voucher, because then you’ll have cheaper schools serve the families that can’t afford to pay above the voucher amount.

Why wouldn’t a $10k school raise tuition to $20k ?

You seem very uninformed about the Texas voucher law. Maybe read up for 5 mins before commenting.

Schools may or may not raise the tuition it depends what students and families they want to attract. If the increase in tuition goes into better paid teachers or smaller classes, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

So they increase tuition so only certain families can choose that school? Shouldn’t all the students have access to any publicly funded school?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have friends who lived in a state (not TX) with vouchers that had a strict income cut-off. They said it made their private more economically diverse than it otherwise would have been.

This is a well-established and supported fact. It’s really ironic how people are so opposed to greater diversity in school.

Anecdote isn't data. Bring data:

https://www.epi.org/publication/vouchers-harm-public-schools/

Students in Louisiana’s Scholarship voucher program experienced declining achievement in both language arts and mathematics during their first two years in the program (Mills and Wolf 2023). Similarly, Waddington and Berends (2018) found that voucher students in the Indiana Choice Scholarship voucher program experienced declining achievement in mathematics one year after attending private school. Under the Ed Choice Program in Ohio, voucher students who previously attended high-performing public schools performed worse than they would have had they remained in public school (Figlio and Karbownick 2016).

Data about vouchers harming public school has nothing to do with vouchers creating economic diversity in private school. They're separate arguments about the same topic.

In addition to the fact that your data isn't relevant to the thread you quoted (which I started), the report you linked is arguing a decline in public school quality when more kids are given the opportunity to attend private school. Nowhere can I find in there that the kids who take the opportunity to attend private school themselves achieve less.

That is literally what the quote above says. It says that untitled studies showed that the children who participated in voucher programs showed decreased educational attainment compared with students with similar profiles who stayed on public schools.

Why is the public interested in economic diversity in private schools? Why should that be a goal of taxpayer funds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in Texas. Most Texans don't even want it. It was passed with overwhelming opposition from voters. I do wonder if this will impact votes next year.

I'm also in TX and can confirm this. No one wants this. Many of us already send our kids to private school because the public ones are horrible. Vouchers just ensure private schools will raise tuition by the voucher amount.

This. Vouchers are economically the same thing as student loans + guaranteed loan forgiveness, with the same effect: spiraling tuition.

Yes, likely increased tuition for the top private school, but there are some limits on income for the TX voucher program, $160k per family.

I don’t think the $10k catholic schools will be 20k because of the voucher, because then you’ll have cheaper schools serve the families that can’t afford to pay above the voucher amount.

Why wouldn’t a $10k school raise tuition to $20k ?

You seem very uninformed about the Texas voucher law. Maybe read up for 5 mins before commenting.

Schools may or may not raise the tuition it depends what students and families they want to attract. If the increase in tuition goes into better paid teachers or smaller classes, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

So segregating by setting the cost?

That’s a big “If”.

[Anonymous]

Are all your posts questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The OP asks about vouchers in DC or the DMV. Would there be enough vouchers and spaces in private schools for all 50k kids in DCPS? Or the other 47k in DCPCS? Shouldn’t all the families have a choice?

k

Anyone in favor of vouchers want to field this one?

Where there are not enough private schools, who of the 50k students gets a voucher? Who decides?

The vast majority of those parents don’t give a crap about their kids and aren’t raising them properly and wouldn’t bother to fill in the paperwork to get them into a private school, let alone enforce the discipline standards, make sure they do their homework, etc. If everyone was a good parent then we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place.

Not an answer.

The answer is that you won’t need to find anywhere close to 50k places.

Let’s say 15k. Show me where those fifteen thousand private school seats are in DC. Go ahead.

Catholic schools are about $10-15k for k-8, and $20-25k for high school.

No, fifteen thousand private school places, not tuition. And that’s not even counting the over 40k students in DCPCS schools.

There’s no market for it yet, but it’s conceivable that with vouchers, new private schools will serve the students some likely employing teachers and administrators from existing public schools.

Which kids get to attend?

The new schools would of course be non-profit, just like the private ones today. Kids that would go to public, will now have the option to attend these schools if they choose so.

Would they have to meet the same requirements as non-charter? Same testing? Staffing ratios? Etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OP asks about vouchers in DC or the DMV. Would there be enough vouchers and spaces in private schools for all 50k kids in DCPS? Or the other 47k in DCPCS? Shouldn’t all the families have a choice?

k

Anyone in favor of vouchers want to field this one?

Where there are not enough private schools, who of the 50k students gets a voucher? Who decides?

The vast majority of those parents don’t give a crap about their kids and aren’t raising them properly and wouldn’t bother to fill in the paperwork to get them into a private school, let alone enforce the discipline standards, make sure they do their homework, etc. If everyone was a good parent then we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place.

Not an answer.

The answer is that you won’t need to find anywhere close to 50k places.

Let’s say 15k. Show me where those fifteen thousand private school seats are in DC. Go ahead.

Catholic schools are about $10-15k for k-8, and $20-25k for high school.

No, fifteen thousand private school places, not tuition. And that’s not even counting the over 40k students in DCPCS schools.

There’s no market for it yet, but it’s conceivable that with vouchers, new private schools will serve the students some likely employing teachers and administrators from existing public schools.

Which kids get to attend?

The new schools would of course be non-profit, just like the private ones today. Kids that would go to public, will now have the option to attend these schools if they choose so.

Open admissions?

No, it wouldn't be open admissions.

Private schools would have the choice, not parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I see no reason we shouldn’t give these programs a try in this area.

Why not?

+1.


These programs are entirely voluntary; no one is forced to use a voucher if they don’t want to.

Shouldn’t parents be offered a choice?

Of course parents should. It’s the absolute worst when parents who send their kids to private school oppose vouchers. The public schools aren’t good enough for their kids, but are good enough for the poors! Gross.

Our kids’ school in Indiana has a high percentage of voucher students and is absolutely phenomenal. The public’s are horrible.

So what problems are the vouchers solving? They are not improving the public schools. You don't care about those kids - but you should. When they grow up, they will be your kids' peers.

It’s giving parents a choice in regards to how they want their children educated and it’s providing more competition in the market. I mean, it is their tax $$ so why not get a say on how it’s spent? So public schools will have to try to step up if they want to compete. Many public schools have a ton of resources but are poorly run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There’s no market for it yet, but it’s conceivable that with vouchers, new private schools will serve the students some likely employing teachers and administrators from existing public schools.

This is not a hypothetical. There is a program in DC. Some schools did open and serve primarily voucher students. Take a look at the research and see how that turned out.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend in Arkansas with an hhi of about 400k and she’s loving the voucher program because she gets private school for free for her kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no reason we shouldn’t give these programs a try in this area.

Why not?

+1.


These programs are entirely voluntary; no one is forced to use a voucher if they don’t want to.

Shouldn’t parents be offered a choice?

Of course parents should. It’s the absolute worst when parents who send their kids to private school oppose vouchers. The public schools aren’t good enough for their kids, but are good enough for the poors! Gross.

Our kids’ school in Indiana has a high percentage of voucher students and is absolutely phenomenal. The public’s are horrible.

So what problems are the vouchers solving? They are not improving the public schools. You don't care about those kids - but you should. When they grow up, they will be your kids' peers.

It’s giving parents a choice in regards to how they want their children educated and it’s providing more competition in the market. I mean, it is their tax $$ so why not get a say on how it’s spent? So public schools will have to try to step up if they want to compete. Many public schools have a ton of resources but are poorly run.

All the parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OP asks about vouchers in DC or the DMV. Would there be enough vouchers and spaces in private schools for all 50k kids in DCPS? Or the other 47k in DCPCS? Shouldn’t all the families have a choice?

k

Anyone in favor of vouchers want to field this one?

Where there are not enough private schools, who of the 50k students gets a voucher? Who decides?

The vast majority of those parents don’t give a crap about their kids and aren’t raising them properly and wouldn’t bother to fill in the paperwork to get them into a private school, let alone enforce the discipline standards, make sure they do their homework, etc. If everyone was a good parent then we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place.

Not an answer.

The answer is that you won’t need to find anywhere close to 50k places.

Let’s say 15k. Show me where those fifteen thousand private school seats are in DC. Go ahead.

Catholic schools are about $10-15k for k-8, and $20-25k for high school.

No, fifteen thousand private school places, not tuition. And that’s not even counting the over 40k students in DCPCS schools.

There’s no market for it yet, but it’s conceivable that with vouchers, new private schools will serve the students some likely employing teachers and administrators from existing public schools.

Which kids get to attend?

The new schools would of course be non-profit, just like the private ones today. Kids that would go to public, will now have the option to attend these schools if they choose so.

Open admissions?

No, it wouldn't be open admissions.

Private schools would have the choice, not parents.

The PP said the parents have the choice. But it’s really private school admins? Anyone doing any oversight on how money is spent and how admissions decisions are made? Any requirements to admit and support students with special needs? ELL students? Recent immigrants? Poor kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no reason we shouldn’t give these programs a try in this area.

Why not?

+1.


These programs are entirely voluntary; no one is forced to use a voucher if they don’t want to.

Shouldn’t parents be offered a choice?

Of course parents should. It’s the absolute worst when parents who send their kids to private school oppose vouchers. The public schools aren’t good enough for their kids, but are good enough for the poors! Gross.

Our kids’ school in Indiana has a high percentage of voucher students and is absolutely phenomenal. The public’s are horrible.

So what problems are the vouchers solving? They are not improving the public schools. You don't care about those kids - but you should. When they grow up, they will be your kids' peers.

It’s giving parents a choice in regards to how they want their children educated and it’s providing more competition in the market. I mean, it is their tax $$ so why not get a say on how it’s spent? So public schools will have to try to step up if they want to compete. Many public schools have a ton of resources but are poorly run.

There is no market. Well not a real one anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no reason we shouldn’t give these programs a try in this area.

Why not?

+1.


These programs are entirely voluntary; no one is forced to use a voucher if they don’t want to.

Shouldn’t parents be offered a choice?

Of course parents should. It’s the absolute worst when parents who send their kids to private school oppose vouchers. The public schools aren’t good enough for their kids, but are good enough for the poors! Gross.

Our kids’ school in Indiana has a high percentage of voucher students and is absolutely phenomenal. The public’s are horrible.

So what problems are the vouchers solving? They are not improving the public schools. You don't care about those kids - but you should. When they grow up, they will be your kids' peers.

It’s giving parents a choice in regards to how they want their children educated and it’s providing more competition in the market. I mean, it is their tax $$ so why not get a say on how it’s spent? So public schools will have to try to step up if they want to compete. Many public schools have a ton of resources but are poorly run.

We don’t do that for fire departments, police, libraries, parks…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t want to access vouchers, you do not have to.

What’s wrong with giving parents a choice?

It's only a choice on the outside. The reality is most people still cannot cover the tuition gap, because it will raise tuition. And those kids still won't get a seat in private school. These prefer those already in the community (siblings, legacies) or very outstanding new students. Most kids are average and won't benefit at all.