Obesity is only a "problem" because...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it makes you harder to starve, and may reduce your ability to perform physical labor for the state.

Change my mind.

Obesity is only a problem because people seek medical care for problems associated with it. If you just enjoyed yourself and let yourself die young, it would be a good time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

DP: I'm not an anti vaxxer. But if you thought eating "low fat cookies" was a good thing yes you are ridiculous. All the packaged crap is bad for you. Even cookies you make yourself with tons of sugar is bad for you. Your body does NOT need that sugar. Better to get used to Berries or apples for dessert and maybe once a week have a "real dessert". But if you eat it nightly, you are not taking care of your body

You can't deny that the government was proclaiming low fat as a healthy diet. Regardless of what it was, foods were suddenly advertised as low fat where all the fat had been replaced with sugar. And it was usually more calories to make it taste as good as the full fat product.

Dude, this dumb argument is so ancient. That was 30 years ago.

People don’t live under rocks and aren’t ill informed. They are just addicted to too much yum yums.

Does that explain why the fad diets are so popular and we get a new one every couple of months?

Are you dumb enough to believe every new dad diet you get every couple months? Because that’s what you are telling us when you post this stuff.

It's difficult to find the goal posts here. First, you claim people aren't ill-informed. Now, you claim I believe in fad diets. People are NOT well informed about food choices. That's pretty obvious. Your inability to accept any evidence contrary to your belief is not surprising though. Also, your personal attacks add tremendous weight to your arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As always, we have learned the same information in this thread. The continued low-fat craze from 30 years ago angle is a new one. As always, it’s the cheesecakes fault. Good to know.

The government does a terrible job with messaging. Do you like that message better? Once "information" is out there, it's hard to correct.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

I have a high degree of confidence neither of those organizations would suggest eating low fat Oreos.

Not directly. But they didn't have nuance to their messaging either.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/lowfat.html

I’m old enough to remember the low fat craze. No one thought eating Snackwells was actually neutral or good. Just less bad.

And logically, if they are less bad, you could eat more of them. Terrible logic, but here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it makes you harder to starve, and may reduce your ability to perform physical labor for the state.

Change my mind.

Obesity means likely diabetes

Obesity means like fatty liver disease

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

I have a high degree of confidence neither of those organizations would suggest eating low fat Oreos.

Not directly. But they didn't have nuance to their messaging either.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/lowfat.html

I’m old enough to remember the low fat craze. No one thought eating Snackwells was actually neutral or good. Just less bad.

And logically, if they are less bad, you could eat more of them. Terrible logic, but here we are.

You need to turn yourself into knots to make it a good chocie

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

DP: I'm not an anti vaxxer. But if you thought eating "low fat cookies" was a good thing yes you are ridiculous. All the packaged crap is bad for you. Even cookies you make yourself with tons of sugar is bad for you. Your body does NOT need that sugar. Better to get used to Berries or apples for dessert and maybe once a week have a "real dessert". But if you eat it nightly, you are not taking care of your body

You can't deny that the government was proclaiming low fat as a healthy diet. Regardless of what it was, foods were suddenly advertised as low fat where all the fat had been replaced with sugar. And it was usually more calories to make it taste as good as the full fat product.

Dude, this dumb argument is so ancient. That was 30 years ago.

People don’t live under rocks and aren’t ill informed. They are just addicted to too much yum yums.

Does that explain why the fad diets are so popular and we get a new one every couple of months?

Are you dumb enough to believe every new dad diet you get every couple months? Because that’s what you are telling us when you post this stuff.

It's difficult to find the goal posts here. First, you claim people aren't ill-informed. Now, you claim I believe in fad diets. People are NOT well informed about food choices. That's pretty obvious. Your inability to accept any evidence contrary to your belief is not surprising though. Also, your personal attacks add tremendous weight to your arguments.

b

Lots of different people arguing here, including a self-reporting fat person who said that of course fat people understand why they are fat.

As for “personal attacks,” your arguments reduce you and fat people to children with no agency or knowledge. Those are the arguments you have chosen to make. Personally, I think people are much smarter than you give them credit for.

[Anonymous]

I have a high degree of confidence the obese of McLean and Bethesda are perfectly well informed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

I feel that way about smoking and vaping. And unlike consumption of food, it’s not necessary. But if we cared about health care costs we’d ban all this and extreme processed foods. It’s easier to blame individuals than take meaningful action so there is no need for “discipline” (which is bullshit as we are not all equal when it comes to addiction)

And salt, sugar, and meat. We need to put together a master list of things which the government should ban to improve the health of all Americans! We could have a utopia

Meat and salt can be very healthy. Lots of people have reversed multiple health conditions on an animal based diet.

The current food pyramid is what is unhealthy and it tracks with an explosion in obesity and insulin becoming a huge money maker.

+1

The food pyramid is wrong. We don't need grains, it lead to this obesity epidemic. Cut them out and see what it does to your body. You won't know until you give it a try

First, no, the food pyramid recommendations (which no one has ever followed anyway) did not lead to the obesity epidemic. Second, the word you are looking for in this context is “led” - I assume you also don’t understand the difference between “loose” and “lose”.

Exactly - the idea that the 40% of Americans that are obese are that way because they meticulously followed some food pyramid guidelines is so intellectually dishonest its impossible to know where to start.

The sad part is the rush to blame externalities in all this ends up neutering the ability of people from taking control of their own health. Any time you speak any form of actual truth its too mean and its shaming. The opposite of the empowerment.

Imagine being arrogant enough to think you, and only you, know "the actual truth" about the complexities of a stranger's physical health. What an AH.

Imagine being so dishonest that you decide obesity on a population level is all about elaborate exceptions and narrow medical conditions. Its impossible to even have this discussion because people always wade in here with some elaborate tale that is not at all a reflection of what is actually happening on a population level.

So, according to you, a DCUM shitposter/self-proclaimed expert, the whole problem is "fat people eat too much"?

You're a simple-minded fool, and a judgmental ass.

Unfortunately for you, the scientific consensus is exactly that. The obesity epidemic on a population level is people wildly over-consuming according to their energy needs and storing that energy as fat. Go ahead and read the literature if you have the honesty to do so. There are various reasons why that is happening, and unfortunately for you, the vast majority are not reasons where human agency and free will are entirely absent from the equation.

Or write some elaborate rant about cow feces on fruits and vegetables and how it’s impossible to be a functioning adult. A functioning adult that doesn’t eat piles of garbage, doesn’t have the need to count anything because they are eating real food, and occasionally does some exercise to emulate what the human body was designed for in the first place.

+1

If you do that, you almost certainly will loose weight. But keep in mind, if you are 50lbs overweight, it will take time. You might not be able to get 15K steps in initially, so start with 5-8K and cutting crap out of your diet. And know that yes, you might "feel hungry" because you have been overeating and feeding your body crap for years. But if you power thru the first 2 weeks, your cravings will diminish, and you will start to feel better. You didnt' put on those 50lbs in 1-2 months, so you will take longer than that to remove them and change your lifestyle. Only you can decide if you want to do this.

Then why the hell are so many people on this thread acting like it's their business? And the only actual argument they have to justify it is "fat people make my insurance costs go up" but these same people aren't protesting, you know, the insurance companies themselves, the deny/delay/depose/defend of it all, etc.

Hating fat people is acceptable, and some people are hateful. You either hate strangers or you don't, and it's about you either way.

Obese people cost the US healthcare system nearly $200 billion a year.

Based on data from 2021-2023, about 40% of US adults are obese, more than any country in Europe, Central America or South America. For 1999-2000, the US obesity rate was 30%.

If this doesn't scream systemic problem to you, nobody can help you.

It's a systemic problem because nobody is willing to tell people how to change their diets! And the patients are not willing to get nutritional counseling and follow it.
It's not that difficult. Eat whole Foods, make 60-75% of your plate veggies and the rest good protein source. And no, corn is NOT a veggie. Cut out grains and get your carbs from veggies and fruits. But remember to limit your overall carbs to "diabetic diet levels"---so nope, you cannot eat 3 bags of sweet potato chips and unlimited fruit all day---you need to watch your carb count.

No need for chips, cookies, anything with added sugars. If you are hungry, have a glass of water, and if in 10 mins you are still hungry then snack on some carrots/celery/radishes/veggies and dip them in guac.

If you do that, 99% of people will loose weight and be healthier. Continue it as a lifestyle.

It's only systemic because people think "breakfast should be cereal or toast" and lunch is a sandwich---but no fruit or veggies and basically it's just bread/carbs. Snacks are all mostly junk food and make you crave more snacks.
Then dinner is pizza or fast food.

I don't know anyone overweight/obese who eats mostly whole foods and attempts to limit carbs (ie Diabetic diet rules).

Then if you add in exercise---walking, everyone can do that. It will help even more

Are they more "willing" in Europe? Sounds like we need ourselves a good old nanny state.

No, Europe has simply not adopted the "American way of eating crap". Go to europe. Most do not eat out all the time, and if they do eat out, it's quality food, just like they would make at home. They eat much healthier than we do. They also walk a lot more. Cars are expensive, gas is extremely expensive. So if they live in a city, they take public transportation/walk---something we only can do in our largest cities---in Europe smaller cities have good public transportation. Even tiny villages have a train station.

It's quite simple, if you never start eating processed crap on a daily basis, you don't develop an addiction to it and you continue to be healthy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

DP: I'm not an anti vaxxer. But if you thought eating "low fat cookies" was a good thing yes you are ridiculous. All the packaged crap is bad for you. Even cookies you make yourself with tons of sugar is bad for you. Your body does NOT need that sugar. Better to get used to Berries or apples for dessert and maybe once a week have a "real dessert". But if you eat it nightly, you are not taking care of your body

You can't deny that the government was proclaiming low fat as a healthy diet. Regardless of what it was, foods were suddenly advertised as low fat where all the fat had been replaced with sugar. And it was usually more calories to make it taste as good as the full fat product.

yes, the govt was. But smart people realized the false notions of this. Just like I never jumped on the "fake sugar" bandwagon, and as I suspected, most of them would be listed as "cancer causing/dangerous" about 10-15 years after institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

Yeah that’s what I was going to say. Obesity is a huge factor of most chronic health issues. WE as a society pay for that when their care drives up healthcare costs for all.

This is your complaint about healthcare costs? You think the outrageous premiums and ridiculous co-pays and inflated charges are... because fat people use healthcare? What a simple-minded fool.

Nowhere did I say this was the only issue with healthcare. But I did say it is a major issue with OBESITY and I am not wrong about that. Obese people all want to believe they’re just some victim of unique circumstances but mostly they’re not - and we all end up paying for their weight related health issues. That’s a problem.

Where did people get the idea that fat people don’t know why they’re fat and like to play the victim? I’ve never met a fat person who does this. I’m fat, and I know full well why I’m fat, and it’s none of your business. I also have normal blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, etc. so spare me the song and dance that all fat people are a drain on the medical system. It’s categorically not true and also not how it works. The truth is that you don’t like fat people because you find them unattractive. If you’re going to scream at fat people to “be honest” then you need to start doing the same.

People trying to say we were deceived by the government and food industry a few pages earlier.

There was a period when the government said fat was bad for you, and low-fat (high sugar) magically appeared. It was also cheaper because HFCS is subsidized indirectly by the government.

It's easy to overeat sugary foods.

Are you that gullible? That sounds like people who thought eating Snackwells were virtuous.

Are you telling me to question the advice of the CDC and the FDA and do my own research? That sounds a bit like an antivaxxer.

DP: I'm not an anti vaxxer. But if you thought eating "low fat cookies" was a good thing yes you are ridiculous. All the packaged crap is bad for you. Even cookies you make yourself with tons of sugar is bad for you. Your body does NOT need that sugar. Better to get used to Berries or apples for dessert and maybe once a week have a "real dessert". But if you eat it nightly, you are not taking care of your body

You can't deny that the government was proclaiming low fat as a healthy diet. Regardless of what it was, foods were suddenly advertised as low fat where all the fat had been replaced with sugar. And it was usually more calories to make it taste as good as the full fat product.

Dude, this dumb argument is so ancient. That was 30 years ago.

People don’t live under rocks and aren’t ill informed. They are just addicted to too much yum yums.

Is it because of all the immigrants or because of the Black people? I'm trying to understand why other countries have much, much lower obesity rates.

Because on average, most other countries do NOT eat the crap most Americans routinely eat. Mac n cheese isn't dinner each night, it might be a treat once or twice a month, and made fresh at home. And the boxes of Kraft MNC in Europe do not contain all the crap ours do. Kraft has figured out how not to include it, they just won't do it in the USA because it would cost $0.50 more per box, but they have already figured out how to manufacture it. But they eat more fruits and veggies, their bread supply is not contaminated with chemicals, most of their produce is closer to organic than ours is. They don't have to specify "organic" it just is grown that way.


And yes, people in Europe walk much more than we do. Have you seen the price of gas there? They take public transportation, which means more walking to get to/from. And they don't overeat. You don't need a take home box at most restaurants in Europe, the portions are more in line with what someone actually should be eating in a meal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

And obese people fund on a daily basis, billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain that old people, smokers, children and adults with various disabilities, premies etc. are on the system. Especially so as they are less likely to live long enough to actually get to enjoy the benefits of their hard works.

But who am I to quibble it's easier to openly discriminate against old people than it is children and premies with lifelong disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

And obese people fund on a daily basis, billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain that old people, smokers, children and adults with various disabilities, premies etc. are on the system. Especially so as they are less likely to live long enough to actually get to enjoy the benefits of their hard works.

But who am I to quibble it's easier to openly discriminate against old people than it is children and premies with lifelong disabilities.

Of course I meant discriminate against "obese people" old people are largely just an invisible drain on society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

And obese people fund on a daily basis, billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain that old people, smokers, children and adults with various disabilities, premies etc. are on the system. Especially so as they are less likely to live long enough to actually get to enjoy the benefits of their hard works.

But who am I to quibble it's easier to openly discriminate against old people than it is children and premies with lifelong disabilities.

The difference is "obese people" most likely can make a choice to not be obese. Just like a smoker can make the choice to not smoke. But old people and kids/people with many disabilities cannot do anything to change that. See the difference?

Go purchase life insurance---if you are older, have an illness, are overweight, etc, they charge you more or simply won't insure you. It's not discrimination, it's just how it works.
So while everyone should have access to healthcare, it's not unfair to expect some to pay more. I mean, if I purchase ACA plan now, at 50 I pay more than at 40, and it exponentially goes up until I turn 65 and can switch to medicare. They do charge me more because of my aging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a problem because inevitably non obese shell out billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain obese people are on our society.

And obese people fund on a daily basis, billions of dollars to compensate for the incredible drain that old people, smokers, children and adults with various disabilities, premies etc. are on the system. Especially so as they are less likely to live long enough to actually get to enjoy the benefits of their hard works.

But who am I to quibble it's easier to openly discriminate against old people than it is children and premies with lifelong disabilities.

The difference is "obese people" most likely can make a choice to not be obese. Just like a smoker can make the choice to not smoke. But old people and kids/people with many disabilities cannot do anything to change that. See the difference?

Go purchase life insurance---if you are older, have an illness, are overweight, etc, they charge you more or simply won't insure you. It's not discrimination, it's just how it works.
So while everyone should have access to healthcare, it's not unfair to expect some to pay more. I mean, if I purchase ACA plan now, at 50 I pay more than at 40, and it exponentially goes up until I turn 65 and can switch to medicare. They do charge me more because of my aging.

If you are quibbling about dollars what does it matter. Business is business. People can choose to get genetic testing before they have children, they can choose to not drink before and after, they can take vitamins and they can choose to not have children at advanced maternal ages, they can choose to abort if their fetuses have genetic abnormalities, they can choose to not have children all together. Old people can choose to forego costly treatments that don't do much to extend quality or quantity of life. What should the cutoff be... let's see how about 65, most people have lived out their genetic usefulness at that point.

People make all kinds of choices that society has to bear the burden for. It seems to me smokers and obese people probably take much less out of the system than they put in. Think of the savings in Social Security and Medicare alone.

Most things that lead to ill health are choices made by people.. many starting with conception, either choosing to be genetically inferior and having kids to choices made while pregnant... but again it's easy to pick on obese people. Which includes people, and many middle aged men and women who really aren't that overweight to begin with.

I'm not even getting into the people who choose to maintain a healthy or even below healthy weight throughout adulthood and then end of falling and breaking hips because they are frail in old age... we should just cover them in dirt and leave them where they lay every time they fall down and break a hip... costly surgery and rehab to extend life for what the next time they fall and break another hip.