Harvard Rejects Trump Admin’s Demands, Going to Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard acted like it's above the law and discriminated Asians all they want.
Now it's acting like it's entiled to my tax money.

This.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

Sounds like you skipped the letter with the Trump admin’s demands. In the second link.

I literally quoted from the article.

No one is forcing Harvard to do anything.

Harvard is throwing a hissy fit because it wants to do certain things AND get taxpayer funds.

Doesn’t work like that.

There are many concerns with the demands, but here are three:

-Harvard is being told they have to end recognition of student orgs merely accused of things, not proven to have done those things. Many of the allegations have been disputed.

-Affirmative action and DEI aren’t the same. DEI can still play a role in ensuring no discrimination, but they are being told even that is not allowed.

- Most seriously, Harvard employees and students would be immediately evaluated for “viewpoint diversity. ” If not satisfying the gov, future hires and admits would need to reach whatever level of parity the gov sees fit. Viewpoint diversity is a subjective assessment, and easily corrupted to disallow academic criticism of public policy. That would remove yet another “check,” as the politicians studied by academics would now control the hiring of those asking the questions, not unlike what just happened with the WH press corps.

Can the gov withhold Harvard funding if their demands aren’t met? Possibly, but that doesn’t make it right, as the courts exist to determine compliance with the law, not to tell us what laws we should have. Much of this hasn’t been attempted before in this country, so at least some of the relevant laws are vague. If they do pull it off, why would the top researchers and students in the world stay when they are in high demand by countries not policing thought?

Ridiculous DEI policies resulted in Harvard hiring a fake Indian as a law professor & a serial plagiarist as president. Hard to see why DEI is something they think is worth fighting for.

I think you missed the point. They can drop AA without dropping the entirety of DEI. The latter is a superset.

What’s funny though is the gov is demanding an even more subjective form of DEI run by themselves and calling it “viewpoint diversity.”

That is hands down the funniest part of this. Replacing "Diversity Equity Inclusion" with "Viewpoint Diversity" and all enforced by constant surveillance of everything said by anyone affiliated with the school.

Oh no... Now instead of claims that schools have been infected with DEI we are going to hear that they have been infected with VD. Sheesh

Sounds like an STI that you might get from your couch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Sure. Except it won’t be doing research for US federal programs.

Stopping this research primarily hurts the US, not Harvard.

Harvard is not the only university in the US.

This isn’t like shopping around for someone to fix your car. Researchers aren’t interchangeable and there will be significant loss of institutional knowledge.

This petty tantrum will primarily hurt the US.

Nice job, idiots. You don’t even comprehend the harm that you are inflicting on yourself.

MIT and Caltech is much more useful and necessary than anything Harvard does. Elite public universities can do them better at less costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No you are looking at different things. Viewpoint diversity is about making sure all viewpoints are welcomed. DEI has morphed into putting one group over another based on past wrong etc.

False

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a graduate of one of the most elite colleges, Harvard's complaints are hypocritical. They are very happy to comply with progressive mandates from the Federal government (the Fed has long used the threat of the purse to get universities to comply with Federal mandates, such as Title IX or affirmative action or sex/gender politics). But when the Federal government uses the threat of the purse in a different way, suddenly it's a violation of free speech? While the other mandates weren't? Wow!

Cry me a river. Harvard isn't that special. Like all progressive institutions, it is deeply hypocritical. It, along with other elite colleges, has lost a great deal of credibility and respect in the last 10-15 years. A Harvard diploma does not carry the weight it did in 2005. Harvard can do what it wants but if it loses Federal funding, few Americans outside the NYT readership will care, and that is what Harvard doesn't understand.

This is one of the dumber things I've read.

It’s spot on. Can accurate also be dumb? Not sure.

Can a school that provides remedial math and writing classes to its admits also be “prestigious?” Am very doubtful.

Remedial math on offer at my local community College and at Harvard. Glad to know I can save a ton of money by sending my kids there instead. Double plus, now they can't avoid mowing the lawn because they're too busy with their homework. Thanks for the tip!

🤡

it's so weird how nobody can read a simple story about this remedial math stuff. it's not that deep people. Harvard is saying kids are coming to us behind where they were 4 years ago and we're bumping freshman year math to 5 days a week to make up for it. Believe me, the community colleges are seeing the same thing - those kids are behind were they were 4 years ago too -- and that's a lot lower level. They should also make their freshman year curriculum more robust to get the kids up to standard - whether that be Harvard standard or CC standard.

+1
This. The K-12 system is producing lower achievement and colleges (and employers) are having to make up the difference. Students can't write and community colleges and 4-year universities are also requiring basic ENG composition classes to help ensure students are prepared for college level work. That should not be the colleges' responsibility - that's the point of K-12 education. I guess colleges could take the alternative path of rejecting a good portion of their students if they don't pass basic competency tests. But if the K-12 system doesn't start to do better, that doesn't solve the problem and doesn't afford a lot of students opportunities they at least still have by being able to "catch up" their first year in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No you are looking at different things. Viewpoint diversity is about making sure all viewpoints are welcomed. DEI has morphed into putting one group over another based on past wrong etc.

I understand the sales pitch, but the mechanism is spelled out in the letter. Each paragraph starts off with what sound like good intentions, but then when you read how it will be implemented the risks and dangers become clear. The gov should not be involved in picking the faculty or students of a private school just because the gov is a large customer of a university (paying for and receiving the benefits of research).

Nor should the gov be dictating which student orgs get kicked off campus just based on allegations. There’s a need for due process.

DEI was not about putting one group over another. It was about giving (previously wronged) groups help to reach the level enjoyed by others. I don’t agree with all the tools it used to do that, like affirmative action, but having a place to go when there is a complaint or a need for training isn’t crazy. It could be rolled into HR at some places since it’s the same kind of compliance function, but calling a student facing org HR is confusing. (Ultimately there will be a rebrand just so Trump can say he won.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

With their own money please

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s extortion. No previous White House has ever tried to use the power of the state to steer the nation’s preeminent institutions of higher learning in an ideological direction favored by the president.

“U.S. research universities, and the federal funding that supports them, are one major reason Americans have collected more Nobel Prizes than citizens of any other country. They also help make the United States the world’s innovation engine and the top destination for foreign students. No other country is as adept at converting raw human talent and ideas into cutting-edge products. Research universities anchor innovation clusters such as Silicon Valley, which in turn fuel the country’s economic growth.”

Nearly a month ago, for example, Columbia University agreed to most of the White House’s demands in the hopes that Trump and his team would restore $400 million in federal funding. Not only were those hopes soon dashed — Columbia didn’t get its money back — but the administration soon after proposed installing oversight personnel to help run the school in ways that would make the president happy.

In effect, the White House responded to Columbia’s appeasement by trying in part to take over Columbia.

+100

People cheering for this are puppets. It’s the beginning of a fascist regime. They want to control all of the elite universities so there are no alternative ideas or push back. Much like firing all the IGs.

Obama sent letters threatening universities to install DEI or lose funding. Full compliance.

It is the government's responsibility to uphold civil rights and non-discrimination laws. Call it "control" if you want - but it's controlling fairness.
The Trump administration's demands work against civil rights and are controlling ideology they agree with and eliminating opposing views. That is not appropriate government "control."
It isn't federal regulations or government policies that are to blame if students with more conservative views don't feel comfortable expressing those views on their campus, or similarly employees in a company. That's the result of the school and the company's chosen practices.
Is Trump going after Liberty University for being too conservative or too Christian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Sure. Except it won’t be doing research for US federal programs.

Stopping this research primarily hurts the US, not Harvard.

Harvard is not the only university in the US.

This isn’t like shopping around for someone to fix your car. Researchers aren’t interchangeable and there will be significant loss of institutional knowledge.

This petty tantrum will primarily hurt the US.

Nice job, idiots. You don’t even comprehend the harm that you are inflicting on yourself.

MIT and Caltech is much more useful and necessary than anything Harvard does. Elite public universities can do them better at less costs.

They just haven't gotten to MIT and CalTech, yet. The dominos will fall if we continue to allow the administration to keep on going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

With their own money please

That only flies if you don’t want any treatments for diseases and promise not to spread any to the rest of us.

Oh, and also you don’t get to use the Internet, fly on an airplane, travel by car, have air conditioning, own a TV, etc. Essentially all the technology that makes what you know as life actually livable wouldn’t be possible without academic institutions, here and abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

With their own money please

Isn't that what they're doing by saying no to his demands?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

As long as they touch my tax money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

With their own money please

That only flies if you don’t want any treatments for diseases and promise not to spread any to the rest of us.

Oh, and also you don’t get to use the Internet, fly on an airplane, travel by car, have air conditioning, own a TV, etc. Essentially all the technology that makes what you know as life actually livable wouldn’t be possible without academic institutions, here and abroad.

Harvard can be gone today, and the country and the world will be perfectly fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Isn't that precisely what Harvard is saying?

With their own money please

OK. Now, how do I demand HHS does not use my taxpayer money on biased psuedo-science studies in order to "prove" vaccines cause autism?