Harvard Rejects Trump Admin’s Demands, Going to Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s extortion. No previous White House has ever tried to use the power of the state to steer the nation’s preeminent institutions of higher learning in an ideological direction favored by the president.

“U.S. research universities, and the federal funding that supports them, are one major reason Americans have collected more Nobel Prizes than citizens of any other country. They also help make the United States the world’s innovation engine and the top destination for foreign students. No other country is as adept at converting raw human talent and ideas into cutting-edge products. Research universities anchor innovation clusters such as Silicon Valley, which in turn fuel the country’s economic growth.”

Nearly a month ago, for example, Columbia University agreed to most of the White House’s demands in the hopes that Trump and his team would restore $400 million in federal funding. Not only were those hopes soon dashed — Columbia didn’t get its money back — but the administration soon after proposed installing oversight personnel to help run the school in ways that would make the president happy.

In effect, the White House responded to Columbia’s appeasement by trying in part to take over Columbia.

+100

People cheering for this are puppets. It’s the beginning of a fascist regime. They want to control all of the elite universities so there are no alternative ideas or push back. Much like firing all the IGs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Sure. Except it won’t be doing research for US federal programs.

Stopping this research primarily hurts the US, not Harvard.

Harvard is not the only university in the US.

Hey dipsh@t- funding being frozen and cut at NIH, CDC, EPA, etc. affects/hurts public universities too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extortion. No previous White House has ever tried to use the power of the state to steer the nation’s preeminent institutions of higher learning in an ideological direction favored by the president.

“U.S. research universities, and the federal funding that supports them, are one major reason Americans have collected more Nobel Prizes than citizens of any other country. They also help make the United States the world’s innovation engine and the top destination for foreign students. No other country is as adept at converting raw human talent and ideas into cutting-edge products. Research universities anchor innovation clusters such as Silicon Valley, which in turn fuel the country’s economic growth.”

Nearly a month ago, for example, Columbia University agreed to most of the White House’s demands in the hopes that Trump and his team would restore $400 million in federal funding. Not only were those hopes soon dashed — Columbia didn’t get its money back — but the administration soon after proposed installing oversight personnel to help run the school in ways that would make the president happy.

In effect, the White House responded to Columbia’s appeasement by trying in part to take over Columbia.

+100

People cheering for this are puppets. It’s the beginning of a fascist regime. They want to control all of the elite universities so there are no alternative ideas or push back. Much like firing all the IGs.

Obama sent letters threatening universities to install DEI or lose funding. Full compliance.

[Anonymous]

Harvard is the one has been acted like fascist and cartel.

We need major reformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Harvard is awarded such research dollars because they provide higher ROI than many other R1 institutions. Nobody at USAF gives a flying F about the name brand when they need advanced materials research. They gave it to Harvard (or MIT or wherever) because they know the quality of the product.

Move the money elsewhere and cross your fingers that our top students and researchers will follow it.

Just keep in mind that public funding priorities shift every 2 years or so. Places like Harvard survive for 100+ years because they are not completely beholden to public funding. Many other schools are.

The fine researchers will go to where the money is already.
Just a little shuffling, no big deal.

This is where you are really wrong. The researchers will go where their intellectual peers are already. Eating sandwiches and talking about neutrinos together at lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

Sounds like you skipped the letter with the Trump admin’s demands. In the second link.

I literally quoted from the article.

No one is forcing Harvard to do anything.

Harvard is throwing a hissy fit because it wants to do certain things AND get taxpayer funds.

Doesn’t work like that.

There are many concerns with the demands, but here are three:

-Harvard is being told they have to end recognition of student orgs merely accused of things, not proven to have done those things. Many of the allegations have been disputed.

-Affirmative action and DEI aren’t the same. DEI can still play a role in ensuring no discrimination, but they are being told even that is not allowed.

- Most seriously, Harvard employees and students would be immediately evaluated for “viewpoint diversity. ” If not satisfying the gov, future hires and admits would need to reach whatever level of parity the gov sees fit. Viewpoint diversity is a subjective assessment, and easily corrupted to disallow academic criticism of public policy. That would remove yet another “check,” as the politicians studied by academics would now control the hiring of those asking the questions, not unlike what just happened with the WH press corps.

Can the gov withhold Harvard funding if their demands aren’t met? Possibly, but that doesn’t make it right, as the courts exist to determine compliance with the law, not to tell us what laws we should have. Much of this hasn’t been attempted before in this country, so at least some of the relevant laws are vague. If they do pull it off, why would the top researchers and students in the world stay when they are in high demand by countries not policing thought?

Ridiculous DEI policies resulted in Harvard hiring a fake Indian as a law professor & a serial plagiarist as president. Hard to see why DEI is something they think is worth fighting for.

I think you missed the point. They can drop AA without dropping the entirety of DEI. The latter is a superset.

What’s funny though is the gov is demanding an even more subjective form of DEI run by themselves and calling it “viewpoint diversity.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

Sounds like you skipped the letter with the Trump admin’s demands. In the second link.

I literally quoted from the article.

No one is forcing Harvard to do anything.

Harvard is throwing a hissy fit because it wants to do certain things AND get taxpayer funds.

Doesn’t work like that.

There are many concerns with the demands, but here are three:

-Harvard is being told they have to end recognition of student orgs merely accused of things, not proven to have done those things. Many of the allegations have been disputed.

-Affirmative action and DEI aren’t the same. DEI can still play a role in ensuring no discrimination, but they are being told even that is not allowed.

- Most seriously, Harvard employees and students would be immediately evaluated for “viewpoint diversity. ” If not satisfying the gov, future hires and admits would need to reach whatever level of parity the gov sees fit. Viewpoint diversity is a subjective assessment, and easily corrupted to disallow academic criticism of public policy. That would remove yet another “check,” as the politicians studied by academics would now control the hiring of those asking the questions, not unlike what just happened with the WH press corps.

Can the gov withhold Harvard funding if their demands aren’t met? Possibly, but that doesn’t make it right, as the courts exist to determine compliance with the law, not to tell us what laws we should have. Much of this hasn’t been attempted before in this country, so at least some of the relevant laws are vague. If they do pull it off, why would the top researchers and students in the world stay when they are in high demand by countries not policing thought?

Ridiculous DEI policies resulted in Harvard hiring a fake Indian as a law professor & a serial plagiarist as president. Hard to see why DEI is something they think is worth fighting for.

I think you missed the point. They can drop AA without dropping the entirety of DEI. The latter is a superset.

What’s funny though is the gov is demanding an even more subjective form of DEI run by themselves and calling it “viewpoint diversity.”

That is hands down the funniest part of this. Replacing "Diversity Equity Inclusion" with "Viewpoint Diversity" and all enforced by constant surveillance of everything said by anyone affiliated with the school.

[Anonymous]

No you are looking at different things. Viewpoint diversity is about making sure all viewpoints are welcomed. DEI has morphed into putting one group over another based on past wrong etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Harvard is awarded such research dollars because they provide higher ROI than many other R1 institutions. Nobody at USAF gives a flying F about the name brand when they need advanced materials research. They gave it to Harvard (or MIT or wherever) because they know the quality of the product.

Move the money elsewhere and cross your fingers that our top students and researchers will follow it.

Just keep in mind that public funding priorities shift every 2 years or so. Places like Harvard survive for 100+ years because they are not completely beholden to public funding. Many other schools are.

The fine researchers will go to where the money is already.
Just a little shuffling, no big deal.

This is where you are really wrong. The researchers will go where their intellectual peers are already. Eating sandwiches and talking about neutrinos together at lunch.

You are totally wrong.
Their intellectual peers are already gone to where the funding is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Harvard is awarded such research dollars because they provide higher ROI than many other R1 institutions. Nobody at USAF gives a flying F about the name brand when they need advanced materials research. They gave it to Harvard (or MIT or wherever) because they know the quality of the product.

Move the money elsewhere and cross your fingers that our top students and researchers will follow it.

Just keep in mind that public funding priorities shift every 2 years or so. Places like Harvard survive for 100+ years because they are not completely beholden to public funding. Many other schools are.

The fine researchers will go to where the money is already.
Just a little shuffling, no big deal.

This is where you are really wrong. The researchers will go where their intellectual peers are already. Eating sandwiches and talking about neutrinos together at lunch.

You are totally wrong.
Their intellectual peers are already gone to where the funding is.

Chicken or egg question. Are they all at "Harvard" because that is where their peers are? Or are their peers at "Harvard " because that is where the funding is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So dumb. “No government — regardless of which party is in power — should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue”’

The government isn’t saying that. No one is forcing Harvard to do anything. They have a billion dollar endowment and can do as they please.

What they can’t do is foster an educational atmosphere of harassment and expect the taxpayers to finance it.

Sounds like you skipped the letter with the Trump admin’s demands. In the second link.

I literally quoted from the article.

No one is forcing Harvard to do anything.

Harvard is throwing a hissy fit because it wants to do certain things AND get taxpayer funds.

Doesn’t work like that.

There are many concerns with the demands, but here are three:

-Harvard is being told they have to end recognition of student orgs merely accused of things, not proven to have done those things. Many of the allegations have been disputed.

-Affirmative action and DEI aren’t the same. DEI can still play a role in ensuring no discrimination, but they are being told even that is not allowed.

- Most seriously, Harvard employees and students would be immediately evaluated for “viewpoint diversity. ” If not satisfying the gov, future hires and admits would need to reach whatever level of parity the gov sees fit. Viewpoint diversity is a subjective assessment, and easily corrupted to disallow academic criticism of public policy. That would remove yet another “check,” as the politicians studied by academics would now control the hiring of those asking the questions, not unlike what just happened with the WH press corps.

Can the gov withhold Harvard funding if their demands aren’t met? Possibly, but that doesn’t make it right, as the courts exist to determine compliance with the law, not to tell us what laws we should have. Much of this hasn’t been attempted before in this country, so at least some of the relevant laws are vague. If they do pull it off, why would the top researchers and students in the world stay when they are in high demand by countries not policing thought?

Ridiculous DEI policies resulted in Harvard hiring a fake Indian as a law professor & a serial plagiarist as president. Hard to see why DEI is something they think is worth fighting for.

I think you missed the point. They can drop AA without dropping the entirety of DEI. The latter is a superset.

What’s funny though is the gov is demanding an even more subjective form of DEI run by themselves and calling it “viewpoint diversity.”

That is hands down the funniest part of this. Replacing "Diversity Equity Inclusion" with "Viewpoint Diversity" and all enforced by constant surveillance of everything said by anyone affiliated with the school.

Oh no... Now instead of claims that schools have been infected with DEI we are going to hear that they have been infected with VD. Sheesh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is the one has been acted like fascist and cartel.

We need major reformation.

Yes only RWNJ propaganda will be taught!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extortion. No previous White House has ever tried to use the power of the state to steer the nation’s preeminent institutions of higher learning in an ideological direction favored by the president.

“U.S. research universities, and the federal funding that supports them, are one major reason Americans have collected more Nobel Prizes than citizens of any other country. They also help make the United States the world’s innovation engine and the top destination for foreign students. No other country is as adept at converting raw human talent and ideas into cutting-edge products. Research universities anchor innovation clusters such as Silicon Valley, which in turn fuel the country’s economic growth.”

Nearly a month ago, for example, Columbia University agreed to most of the White House’s demands in the hopes that Trump and his team would restore $400 million in federal funding. Not only were those hopes soon dashed — Columbia didn’t get its money back — but the administration soon after proposed installing oversight personnel to help run the school in ways that would make the president happy.

In effect, the White House responded to Columbia’s appeasement by trying in part to take over Columbia.

+100

People cheering for this are puppets. It’s the beginning of a fascist regime. They want to control all of the elite universities so there are no alternative ideas or push back. Much like firing all the IGs.

Obama sent letters threatening universities to install DEI or lose funding. Full compliance.

Obama did not tell schools their federal funding depended on creating entire DEI programs, much less demand to pick students and faculty who shared his party’s “viewpoints.” If you mean trans kids getting to use the restroom that matched their identity, you can’t possibly think that was as consequential as reshaping the ideology of any entire university’s population, as the Harvard letter lays out. I’m all for diversity of thought, but the gov should not be in the business of evaluating what that looks like when it itself swings so dramatically from one election to the other.

Republicans are supposed to favor small gov!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having Harvard stop doing research is like the Post Office stop doing mail. It makes no sense and it doesn't help any American ..


Oh wait, they're also trying to do that.

Harvard can do research all it wants. It's a free country. Nobody is stopping it.

Sure. Except it won’t be doing research for US federal programs.

Stopping this research primarily hurts the US, not Harvard.

Harvard is not the only university in the US.

This isn’t like shopping around for someone to fix your car. Researchers aren’t interchangeable and there will be significant loss of institutional knowledge.

This petty tantrum will primarily hurt the US.

Nice job, idiots. You don’t even comprehend the harm that you are inflicting on yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s put this in perspective. If a Harvard grad were to manage its endowment and earn 4.25% then that would cover the $2.2B.

So, send the money to help support public education and let Harvard do its own thing.

There are enough R1 public institutions to pick up the slack.

There are people on this thread who have zero understanding of higher ed financing.
Trump is eviscerating NIH, the CDC, and the NSF. Where do you think R1s are supposed to be getting their funding? Why don't you actually try to educate yourself before making nonsense comments. It's not just Harvard and private universities that are being skewered, it's all universities, both public and private, that have a significant research arm.

All funding is not being cut. Reasonable amounts are being offered for overhead costs and if I am not mistaken Columbia’s funding has been released.

Sanity is being brought to the process. So, perhaps take a moment to step back and think before you criticize those that are far more informed than you appear to be.

“Sanity is being brought to the process”
It sounds like you believe that. What they are doing is the opposite of sane. And it’s being done out of retribution and spitefulness. The consequences will be felt by you. Not just others, but you as well.