Hey is it good diplomacy to demand the Panama Canal back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is good diplomacy. The US built and paid for the Panama Canal. The issue Trump is raising is about China-controlled ports there, and I don't see why the US should have to put up with China imposing extortionate fees on access to a canal we built. It's actually very bad foreign policy to ignore our adversaries and cede dominance to them.

We also have the issue of China controlling ports in the US. This is behind Trump supporting the union over automation.

Yeah. Interestingly, the people on the thread expressing anger about Trump's position haven’t explained why they are in favor of China's dominance in that region.

Easy answer.

Because modern American democrats are actually communists-in-hiding, and being communists, they will aid and abet other communists - excuse me - fraternal socialist allies - around the world.

If something is good for the Chinese Communist Party, then it’s good with American democrats, too.

You are giving the Dems too much credit. They are not capable of an international conspiracy and carrying water for the COMINTERN. It is much simpler. After 20 years of identity politics Cultural Revolution brainwashing, most Dems just view everything as “Whitey bad POC good” ergo supporting Chinese communist and “LatinX” drug runners equals good.

You know….I thought about this almost the entire time I was walking my dogs just now… and I think you’re probably right. At least with the masses. I still contend that there are communist fellow travelers among our gilded coastal elite of the democrat party, but among the rank-and-file leftists, it’s probably as you elude to.

They’re not even smart enough to be actual ideologists.

Very sad. We assign these people too much credit.

You sound unhinged.

This is such a feckless and lazy retort. It’s so threadbare from overuse. Anyone still using the phrase “you sound unhinged” should be ridiculed and made fun of for being intellectual slob they are. Much as with the word “racist”, “unhinged” doesn’t even have any real meaning anymore because it’s been so totally and completely overused and misapplied by the left. Everything they take issue with, oppose or dispute is now “unhinged”.


FFS, will someone buy them a thesaurus for Christmas or Chanukah? There’s a whole language out there to make use of!

If you’re the one that wrote the following sentence from the long thread above, then you need to buy a dictionary and not lecture others about their limited vocabulary.

“I still contend that there are communist fellow travelers among our gilded coastal elite of the democrat party, but among the rank-and-file leftists, it’s probably as you elude to.” Look up the difference between “elude” and “allude.”

[Anonymous]

Let’s take Cuba too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is good diplomacy. The US built and paid for the Panama Canal. The issue Trump is raising is about China-controlled ports there, and I don't see why the US should have to put up with China imposing extortionate fees on access to a canal we built. It's actually very bad foreign policy to ignore our adversaries and cede dominance to them.

We also have the issue of China controlling ports in the US. This is behind Trump supporting the union over automation.

Yeah. Interestingly, the people on the thread expressing anger about Trump's position haven’t explained why they are in favor of China's dominance in that region.

Easy answer.

Because modern American democrats are actually communists-in-hiding, and being communists, they will aid and abet other communists - excuse me - fraternal socialist allies - around the world.

If something is good for the Chinese Communist Party, then it’s good with American democrats, too.

You are giving the Dems too much credit. They are not capable of an international conspiracy and carrying water for the COMINTERN. It is much simpler. After 20 years of identity politics Cultural Revolution brainwashing, most Dems just view everything as “Whitey bad POC good” ergo supporting Chinese communist and “LatinX” drug runners equals good.

You know….I thought about this almost the entire time I was walking my dogs just now… and I think you’re probably right. At least with the masses. I still contend that there are communist fellow travelers among our gilded coastal elite of the democrat party, but among the rank-and-file leftists, it’s probably as you elude to.

They’re not even smart enough to be actual ideologists.

Very sad. We assign these people too much credit.

You sound unhinged.

This is such a feckless and lazy retort. It’s so threadbare from overuse. Anyone still using the phrase “you sound unhinged” should be ridiculed and made fun of for being intellectual slob they are. Much as with the word “racist”, “unhinged” doesn’t even have any real meaning anymore because it’s been so totally and completely overused and misapplied by the left. Everything they take issue with, oppose or dispute is now “unhinged”.


FFS, will someone buy them a thesaurus for Christmas or Chanukah? There’s a whole language out there to make use of!

If you’re the one that wrote the following sentence from the long thread above, then you need to buy a dictionary and not lecture others about their limited vocabulary.

“I still contend that there are communist fellow travelers among our gilded coastal elite of the democrat party, but among the rank-and-file leftists, it’s probably as you elude to.” Look up the difference between “elude” and “allude.”

DP. That pj's writing style is radically different.

You are telling on yourself every time you post about literacy and vocabulary, and about wealth. I don't know how you ended up here, but this is one of the most educated and wealthy user bases on the internet. No one here lives in a trailer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Panama has had a drought, water is expensive.
The increase in fees is justified and the long line of ships waiting to cross is just a symptom of the water shortage.

Does Trump know a magical rain dance that would allow US ownership of the canal to fix the issue?

The canal isn't filled with fresh water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is bringing visibility to a serious issue. This is how he does it. If you don't realize that by now, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the serious issue? Transit fees and ship quotas caused by drought and low water levels?

This isn't some petty bete noire of Trump’s. The Panama Canal is the transport mechanism for huge amounts of American goods, and US companies and consumers stand to gain a lot from evening the playing field. You really haven't provided an answer to any of this beyond "nuh uh" and "your dumb" and lots of cuss words. But these are indeed serious issues that the US has been tracking for quite some time.

The playing field isn't uneven. The U.S. isn't being treated unfairly. Trump may regret that the U.S. turned the canal over to Panama but he has no actual recourse.

We have quite a bit of recourse at this stage. But if we wait, while China gets more entrenched and sets up military bases, we will lose the ability to set the situation back to its prior status. The time to strike is now, while the situation between Panama and China is still nascent and fragile. Not when China has gained strength and Panama has more to lose by backing off of their relationship.

Is there any actual evidence that this is occurring?

Reread what I wrote. I said if we wait, they will become entrenched and set up military bases.

Yes, there are reports that China has discussed building military bases with various latin american governments.

This article gives a good overview of what I mean by China's attempts to become entrenched: https://www.southcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-ARTICLES/Article/3553735/the-expanding-leverage-of-the-peoples-republic-of-china-in-latin-america-implic/

Do you think threatening the sovereignty of an ally nation with a pro-US government would make it more or less likely that they will turn towards China?

And I acknowledge that I did not directly answer your question. So in follow up- it will make them more likely to turn away from China and toward us.

The last time we invaded Panama and arrested it's leadership, it really improved relationships. But. Here we are again, so we need to take action again.

I would not characterize Panama as an ally as you repeatedly have. They are a client state.

1. Yes, the overthrow of the Noriega dictatorship did, over time bring the US and Panama closer together as Panama embraced democracy.

2. As a democracy we do not have client states. That is something only authoritatian regimes have. We have partners and allies. Panama and Colombia are our two strategic allies in the region.

3. It is interesting to note when Panama de-recognized Taiwan and when they started their dalliance with China. 2017-2018. Guess what was happening with US foreign policy at that time.

4. Since then, despite not having an Ambassador for four years due to GOP Senate holds, much has changed. Including the Government of Panama.

5. We have seen what happens when we practice D-bag Diplomacy. It drives friends towards our rivals and harms our strategic interests.

6. The increase in transit fees is due to known environmental factors and is applied across the board. That is what he tweeted about not China. If it was about China then it would have been one of the worst ways to go about trying to influence the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's Trump creating a red herring when he can't reduce grocery prices, deport 13 million illegal immigrants then he somehow blames all our problems on Carter ceding the Panama Canal back to Panama!

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Trump creating a red herring when he can't reduce grocery prices, deport 13 million illegal immigrants then he somehow blames all our problems on Carter ceding the Panama Canal back to Panama!

This.

That has been his m.o. in the past so expect to see it continue. Ditto his sudden interest in Greenland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Panama has had a drought, water is expensive.
The increase in fees is justified and the long line of ships waiting to cross is just a symptom of the water shortage.

Does Trump know a magical rain dance that would allow US ownership of the canal to fix the issue?

Global cooling has lowered sea level


Told ya. I am the science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see we’re already back to the MAGA faithful inventing justifications to make sense of Trumps delusions.

I like watching them pretzel themselves into mental contortions trying to decipher his angry declarations or wild claims. It’s all very convenient as to when he’s “just kidding” or “being serious”. It’s sort of like how Qanon used to tweet amorphous language and idiotic followers would then form their own conclusions as to what the cryptic language meant.

But yes, Trump is surely “playing 4d chess” and “flipping the script” (as Fox News loves to say) with Greenland, Canada, and now Panama. It’s pure genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He actually has a very good point here. We built it and paid for it, and now they’re charging us way more than just the cost of administration to use it. It’s insane that we’ve put up with it this long. These are the things that raise the cost of our goods, and I’m so glad we have someone in charge (or will have very soon) who can fix stuff like this. And the idea of them letting the Chinese build things there and make us pay more is also insane. I wasn’t aware of this issue but I’m so glad that Trump is dealing with it.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Panama has had a drought, water is expensive.
The increase in fees is justified and the long line of ships waiting to cross is just a symptom of the water shortage.

Does Trump know a magical rain dance that would allow US ownership of the canal to fix the issue?

The canal isn't filled with fresh water.

OMG. Why do people post who have no idea what they are talking about.

The canal lock system works on gravity. FRESH water from comes from Lake Gatun which is next to the canal. The water flows downhill to fill the canal locks. If they used seawater in the canal locks it would be really, really expensive and take vast amounts of energy to pump water up. Then add to that seawater having salt is corrosive to the lock system and it isn't good for the environment to introduce salt water into a freshwater environment.

[Anonymous]

Maybe this is slightly off topic on this post but I think it is relevant.

The Suez Canal ship traffic has declined by half because the Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen are firing on ships transiting to and from the Suez Canal. Ships have to transit from the Indian Ocean to the Red Sea through this strip before going up to Egypt and the Suez. So instead of goods from Asia going through the Suez Canal ships are having to spend two extra weeks going around Southern Africa and then going to Europe.

So this greatly affects the price of goods and supply chains in Europe. So who is intervening in Yemen to attempt to get the attacks on ships stopped? A European led force? No, it is a US led mission called Operation Prosperity. Many countries in Europe such as Spain, France and Italy are declining to help.

So instead of the US pouring money into Panama to ensure the US supply chain isn't impacted we are spending so much money on the Suez Canal.

European countries need to step up and use their taxpayer dollars and military personnel to deal with the Suez not the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this is slightly off topic on this post but I think it is relevant.

The Suez Canal ship traffic has declined by half because the Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen are firing on ships transiting to and from the Suez Canal. Ships have to transit from the Indian Ocean to the Red Sea through this strip before going up to Egypt and the Suez. So instead of goods from Asia going through the Suez Canal ships are having to spend two extra weeks going around Southern Africa and then going to Europe.

So this greatly affects the price of goods and supply chains in Europe. So who is intervening in Yemen to attempt to get the attacks on ships stopped? A European led force? No, it is a US led mission called Operation Prosperity. Many countries in Europe such as Spain, France and Italy are declining to help.

So instead of the US pouring money into Panama to ensure the US supply chain isn't impacted we are spending so much money on the Suez Canal.

European countries need to step up and use their taxpayer dollars and military personnel to deal with the Suez not the US.

Very interesting and insightful post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is bringing visibility to a serious issue. This is how he does it. If you don't realize that by now, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the serious issue? Transit fees and ship quotas caused by drought and low water levels?

This isn't some petty bete noire of Trump’s. The Panama Canal is the transport mechanism for huge amounts of American goods, and US companies and consumers stand to gain a lot from evening the playing field. You really haven't provided an answer to any of this beyond "nuh uh" and "your dumb" and lots of cuss words. But these are indeed serious issues that the US has been tracking for quite some time.

The playing field isn't uneven. The U.S. isn't being treated unfairly. Trump may regret that the U.S. turned the canal over to Panama but he has no actual recourse.

We have quite a bit of recourse at this stage. But if we wait, while China gets more entrenched and sets up military bases, we will lose the ability to set the situation back to its prior status. The time to strike is now, while the situation between Panama and China is still nascent and fragile. Not when China has gained strength and Panama has more to lose by backing off of their relationship.

Is there any actual evidence that this is occurring?

I suspect it will happening soon. With Trump threatening them, they’re going to try to find a military power to defend them. True genius to push Panama into Chinas arms.

[Anonymous]

Immigration. He wants to build a wall in Panama.