Hey is it good diplomacy to demand the Panama Canal back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love it!

I’m guessing you aren’t old enough to remember the last time the US fought an asymmetrical war in a jungle? Because my FIL was in Vietnam ans this massively pisses him off. (Spoiler alert, we’d have to take it by force. It’s not like Trump issues an EO and they hand it over).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once we buy Greenland we won't need to use the Panama Canal. We'll just ship stuff directly over the poles to our Canadian states. Genius.

Greenland isn’t for sale. Having visited Denmark, the Faroes and Greenland— I’m included to believe they actually mean this, and it is not a bargaining position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is good diplomacy. The US built and paid for the Panama Canal. The issue Trump is raising is about China-controlled ports there, and I don't see why the US should have to put up with China imposing extortionate fees on access to a canal we built. It's actually very bad foreign policy to ignore our adversaries and cede dominance to them.

Huh? China does have ports there. Just like we have ports or bases on foreign soil. But China does not control the Panama Canal. It also does not set or receive fees from ships that use it. Where are you getting this from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, because Fox News somehow isn’t running this story. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-says-he-might-demand-panama-hand-over-canal-2024-12-22/

Can another huge Trump supporter just like me share how happy they are at this incredible statesmanship? It’s like he was anointed by God to be president.

I hope this is satire....I can't tell anymore. If it's not you people are true idiots.

It's not satire. We didn't pay for the panama canal and give it to Panama out of the kindness of our hearts. They agreed to provisions that they aren't enforcing, to the benefit of China and the detriment of the US.

This issues goes to the heart of the divide between the left and the right. The left dislikes the US, hates our flag, despises patriotism, and wants to see us suffer on the world stage. The right embraces our role as superpower and wants the government to assert American interests where appropriate. And this is absolutely an appropriate venue.

Please explain the bolder. What provisions are not being enforced? And how does China benefit?

Also, how do you propose to get the canal back? Because Trump issues a EO? Give me a break. Vietnam showed we can’t win an asymmetrical jungle war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, because Fox News somehow isn’t running this story. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-says-he-might-demand-panama-hand-over-canal-2024-12-22/

Can another huge Trump supporter just like me share how happy they are at this incredible statesmanship? It’s like he was anointed by God to be president.

I hope this is satire....I can't tell anymore. If it's not you people are true idiots.

It's not satire. We didn't pay for the panama canal and give it to Panama out of the kindness of our hearts. They agreed to provisions that they aren't enforcing, to the benefit of China and the detriment of the US.

This issues goes to the heart of the divide between the left and the right. The left dislikes the US, hates our flag, despises patriotism, and wants to see us suffer on the world stage. The right embraces our role as superpower and wants the government to assert American interests where appropriate. And this is absolutely an appropriate venue.

The right flees from the US acting as a superpower. You are isolationist and refuse to acknowledge alliances that are in the US interest. Tearing up a treaty to extort money from a developing economy is not diplomacy.

Panama tore up the treaty when they violated its primary provisions. It's absolutely insane to me that you people think that other countries can do that and that the US has no right to respond. Re isolationism, I have no idea what you're talking about. This entire thread is full of people wringing their hands because of Trump's manifold foreign interactions lately. That doesn't sound isolationist at all. Open your eyes and see with your own eyes, not what the talking points tell you. Look up what isolationism is. And then look at what Trump does. Think your own thoughts.

Please expound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh so, it’s 4d chess when Trump send a bunch of angry messages to random allies? And it helps our position on the world stage? I’m just hoping someone can confirm that. Thanks!

Panama was the very first country in Latin America to sign on to the Belt and Road Initiative. That's not "ally" behavior. Panama can't lay out a red carpet for an adversary, worsen our economy, and then claim they are still an ally.

Of course Panama subscribes to the Belt and Road initiative. China has been aggressively courting Africa and Latin America with foreign aid, much as the US did in the Cold War, but no longer does. Now remind me which party keeps trying to eliminate foreign aid from the budget? Which part refers to counties like Panama as “sh&tholes”? Trump is trying to out-thug Putin in this hemisphere but anyone can see he’s a nonentity.

Fun fact: for a long time, Panama didn’t have diplomatic relations with China. These were r established in … 2017. Reminder me who took office that year? Oh.

[Anonymous]

I read that Panama profits 2.5 billion per year, almost entirely from the US, from canal fees collected. I do feel that’s far too much they’re making from us.

Is it true that we also give millions to maintain the canal, beyond the fees for each ship to go through? Can anyone confirm that? I would certainly expect them to pay for their own repairs from whatever fees they collect.

We’ve provided a lot of jobs there with the canal - there shouldn’t be an enormous profit on top of that. We gave them independence and built the thing in the first place - paid by American tax dollars and American lives. It’s their choice if they want to rip off other countries but they shouldn’t be allowed to rip us off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read that Panama profits 2.5 billion per year, almost entirely from the US, from canal fees collected. I do feel that’s far too much they’re making from us.

Is it true that we also give millions to maintain the canal, beyond the fees for each ship to go through? Can anyone confirm that? I would certainly expect them to pay for their own repairs from whatever fees they collect.

We’ve provided a lot of jobs there with the canal - there shouldn’t be an enormous profit on top of that. We gave them independence and built the thing in the first place - paid by American tax dollars and American lives. It’s their choice if they want to rip off other countries but they shouldn’t be allowed to rip us off.

Four things. One, if the US government pays anything, it’s for US military ships to pass through the canal. And it’s not like large ships— like aircraft carriers— can transit the canal. Most revenue comes from private businesses (American and otherwise) transporting goods through the canal to the US. And the fee structure is tied to size, freight and operation cost. Those businesses would not pay less money if the US owned the canal. They would just write the check to someone different. As a nation, we aren’t paying much to use the Panama Canal. As consumers, we pay the cost added to good— but the cost of goods isn’t more because ships pay Panama instead of the US.

Two- NOPE. The Panama Canal Authority collects fees and pays for maintenance. The Us does not pay to maintain the canal.

https://maintenanceworld.com/2023/05/17/panama-canal-maintenance-to-extend-life-another-100-years/#:~:text=Each%20year%20the%20canal%20authority,is%20currently%20experiencing%20a%20drought.

Three— you want it back? We never owned it to begin with. Before we turned it over, we leased it and paid a lump sum up front and annual fees to Panama to lease the canal. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/panama-canal-turned-over-to-panama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read that Panama profits 2.5 billion per year, almost entirely from the US, from canal fees collected. I do feel that’s far too much they’re making from us.

Is it true that we also give millions to maintain the canal, beyond the fees for each ship to go through? Can anyone confirm that? I would certainly expect them to pay for their own repairs from whatever fees they collect.

We’ve provided a lot of jobs there with the canal - there shouldn’t be an enormous profit on top of that. We gave them independence and built the thing in the first place - paid by American tax dollars and American lives. It’s their choice if they want to rip off other countries but they shouldn’t be allowed to rip us off.

Four things. One, if the US government pays anything, it’s for US military ships to pass through the canal. And it’s not like large ships— like aircraft carriers— can transit the canal. Most revenue comes from private businesses (American and otherwise) transporting goods through the canal to the US. And the fee structure is tied to size, freight and operation cost. Those businesses would not pay less money if the US owned the canal. They would just write the check to someone different. As a nation, we aren’t paying much to use the Panama Canal. As consumers, we pay the cost added to good— but the cost of goods isn’t more because ships pay Panama instead of the US.

Two- NOPE. The Panama Canal Authority collects fees and pays for maintenance. The Us does not pay to maintain the canal.

https://maintenanceworld.com/2023/05/17/panama-canal-maintenance-to-extend-life-another-100-years/#:~:text=Each%20year%20the%20canal%20authority,is%20currently%20experiencing%20a%20drought.

Three— you want it back? We never owned it to begin with. Before we turned it over, we leased it and paid a lump sum up front and annual fees to Panama to lease the canal. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/panama-canal-turned-over-to-panama

Missed fourth- China has a port in Panama. Just like we have bases all over. They have zero, zilch, nothing, nada to do with the operation of the canal, the terms of which are in a 1970s treaty we signed with Panama.

[Anonymous]

This is apparently a thread about Canada joining the US?

People keep saying it would be 51st state? Any chance each province becomes its own state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is apparently a thread about Canada joining the US?

People keep saying it would be 51st state? Any chance each province becomes its own state?

People who say this are morons. If you believe this, you are too much of a moron for me to explain why in detail. Bu
T let’s start here. They have zero desire to become American. You want a war with… Canada?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is bringing visibility to a serious issue. This is how he does it. If you don't realize that by now, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the serious issue? Transit fees and ship quotas caused by drought and low water levels?

This isn't some petty bete noire of Trump’s. The Panama Canal is the transport mechanism for huge amounts of American goods, and US companies and consumers stand to gain a lot from evening the playing field. You really haven't provided an answer to any of this beyond "nuh uh" and "your dumb" and lots of cuss words. But these are indeed serious issues that the US has been tracking for quite some time.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is bringing visibility to a serious issue. This is how he does it. If you don't realize that by now, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the serious issue? Transit fees and ship quotas caused by drought and low water levels?

This isn't some petty bete noire of Trump’s. The Panama Canal is the transport mechanism for huge amounts of American goods, and US companies and consumers stand to gain a lot from evening the playing field. You really haven't provided an answer to any of this beyond "nuh uh" and "your dumb" and lots of cuss words. But these are indeed serious issues that the US has been tracking for quite some time.

Exactly.

Ok, but explain to me how we are going to take it back without sending US troops there to do so? I thought Trump wanted to get us out of foreign wars. Of course, his record isn't very good on that...

[Anonymous]

The Panama thing makes slightly more sense to me now in terms of why Trump is spouting off about it. Same with Greenland.

But what in the world is Canada as a 51st state all about? Why would Trump think we want them to merge with us? I am baffled by this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Panama thing makes slightly more sense to me now in terms of why Trump is spouting off about it. Same with Greenland.

But what in the world is Canada as a 51st state all about? Why would Trump think we want them to merge with us? I am baffled by this point.

The man likes to talk. Do you know any New Yorkers? I do. They all like to talk—a lot.