Fascinating article from the WSJ re the methods of an "elite" college counseling firm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

No it doesn't. Harvard has never taken the best an the brightest. They used to take anyone who showed up and passed an entrance exam, then they took any boy who was moderately literate and went to the right prep school. Anyone remember when they took this loser:

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction, and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.

April 23, 1935
John F. Kennedy

None of this has anything to do with any of the comments you are responding to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Where does talent go today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

What does that mean? Kids that grow up to be writers on the Simpsons or SNL? The Harvard Lampoon still churns out lots of notable alums that go onto writing jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Conan O'Brian was never talented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

The founder said he didn’t go to a single party during his time at Harvard. What was he chasing? What kind of life are these kids chasing? What is the point of living like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

[Anonymous]

Schools love this because they get to brag about these kid's accomplishments. If Harvard wanted to dissuade it, they would publically state that they are trying to identify and reject these applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

The founder said he didn’t go to a single party during his time at Harvard. What was he chasing? What kind of life are these kids chasing? What is the point of living like that?

He was running his business in College and it was grossing over $1MM per year.

Unfortunately, his business probably required he graduate (though maybe just acceptance would work?). Not sure how it is different from Dell dropping out of UT after one year, or the Facebook origin story or Alexandr Wang founding Scale AI and dropping out of MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Where does talent go today?

These data tables are pretty telling.

Undergrad to B School

Undergrad to Med School

Undergrad to Law School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to me how openly cynical the founder of Crimson is. I suppose it’s capitalism at work, but turning a kid into a luxury good to be purchased does feel icky to me, personally. And a bit sad.

I know. That was the worst thing about the article.

The founder seemed like a really motivated bright guy and all he's doing with his talent is groom rich kids to get into Ivies with maybe a small pro bono angle along the way.

It's sad to think about how structured these kids' lives must be. I spent a lot of my youth reading about anything and everything I was interested in. This process turns kids into mini-adults before they are done growing.

I presume he owns probably 30% or more of a company with a $550MM valuation (article said that was the valuation of last funding round).

The fact that he has made a lot of money on paper does not mean he is contributing much value to society.

Are the counseling jobs adding valuable productivity to the economy? How many new jobs?

Has he invented anything patentable?

Is he applying his talent for public policy and education to change lives on a scale that impacts the broader society?

Seems to me like he's running a big 50/50 lottery for a chance to get a prestige undergrad degree. With a side of tutoring and life coaching.

You can make the same claims about 95% of commercial enterprises. His company is satisfying a market demand and providing jobs.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

Too many government/NPO/academia folks on DCUM. I know you find capitalism distasteful.

No, we just have more than a sophomoric understanding of it so we don’t blindly fawn over anyone who starts a business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why no one will hire students from these colleges ever again. They are all fake people who have done nothing real on their own. They will be terrible team players on projects.

This.
The AO’s who fall for this BS are signing the death warrant for these schools which will inevitably lose their luster as they churn out graduates of no substance.

+1. It happens slowly at first and then all at once.

It's already happening. There are quite a few companies and organizations that have changed their recruiting in recent years. As someone above noted, the Conan O'Brians of today don't go to Harvard anymore. Talent goes elsewhere today. And companies have picked up on that. It's very common to complain about recent grads from the most elite schools.

Conan O'Brian was never talented.

His nine-figure net worth suggests otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crimson prefers public school students over private. Also, they prefer to work with international students.

Yes, because it's well known now that your chances of elite college admissions are better in an uncompetitive environment. It's easier to stand out in the school, grading is easier, etc.

Waterford!

Many.public schools have competitive environments, but they have fewer networked students. That is more likely what he is trying to avoid.

I think the telling part of the article is the way he sees these schools as if they are trying to reject as many students as possible and only interested in status. That is not our experience (we are public school family with 2 at Ivies and no coach). He makes it adversarial to justify all these hiding. And then he uses that branding to fuel his business.