What country would you rather raise kid in?

[Anonymous]

Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Canada because it’s the most similar yet better with gun violence and parental leave.

People always mention moving to Canada but nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there. Maybe it's not that great afterall.

Nobody?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-expats-by-country
Here is an estimated look (not including ex-military personnel) of American expats by country.:
Each Country's Number of Expats
Mexico 799,248
Canada 273,226
United Kingdom 170,771
Puerto Rico 159,515
Germany 152,639
Australia 116,620
Israel 76,794
South Korea 68,050
France 61,668
Japan 58,340

Only because it's right over the border.

? Ok? ^^PP stated "People always mention moving to Canada but nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there. Maybe it's not that great afterall." I addressed that statement. People do move there.

People move there out of convenience and that's it. Hardly anyway dreams of moving to Canada the way they do the United States, or France, or England, or Japan. It's just like "Oh, sure it's right there.... why not?" The easy option.

ok, but why do you think they move there? And also, my post is a response to the PP's post of "nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there".

Out of convenience? Didnt we just say that?

That wasn't the point of the ^PP's post, but what difference does it make? Americans are moving to Canada.

Point of the thread: what country would you rather raise your kid in?

Answer: Canada

PP's response: no on moves there

My response: actually, there are people who move there

The point is, no one seems to really want to go there or dream of the place. Moving somewhere out of sheer convenience and ease is hardly some kind of glowing recommendation

? "no one seems to really want to go there " -- even if it is convenient, the fact is, many people are moving there.

The point that PP was making was most people dont actually seem very impressed or interest in moving to Canada. moving there cause it's literally right next door and easy hardly disproves that

Most people don’t seem very impressed with or interested in moving to Canada? Who are “most people”? Clearly you’re not including the 500,000 who immigrate there each year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would raise them in the USA first because, having lived abroad in many different countries, I think we have by far the best quality of life.
However, outside the US, my top personal choices would be:
Italy, France, Malaysia, England

LOL where exactly did you live? We’re not even CLOSE to having the best quality of life…

Actually we do. This is such nonsense. You spiked Americans have absolutely no idea how good you have it. If the UK was a state it would be #51 in every single metric.

WTF is a “spiked” American?

And you’ve obviously never lived in a Nordic country. Most places in the US are an absolute embarrassment in comparison. We’re still better than Canada, though, and I’ll die on that hill.

Don’t even get me started on Nordic countries.

Incredibly high COL with low salaries
Terrible weather
Lack of innovation and diversity of jobs
Rules/laws about everything
High taxes
*Insane mortgage debt* for income levels
Inflexible labor market due to laws
Everyone making roughly the same amount of money. A cleaner making not much less than an engineer.

Forced gender equality that in reality has just made life more difficult for women and easier for men. For example, women being pushed to take long parental leaves that are low paid with unavailable childcare. Women expected to have completely separate finances even if married and completely provide for themselves. Hence the parental leave since men are now not supporting women after they have children

Group think where everyone is the same and it you’re not, you’re a problem, which is why there is a lack of innovation and growth

Perfectly stated. The fantasy many Americans who have never left their hometown have towards the Nordic countries is pretty humorous when compared to the daily lived reality

Unlike you and the poster to whom you responded, some of us have *actually lived for years* in one or more Nordic countries, so we *actually* know what we’re talking about.

I love the US but we get a LOT of things wrong. It’s too bad our society has devolved into the two camps of “America sucks” or “USA! USA!” rather than acknowledging what we do well and actually trying to improve upon what we don’t do well.

I actually live in Germany and have for years, which is exactly how i know how accurate the PP's comment is. Maybe you're in some golden era of "look at me! I get to show off to my small town friends how cool I am because I live in Denmark!" but to those of us why have BTDT, it's not exactly impressive. It's okay for people to talk about their criticisms or downsides of something you love, I promise. And just be grateful that you have had the privilege, thus far, not to experience what the PP was speaking about. You seem like you have had a very small lived experience in life

Germany is not a Nordic country you idiot.

I'm aware you of that you utter clown. The point is many of the same issues with gender egalitarianism play a role in Germany as well. Are you really that stupid?

I guess I am stupid enough to think that your lived experience on Germany is utterly irrelevant in a conversation about quality of life in the *Nordic countries*. Maybe posters who have lived in Estonia or Latvia or Poland can chime in with their amazing insights as well.

No wonder you hate Germany. Their attention to precision and details must be frustrating to you.

“But I want to insert whatever random talking point I want to in a completely unrelated conversation!” Are you Sarah Palin?

You truly think there's no similarity at all between countries next to each other in Western Europe, that share similar culture and social values, both of whom have embraced gender egalitarianism and have similar paternity/maternity leave policies? If you really cant draw any kind of parallels, that I'm going to just accept that you truly are 70 IQ and just politely exit this conversation. It's like trying to argue with a toddler.

NP- Germany usually means military. So no, your contributions are not really relevant as they are too specific.

What are you talking about? That's not even remotely true. There are nine countries in the EU that have mandatory military service, and Germany IS NOT one of them. (Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

Sure. But you do recognise people have different experiences? I loved living in London and think it’s a great place to raise kids but others will disagree with me based on their own circumstances and priorities. I have no problem with that and don’t dismiss them as idiots as tends to happen on this thread.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would raise them in the USA first because, having lived abroad in many different countries, I think we have by far the best quality of life.
However, outside the US, my top personal choices would be:
Italy, France, Malaysia, England

LOL where exactly did you live? We’re not even CLOSE to having the best quality of life…

Actually we do. This is such nonsense. You spiked Americans have absolutely no idea how good you have it. If the UK was a state it would be #51 in every single metric.

WTF is a “spiked” American?

And you’ve obviously never lived in a Nordic country. Most places in the US are an absolute embarrassment in comparison. We’re still better than Canada, though, and I’ll die on that hill.

Don’t even get me started on Nordic countries.

Incredibly high COL with low salaries
Terrible weather
Lack of innovation and diversity of jobs
Rules/laws about everything
High taxes
*Insane mortgage debt* for income levels
Inflexible labor market due to laws
Everyone making roughly the same amount of money. A cleaner making not much less than an engineer.

Forced gender equality that in reality has just made life more difficult for women and easier for men. For example, women being pushed to take long parental leaves that are low paid with unavailable childcare. Women expected to have completely separate finances even if married and completely provide for themselves. Hence the parental leave since men are now not supporting women after they have children

Group think where everyone is the same and it you’re not, you’re a problem, which is why there is a lack of innovation and growth

Perfectly stated. The fantasy many Americans who have never left their hometown have towards the Nordic countries is pretty humorous when compared to the daily lived reality

Unlike you and the poster to whom you responded, some of us have *actually lived for years* in one or more Nordic countries, so we *actually* know what we’re talking about.

I love the US but we get a LOT of things wrong. It’s too bad our society has devolved into the two camps of “America sucks” or “USA! USA!” rather than acknowledging what we do well and actually trying to improve upon what we don’t do well.

I actually live in Germany and have for years, which is exactly how i know how accurate the PP's comment is. Maybe you're in some golden era of "look at me! I get to show off to my small town friends how cool I am because I live in Denmark!" but to those of us why have BTDT, it's not exactly impressive. It's okay for people to talk about their criticisms or downsides of something you love, I promise. And just be grateful that you have had the privilege, thus far, not to experience what the PP was speaking about. You seem like you have had a very small lived experience in life

Where in Germany are you? Are you affiliated with the USG/military? I ask only because that really changes the experience of living in another country. I've lived in other countries both ways, so it's not a judgment just a statement.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

Sure. But you do recognise people have different experiences? I loved living in London and think it’s a great place to raise kids but others will disagree with me based on their own circumstances and priorities. I have no problem with that and don’t dismiss them as idiots as tends to happen on this thread.

Sure, people have different experiences. It's just clear from many of the comments in this thread that quite a few people that commented don't have first hand knowledge. Remember (if you saw it) that thread about places you hated that kind of devolved into an India thread? I lived in India as an expat for a number of years. I liked living in India. Tons of people hate it. Different experiences. I can see why some people hate it. Same for raising kids in London (although money helps there, it is pretty $$$)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would raise them in the USA first because, having lived abroad in many different countries, I think we have by far the best quality of life.
However, outside the US, my top personal choices would be:
Italy, France, Malaysia, England

LOL where exactly did you live? We’re not even CLOSE to having the best quality of life…

Actually we do. This is such nonsense. You spiked Americans have absolutely no idea how good you have it. If the UK was a state it would be #51 in every single metric.

WTF is a “spiked” American?

And you’ve obviously never lived in a Nordic country. Most places in the US are an absolute embarrassment in comparison. We’re still better than Canada, though, and I’ll die on that hill.

Don’t even get me started on Nordic countries.

Incredibly high COL with low salaries
Terrible weather
Lack of innovation and diversity of jobs
Rules/laws about everything
High taxes
*Insane mortgage debt* for income levels
Inflexible labor market due to laws
Everyone making roughly the same amount of money. A cleaner making not much less than an engineer.

Forced gender equality that in reality has just made life more difficult for women and easier for men. For example, women being pushed to take long parental leaves that are low paid with unavailable childcare. Women expected to have completely separate finances even if married and completely provide for themselves. Hence the parental leave since men are now not supporting women after they have children

Group think where everyone is the same and it you’re not, you’re a problem, which is why there is a lack of innovation and growth

As I suspected, a list of complaints made by a person who has obviously never *lived* in one of these Nordic hellholes.

The quality of life is AMAZING and they’re extremely kid/family friendly societies. But they do expect their citizens to be educated and responsible members of the community, so I can see why a person such as yourself would be fearful of that.

I don’t think the QOL is high for working moms with kids. I think it’s the same grind with less flexibility and ability to outsource.

How do you know I’ve never lived there?

Do you disagree with things like the insanely high levels of mortgage debt or inflexible labor market?

Your list of grievances boils down to “I don’t know want to live in a society that isn’t completely divided into the haves and have-nots”. Your complaints about the quality of life of working mothers is patently absurd, given the long parental leaves and easy access to high quality daycare and schooling. (Newsflash: as a society, we don’t have that here.)

Just so you know, you’re still allowed to be a “kept woman” in the Nordics, which seems to be what you’re ultimately concerned about.

NP, but you dismissing her very genuine concerns about how the labor of motherhood is distributed unequally among the genders as a byproduct of the so called egalitarianism of the nordic countries makes YOU come off misogynistic and extremely self centered. It's not a good look, and certainly not emblematic of the progressive mindset you claim to embody. Actually it seems very backwoods, regressive, which is maybe where you're from originally

Did you have ChatGPT produce this word salad for you? Nothing in this paragraph makes any sense. What point are you trying to make? Do you think fathers should take on more of the “labor of motherhood”? Do you know what mothers are and what fathers are?

Seriously, I’m embarrassed for you.

Sure, of course fathers should be taking on some of the labor of motherhood, and trying to make the stress and level of work for their female partner go down. The fact that this is so baffling for you makes it obvious why youve never noticed the issue in your years of living in Nordic nations. What selfish, unempathetic, stupid person.

Should mothers take in the labor of fatherhood? You are incredibly unintelligent, BTW.

LOL of course you would say that. The "what aboutism" whenever someone points out how much more labor mothers do is really not a good look. And if you were trying to genuinely convince people that the Nordic countries (and its fans) are truly all about egalitarianism and equality for women, you just blew up your argument.

LOL. Because I know that mothers are women and fathers are men? Female parents are called mothers and male parents are called fathers? That the labor of *parenthood* is what you probably think you were talking about?

I also don’t give a single sh!t about “egalitarianism and equality for women”. I just know that Nordic countries produce happier, more competent people than the US (which includes men, women, and children).

Maybe Laura Ingraham can read you a bedtime story tonight while you rage cry.

Oh right, the whole "mothers and fathers are different, so who cares if the mother does all the work?" argument. It's okay, you dont have to keep arguing. You already proved the PP's point about how regressive the "egalitarianism" of Nordic countries are, and how said egalitarianism is often used as a smoke screen to dump all the labor on women. Actually, you proved her point quite beautifully, better than she could have herself. What a backwards, regressive person you are.

I honestly have no idea what you’re even talking about.

Please, explain to me like I’m 5:
1). In what specific way(s) are the Nodric countries are “regressive” when it comes to gender egalitarianism
2). How said alleged regressiveness “dumps all the labor on women”
And 3) how I personally have proved “that point quite beautifully”

Please show your work.

Honestly, just click "open thread" and scroll back to the first PP who gave a really well reasoned explanation of her problem with Nordic countries, particularly how the burden of parenting labor is actually unduly placed on women under the guise of egalitarianism. You may literally be 5, it kind of seems that way, but I'm not about to explain it you like you are when you simply could have read the thread before engaging/arguing.
Your misogyny, rude mocking of concerns about women's parening/motherhood labor as "Go cry and listen to Laura Ingraham" has exposed you as nothing more than your run of the mill, regressive, backwoods misogynist. You can move to Norway all you want, you're still a dyed in the wool troglodyte with a third world view of women's labor. But thank you for making that so clear and again, proving women's point about the hidden misogyny in the Nordic culture

Got it. You can’t back up any of your bizarre claims. (FTR PP didn’t have a well reasoned explanation either. She just stated that Nordic countries are regressive. You do know that anyone can say literally anything, right? Doesn’t mean it’s remotely true. Idiot.)

You’re overly defensive. I’m the one who wrote the list about Nordic countries. That’s a personality trait I’ve noticed about Scandinavians. Extreme hostility if anything negative is mentioned about their country. Everyone seems to drink the koolaid and thinks everything is perfect.

You claimed that Nordic countries are repressive to women because the cultural expectation (NB there are no laws mandating this) is that women be financially independent and capable of supporting themselves. You claimed that it is somehow more difficult to raise children there because women are provided with extended maternity leaves and expected to take them (while conveniently not mentioning the fact that men are provided with extended paternity leaves and expected to take them). You also make the case that it is a worse place to raise children because even a *gasp* cleaner can make a living wage. And who would ever want to live in a place where the engineers became engineers primarily because they are passionate about their fields rather than a motivation for money? And the Nordic countries punch way above their weight (based on size alone) when it comes to technological innovation. Educate yourself.

You mention a higher cost of living in everyday life while failing to note the freedom from the need to save for (and stress about): university, healthcare, and retirement.

Your argument (and I am being extremely generous labeling it as such) boils down to “but muh taxes!”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

Sure. But you do recognise people have different experiences? I loved living in London and think it’s a great place to raise kids but others will disagree with me based on their own circumstances and priorities. I have no problem with that and don’t dismiss them as idiots as tends to happen on this thread.

Sure, people have different experiences. It's just clear from many of the comments in this thread that quite a few people that commented don't have first hand knowledge. Remember (if you saw it) that thread about places you hated that kind of devolved into an India thread? I lived in India as an expat for a number of years. I liked living in India. Tons of people hate it. Different experiences. I can see why some people hate it. Same for raising kids in London (although money helps there, it is pretty $$$)

OP would be much better asking this in an expat site where people might share their actual experiences of the benefits and challenges. Too many people here just wanting to slag off Canada or trying to assert that the US is in fact the best place to raise kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

Sure. But you do recognise people have different experiences? I loved living in London and think it’s a great place to raise kids but others will disagree with me based on their own circumstances and priorities. I have no problem with that and don’t dismiss them as idiots as tends to happen on this thread.

Sure, people have different experiences. It's just clear from many of the comments in this thread that quite a few people that commented don't have first hand knowledge. Remember (if you saw it) that thread about places you hated that kind of devolved into an India thread? I lived in India as an expat for a number of years. I liked living in India. Tons of people hate it. Different experiences. I can see why some people hate it. Same for raising kids in London (although money helps there, it is pretty $$$)

OP would be much better asking this in an expat site where people might share their actual experiences of the benefits and challenges. Too many people here just wanting to slag off Canada or trying to assert that the US is in fact the best place to raise kids.

PP here. I agree with that. Guess that was sort of my point, too many people with no experience of the countries (or very limited experience) posting about them as if it's fact. There are clearly a few posters interspersed who have lived in or are from some of them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Canada because it’s the most similar yet better with gun violence and parental leave.

People always mention moving to Canada but nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there. Maybe it's not that great afterall.

Nobody?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-expats-by-country
Here is an estimated look (not including ex-military personnel) of American expats by country.:
Each Country's Number of Expats
Mexico 799,248
Canada 273,226
United Kingdom 170,771
Puerto Rico 159,515
Germany 152,639
Australia 116,620
Israel 76,794
South Korea 68,050
France 61,668
Japan 58,340

Only because it's right over the border.

? Ok? ^^PP stated "People always mention moving to Canada but nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there. Maybe it's not that great afterall." I addressed that statement. People do move there.

People move there out of convenience and that's it. Hardly anyway dreams of moving to Canada the way they do the United States, or France, or England, or Japan. It's just like "Oh, sure it's right there.... why not?" The easy option.

ok, but why do you think they move there? And also, my post is a response to the PP's post of "nobody ever takes their own suggestion and moves there".

Out of convenience? Didnt we just say that?

That wasn't the point of the ^PP's post, but what difference does it make? Americans are moving to Canada.

Point of the thread: what country would you rather raise your kid in?

Answer: Canada

PP's response: no on moves there

My response: actually, there are people who move there

The point is, no one seems to really want to go there or dream of the place. Moving somewhere out of sheer convenience and ease is hardly some kind of glowing recommendation

? "no one seems to really want to go there " -- even if it is convenient, the fact is, many people are moving there.

The point that PP was making was most people dont actually seem very impressed or interest in moving to Canada. moving there cause it's literally right next door and easy hardly disproves that

YOU are the only person saying that people only move to Canada “cause it's literally right next door and easy”. Nobody else is saying that. I would personally love to retire in Canada.

[Anonymous]

Argentina
Hungary
South Korea
Singapore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone commenting on this thread actually moved countries with kids? I have but no point in sharing. I get the impression people here are more interested in denigrating the priorities and choices of other people than actually understanding or exploring why people choose differently. I guess that DCUM for you.

Most of the people posting on here don't know anything firsthand about the countries they are posting about. I guarantee you that all the people posting about the Scandinavian countries have never been there or don't know the culture(s) well. If they did, they would be a lot less likely to want to move there.

Sure. But you do recognise people have different experiences? I loved living in London and think it’s a great place to raise kids but others will disagree with me based on their own circumstances and priorities. I have no problem with that and don’t dismiss them as idiots as tends to happen on this thread.

Sure, people have different experiences. It's just clear from many of the comments in this thread that quite a few people that commented don't have first hand knowledge. Remember (if you saw it) that thread about places you hated that kind of devolved into an India thread? I lived in India as an expat for a number of years. I liked living in India. Tons of people hate it. Different experiences. I can see why some people hate it. Same for raising kids in London (although money helps there, it is pretty $$$)

OP would be much better asking this in an expat site where people might share their actual experiences of the benefits and challenges. Too many people here just wanting to slag off Canada or trying to assert that the US is in fact the best place to raise kids.

I lived in Canada as well as half a dozen other countries. Canada is a good place to raise children if you are UMC and live in a big metro area. Just like the US. Out in the boonies or with low income, it sucks. Also just like the US. Actually, that seems to be the general rule for a lot of countries. Perhaps instead of wishing you lived somewhere different, just try to be a rich person. Money pretty much solves everything.

[Anonymous]

Iceland
Switzerland
In both countries: excellent schools, almost free universities, good health care.

[Anonymous]

I grew up myself in USA and in Europe. I am raising my kids overseas. I would 100% rather raise them in nearly any western european major city to the USA for multiple reasons mainly because of safety, independence and quality of life. Happy to answer more questions!