SFFA doesn't like the Asian American %

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Performance in university is not the measuring stick that a school uses for it's students. These schools exist to create leaders. When yet another Prime Minister comes out of Oxbridge or a President from the ivies, do you think the schools lament that they're a failure because they didn't do better while in school?

And those leaders from Oxbridge are often just wealthy and complete dolts.

Not quite. The Brits have the same problem we have here - too many "leaders" who are "intellectual but idiot" - usually because they are prisoners of the insane ideology that Oxbridge, like the Ivies, selects for.

No one who still has their grey matter locked into their skull casket looks at Boris Johnson and thinks “that’s a public (or private) intellectual.” Going to eton allows you to walk into Oxbridge.

He is absolutely a very smart man. His parents were smart, too. He excelled at Eton and Oxford. He was a journalist for many years. He has written several books. He is certainly an intellectual.

He had wealthy parents and connections through his PPE degree, surely he’s smart because book!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.”

Yes. It is quite ridiculous. SCOTUS is the most corrupt court ever and has no credibility and no ethics. They didn’t ban it for the military. Why is that? They didn’t address legacy admissions-otherwise known as white affirmative action. Why is that? Again, it’s all a lie. Nobody is entitled to go to these schools. Get over yourselves.

They didn't ban it for the military because national security holds a special place in constitutional analysis and the military academies have potentially distinct interests in considering the race of the applicant. Did you read the opinion?

They didn't address legacy admissions but SFFA did argue that they could achieve more diversity by abandoning legacy admissions but there is no constitutional prohibition from favoring legacies, but there is a constitutional prohibition from racial discrimination. Did you rad the opinion?

It's true, nobody is entitled to go to these schools, not even under-represented minorities.
It sounds like you are trying to defend racial discrimination when it suits your purposes.

Just a reminder of the vast gulf in academic ability of different groups:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

8% of blacks get a 1200 or higher on the SAT
5% of hispanics get above a 1300 on the SAT
7% of whites get above a 1400 on the SAT
9% of asians get above a 1500 on the SAT

1% of blacks get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
2% of hispanics get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
7% of whites get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
23% of asians get a 1400 or higher on the SAT

Study harder and compete. Don't make excuses and complain.
Studies show that these differences are attributable in large part due to extra time studying. We've known this for at least a decade.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1406402111

If you don't want to study until past midnight every night, then don't complain that the ones that do get into better schools than you.

Academic ability as it applies to SATs only! SATs are only one factor.

It is the single most predictive factor and correlates with pretty much every other important factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

This is a nit but I would like to point out that the studies you are talking about only apply to test scores and performance at highly selective colleges.
I know that is what we are talking about here but GPA may a better predictor than SAT scores at non-competitive colleges.
https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.”

Yes. It is quite ridiculous. SCOTUS is the most corrupt court ever and has no credibility and no ethics. They didn’t ban it for the military. Why is that? They didn’t address legacy admissions-otherwise known as white affirmative action. Why is that? Again, it’s all a lie. Nobody is entitled to go to these schools. Get over yourselves.

They didn't ban it for the military because national security holds a special place in constitutional analysis and the military academies have potentially distinct interests in considering the race of the applicant. Did you read the opinion?

They didn't address legacy admissions but SFFA did argue that they could achieve more diversity by abandoning legacy admissions but there is no constitutional prohibition from favoring legacies, but there is a constitutional prohibition from racial discrimination. Did you rad the opinion?

It's true, nobody is entitled to go to these schools, not even under-represented minorities.
It sounds like you are trying to defend racial discrimination when it suits your purposes.

Just a reminder of the vast gulf in academic ability of different groups:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

8% of blacks get a 1200 or higher on the SAT
5% of hispanics get above a 1300 on the SAT
7% of whites get above a 1400 on the SAT
9% of asians get above a 1500 on the SAT

1% of blacks get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
2% of hispanics get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
7% of whites get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
23% of asians get a 1400 or higher on the SAT

Study harder and compete. Don't make excuses and complain.
Studies show that these differences are attributable in large part due to extra time studying. We've known this for at least a decade.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1406402111

If you don't want to study until past midnight every night, then don't complain that the ones that do get into better schools than you.

Academic ability as it applies to SATs only! SATs are only one factor.

It is the single most predictive factor and correlates with pretty much every other important factor.

They’ve ruined the SAT by making it easier to get high scores. So it’s lost a lot of its power as a predictive factor. They could fix this tomorrow, but no one seems interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is what people thought would happen…that it would benefit whites the most…yet how many Asians were on this forum celebrating the end of AA.

Asians complain about model minority and them totally believe in it when convenient.

Those darn Asians, believing in transparent policies with fair standards for all

If you think they’re fighting for anyone besides their personal child, I have got a lovely bridge you should buy.

If you think anyone is fighting for anyone besides their personal child or their personal vanity, I have a lovely bridge you should buy.

I disagree. There are plenty of folks who support URM admissions into universities, who aren’t URMs.

+1

I attended a T10 school and I’m ok if my kids don’t go there. They will be fine almost anywhere. Better that the spot goes to someone who will benefit from it more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

This is a nit but I would like to point out that the studies you are talking about only apply to test scores and performance at highly selective colleges.
I know that is what we are talking about here but GPA may a better predictor than SAT scores at non-competitive colleges.
https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

But noone thinks that skin color, your parent's alumni status, or your income is particularly well correlated to college performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

Yeah, go back to where you came from and eat each other's pets there. Amirite?

What an absolute misread of that posters comment. No one is chaining your child to go to college in America. They’d be more worldly competing with the brightest in Britain and Germany if that’s what they desire.

No, they were being xenbophobic and racist. If you can't see that, you have to ask yourself why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is what people thought would happen…that it would benefit whites the most…yet how many Asians were on this forum celebrating the end of AA.

Asians complain about model minority and them totally believe in it when convenient.

Those darn Asians, believing in transparent policies with fair standards for all

If you think they’re fighting for anyone besides their personal child, I have got a lovely bridge you should buy.

If you think anyone is fighting for anyone besides their personal child or their personal vanity, I have a lovely bridge you should buy.

I disagree. There are plenty of folks who support URM admissions into universities, who aren’t URMs.

Those people are mostly trying to alleviate white guilt (mostly at the expense of asian kids)

The asians that do this are sellouts that are throwing asian kids under the bus to suck up to liberal white people

You’re arguing the only reason white people support Affirmative Action is white guilt? You are grossly misinformed.

So then give me your reason for supporting affirmative action that doesn't involve the horrible stuff that white people did to black people?

[Anonymous]

Colleges can look at how race affects someone on an individual level:
“Nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise”
-John Roberts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

You seem to be saying that immigrants should not have the same protections against racial discrimination as the rest of us?

I don't think you see this sort of complaint in those countries because those countries don't have racial discrimination in college admissions like we do. These countries literally use a single test or series of tests as the sole criteria for admissions.

If the UK started to limit the population of Indians at Oxbridge to prevent it from getting too brown, I suspect they people would object.

Your kids don't get to stand ahead of smarter immigrant kids just because you were born here.

I will say it once more...are there Americans in these foreign countries complaining about the college systems of those countries? Make them white Americans if you want...I don't care.

I bet there are many who think admissions should be based on something other than test scores, like the American system.

But do they complain loudly about the system of the country in which they reside, or figure out how to adapt to that system?

I will say this again, why would they complain about racism if there is no racism and why shouldn't people here complain about racism just because they are imigrants?

Your kid doesn't get to stand ahead of smarter kids just because their parents were born here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

The folks who are against universal healthcare say the same thing as you.
The folks who are against any form of gun control say the same thing as you.
The folks who think we should tax corporations at reasonable rates say the same thing as you.

You should not be defending racial discrimination because "this is america" It's actually quite unamerican

Uh no it isn’t. It is actually very American. The myth of the meritocracy is left for everyone who doesn’t have legacy status at these institutions. I can’t think of anything more American than the myth of a meritocracy.

If other countries use meritocracy even more than america then how is it so uniquely american?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

This is a nit but I would like to point out that the studies you are talking about only apply to test scores and performance at highly selective colleges.
I know that is what we are talking about here but GPA may a better predictor than SAT scores at non-competitive colleges.
https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

Oh LA Times did a story on this very topic:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-22/grades-vs-sat-scores-which-is-a-better-predictor-of-college-success#:~:text=The%20six%2Dyear%20graduation%20rate,1600%2C%20the%20highest%20score%20possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Now Ed Blum's group doesn't like the decrease in admitted Asian American students at Yale, Princeton, and Duke.

This is getting ridiculous.

Excerpt from a New York Times article from today:

"The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules."

It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.

The percentage of Asian American accepted to these schools went up sharply when the law suit was filed. Not when SCOTUS released their decision. The schools were already ahead of it. So it's unsurprising that admissions numbers are generally flat for Asian Americans.

What is interesting is how much divergence there is with how each particular college is handling admissions in the year since the decision. There is no uniformity. Most see value to the overall educational experience of their communities when there is a broad array of students with a wide variety of backgrounds. But there is no consensus on how to achieve that presently.

And SFFA are just a bunch of political grifters out to make bank out of a hot button issue. I can assure you they do not care about the well-being of any student in America.

This is why we always have to look at the bigger picture.

And the Rs are definitely trying to push this as a wedge issue. They are happy to cherry-pick some data to spin up some votes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

Universities accept the students they want. They want a diverse class (diverse in all ways). Not everyone will get into an Ivy League. Move on. I have never understood the sense of entitlement the families involved in the lawsuit have. It’s absurd.

Objecting to racial discrimination is not a sense of entitlement.

Private bus companies get to decide who sits where on the bus. They want to separate the whites from the blacks. Not everyone will always get a seat, move on. Imagine the sense of entitlement it takes to demand that you get to sit anywhere on the bus. It's absurd.

There is zero proof that an admissions spot for an Asian student went to an URM. I reject there is discrimination at play in rejections. Tons of great kids get rejected.

Of course there is. We had an entire supreme court case laying this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

Universities accept the students they want. They want a diverse class (diverse in all ways). Not everyone will get into an Ivy League. Move on. I have never understood the sense of entitlement the families involved in the lawsuit have. It’s absurd.

Objecting to racial discrimination is not a sense of entitlement.

Private bus companies get to decide who sits where on the bus. They want to separate the whites from the blacks. Not everyone will always get a seat, move on. Imagine the sense of entitlement it takes to demand that you get to sit anywhere on the bus. It's absurd.

Ah yes, a public service like a bus and…Harvard. Very similar.

It was a private bus company. They reserve the right to refuse service based on race unless they sit in the designated areas.