S/o What the f do you all want from doctors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:patient scores are about how much drugs the doc is willing to rx-think adderall, xanax and percocet and NOT about the doc being nice and competent---believe me

I always get a survey and have never taken any of those drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

They are incapable of doing the work.

It’s always the people whose time is worth the least who are the loudest when it comes to this topic. That same group of unsophisticated obnoxious losers gripe about everything else in life. They also tend to skew towards the insane, showing up to their GP appointment with a big stack of their own research, demanding they have some special medical condition that warrants 10x the care of everybody else. The trend is easy to spot.

Meanwhile, those whose time is actually worth something either 1) deal with the system as it is or 2) pay for a higher level of service. That same group is aware life is hard and tend to be aware of the need to wear a helmet sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

The number of doctors making that kind of money is absolutely tiny. Your argument doesn’t hold water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

They are incapable of doing the work.

It’s always the people whose time is worth the least who are the loudest when it comes to this topic. That same group of unsophisticated obnoxious losers gripe about everything else in life. They also tend to skew towards the insane, showing up to their GP appointment with a big stack of their own research, demanding they have some special medical condition that warrants 10x the care of everybody else. The trend is easy to spot.

Meanwhile, those whose time is actually worth something either 1) deal with the system as it is or 2) pay for a higher level of service. That same group is aware life is hard and tend to be aware of the need to wear a helmet sometimes.

The rich are aware that life is hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

They are incapable of doing the work.

It’s always the people whose time is worth the least who are the loudest when it comes to this topic. That same group of unsophisticated obnoxious losers gripe about everything else in life. They also tend to skew towards the insane, showing up to their GP appointment with a big stack of their own research, demanding they have some special medical condition that warrants 10x the care of everybody else. The trend is easy to spot.

Meanwhile, those whose time is actually worth something either 1) deal with the system as it is or 2) pay for a higher level of service. That same group is aware life is hard and tend to be aware of the need to wear a helmet sometimes.

What if you’re someone tired of #1 but don’t have the money for #2?

I’m the easiest of patients. I don’t come in with any Google research. I make one appointment for one issue. I respect the doctor’s time and don’t try to monopolize it.

Yet I feel ignored and passed by. I can see why people self-advocate now. It may be the only way to get a level of care they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

I’ll take a PA who listens over a MD who doesn’t.

We stopped going to a doctor at our practice and only request the PA. She’s GOOD. She’s thorough, respectful, and she finds info when she needs to. The Dr? She spends 3-5 minutes in the room, and I don’t think she even looks up from her laptop when she’s in there.

The PA is worth every dollar she makes. I can’t say the same for the doctor.

MD is expected to see all their own patients and supervise the PA. Behind closed doors the PA is running to the MD with questions. So the MD has more on her plate. PAs have it good- no liability, no residency, and good money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

I’ll take a PA who listens over a MD who doesn’t.

We stopped going to a doctor at our practice and only request the PA. She’s GOOD. She’s thorough, respectful, and she finds info when she needs to. The Dr? She spends 3-5 minutes in the room, and I don’t think she even looks up from her laptop when she’s in there.

The PA is worth every dollar she makes. I can’t say the same for the doctor.

MD is expected to see all their own patients and supervise the PA. Behind closed doors the PA is running to the MD with questions. So the MD has more on her plate. PAs have it good- no liability, no residency, and good money.

From your explanation, can I assume that the MD is simply doing other work on that laptop as she ignores me during my appointment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

They are incapable of doing the work.

It’s always the people whose time is worth the least who are the loudest when it comes to this topic. That same group of unsophisticated obnoxious losers gripe about everything else in life. They also tend to skew towards the insane, showing up to their GP appointment with a big stack of their own research, demanding they have some special medical condition that warrants 10x the care of everybody else. The trend is easy to spot.

Meanwhile, those whose time is actually worth something either 1) deal with the system as it is or 2) pay for a higher level of service. That same group is aware life is hard and tend to be aware of the need to wear a helmet sometimes.

What if you’re someone tired of #1 but don’t have the money for #2?

I’m the easiest of patients. I don’t come in with any Google research. I make one appointment for one issue. I respect the doctor’s time and don’t try to monopolize it.

Yet I feel ignored and passed by. I can see why people self-advocate now. It may be the only way to get a level of care they need.

I’m the person you quoted. And I’m where you are, but I just deal with it. I’m also aware that my family didn’t even have access to anywhere near the kind of medical care we have just two generations ago.

People generally lack perspective and fail to realize what dealing with the general public is like. There is a huge gulf between “I feel ignored” and “my standard of care is actually endangering my health.” Meanwhile, the same group that endlessly grips is extremely melodramatic and is convinced their health in actually jeopardy when in reality is just how they “feel” about the interaction. Like I said, the pattern is easy to spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

I’ll take a PA who listens over a MD who doesn’t.

We stopped going to a doctor at our practice and only request the PA. She’s GOOD. She’s thorough, respectful, and she finds info when she needs to. The Dr? She spends 3-5 minutes in the room, and I don’t think she even looks up from her laptop when she’s in there.

The PA is worth every dollar she makes. I can’t say the same for the doctor.

MD is expected to see all their own patients and supervise the PA. Behind closed doors the PA is running to the MD with questions. So the MD has more on her plate. PAs have it good- no liability, no residency, and good money.

From your explanation, can I assume that the MD is simply doing other work on that laptop as she ignores me during my appointment?

No that’s she’s more squeezed for time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

They are incapable of doing the work.

It’s always the people whose time is worth the least who are the loudest when it comes to this topic. That same group of unsophisticated obnoxious losers gripe about everything else in life. They also tend to skew towards the insane, showing up to their GP appointment with a big stack of their own research, demanding they have some special medical condition that warrants 10x the care of everybody else. The trend is easy to spot.

Meanwhile, those whose time is actually worth something either 1) deal with the system as it is or 2) pay for a higher level of service. That same group is aware life is hard and tend to be aware of the need to wear a helmet sometimes.

What if you’re someone tired of #1 but don’t have the money for #2?

I’m the easiest of patients. I don’t come in with any Google research. I make one appointment for one issue. I respect the doctor’s time and don’t try to monopolize it.

Yet I feel ignored and passed by. I can see why people self-advocate now. It may be the only way to get a level of care they need.

I don't get this one issue concept. If someone has a sore leg but it also hurts to breathe do they just mention one symptom and fail to be diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism stemming from a dvt? How will their multi symptom autoimmune disease ever be diagnosed if they can only mention one thing at a time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

The number of doctors making that kind of money is absolutely tiny. Your argument doesn’t hold water.

So, your argument is the correct amount for doctors to be paid is what they are currently paid or more? You can’t imagine them making any less? Because nearly every American makes a lot less, and a lot of us work for a lot less at jobs that are a lot harder.

Yes, being a doctor is hard, but it’s also hard being a garbage man. It’s very well paid to be a doctor and that’s fine - but it’s very galling when doctors are so unpleasant to you, and you know your paying them so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

The idea of having to work with all those pri*ks who currently are in the job.

But seriously, take half the money we overpay doctors with and set up some med school scholarships. Recruit women, minorities and immigrants, promise to pay them several hundred grand a year, but be clear it won’t automatically be $600k+… you’ll have plenty of docs.

I don't think you've been reading the thread. Most docs don't make this. I think you a fighting a figment of your imagination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

Why are you fixated like this on something that is not common?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

I’ll take a PA who listens over a MD who doesn’t.

We stopped going to a doctor at our practice and only request the PA. She’s GOOD. She’s thorough, respectful, and she finds info when she needs to. The Dr? She spends 3-5 minutes in the room, and I don’t think she even looks up from her laptop when she’s in there.

The PA is worth every dollar she makes. I can’t say the same for the doctor.

This is great! You are happy with what you have. Win-win all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

Why are you fixated like this on something that is not common?

Then $300k doc salaries shouldn't be so much of a threat to the supply of physicians.