S/o What the f do you all want from doctors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:55, I forgot two more:

I do to want to have pay to park for the privilege of seeing you

I do not want to wait 30 minutes (or more) in your waiting room and another 30 minutes (or more) in the exam room before I am graced with your presence for less than 10 minutes, and then I have to pay even more for parking, for the time I spent waiting for you

You’re going to have to pay for concierge service to get all of this. It’s readily available to you. But…I’m guessing you don’t want to pay.

I'm not paying for concierge services when frankly my PCP is a minor part in my overall health management. The specialists who keep me going don't charge concierge fees.

FWIW, my new concierge pcp figured out stuff specialists (plural) hadn't and turned my health around. It's amazing what happens when they can talk to you for more than five minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:55, I forgot two more:

I do to want to have pay to park for the privilege of seeing you

I do not want to wait 30 minutes (or more) in your waiting room and another 30 minutes (or more) in the exam room before I am graced with your presence for less than 10 minutes, and then I have to pay even more for parking, for the time I spent waiting for you

You’re going to have to pay for concierge service to get all of this. It’s readily available to you. But…I’m guessing you don’t want to pay.

I'm not paying for concierge services when frankly my PCP is a minor part in my overall health management. The specialists who keep me going don't charge concierge fees.

FWIW, my new concierge pcp figured out stuff specialists (plural) hadn't and turned my health around. It's amazing what happens when they can talk to you for more than five minutes.

This isn't just about money for the concierge physicians, either. For many of them, it's about doing good and meaningful work, and actually helping people, without burning out. For many, it was either quit practicing (or go into pharmaceutical work, etc.) or go concierge. They are much happier as a group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

[Anonymous]

* competent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

[Anonymous]

My PCP at Kaiser is great, zero complaints. The only thing I’d say is people expect too much from doctors. They can only know a fraction of what there is to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

The idea of having to work with all those pri*ks who currently are in the job.

But seriously, take half the money we overpay doctors with and set up some med school scholarships. Recruit women, minorities and immigrants, promise to pay them several hundred grand a year, but be clear it won’t automatically be $600k+… you’ll have plenty of docs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My PCP at Kaiser is great, zero complaints. The only thing I’d say is people expect too much from doctors. They can only know a fraction of what there is to know.

I agree they can't know everything but why do some object when their patients go to Dr Google?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

No one thinks the NPs and PAs are "better." No one.

Some people absolutely find that mid-level providers tend to listen to their complaints and explain issues better than physicians. Not all health issues require the same level of training to address. And no level of training can make up for a doctor that doesn't bother to listen to their patients.

MLPs are providing plenty of care they are not competent to provide. They can "listen" all they want, they still don't have the training doctors have. Not even close.

I’ll take a PA who listens over a MD who doesn’t.

We stopped going to a doctor at our practice and only request the PA. She’s GOOD. She’s thorough, respectful, and she finds info when she needs to. The Dr? She spends 3-5 minutes in the room, and I don’t think she even looks up from her laptop when she’s in there.

The PA is worth every dollar she makes. I can’t say the same for the doctor.