S/o What the f do you all want from doctors?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours. [/quote]

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.[/quote]

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business. [/quote]

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic. [/quote]

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot. [/quote]

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best! [/quote]

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry! [/quote]


How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand. [/quote]

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.[/quote]

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this. [/quote]

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.[/quote]

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.[/quote]

Yes, [b]doctors need to make $600k a year[/b] because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.[/quote]

Why are you fixated like this on something that is not common? [/quote]

Then $300k doc salaries shouldn't be so much of a threat to the supply of physicians.[/quote]

PLENTY of talented doctors could be recruited for $300k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

I’ll do it.

DP. What's stopping you right now?

The idea of having to work with all those pri*ks who currently are in the job.

But seriously, take half the money we overpay doctors with and set up some med school scholarships. Recruit women, minorities and immigrants, promise to pay them several hundred grand a year, but be clear it won’t automatically be $600k+… you’ll have plenty of docs.

I don't think you've been reading the thread. Most docs don't make this. I think you a fighting a figment of your imagination.

The pay disparity between PCPs and certain specialties (e.g., radiologists, gastroenterologists, orthopedic surgeons, anesthesiologists, etc.) is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]
PLENTY of talented doctors could be recruited for $300k[/quote]

Tell that to the PP that claimed people would go into tech instead of medicine if they would only be paid $300k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PLENTY of talented doctors could be recruited for $300k

Tell that to the PP that claimed people would go into tech instead of medicine if they would only be paid $300k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

Why are you fixated like this on something that is not common?

Then $300k doc salaries shouldn't be so much of a threat to the supply of physicians.

This would be an upgrade to the average pediatrician. For the average OB-Gyn, once you subtract the average medical malpractice insurance premium ($100,000-200,000 per year), that would drop them to $100,000-$200,000 annually. Sure, you could do that, if you think it's a good idea.

I don't think you've really thought through this, but okay.

[Anonymous]

This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between
"makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

How much do you propose doctors make? NP and PA already make six figures. If doctors made the same why would anyone put themselves through the process of exams and residency? Tell me who would be dumb enough to do that? And then who would do all the free labor that residents provide hospitals? Someone help me understand.

250-300k would be a good level. But many doctors in procedurally-driven specialties make several times that amount.

You won’t be able to get component surgeons if you pay this. They’ll go into tech right out of college for this.

Yet the experiences of other western countries demonstrates otherwise.

They also have a very different debt structure for university and medical, different social support network, and different leave structure. Taxes are also different. It's great to sign up for all of that.

Yes, doctors need to make $600k a year because we don't have decent social welfare programs in the US. That makes complete sense.

Why are you fixated like this on something that is not common?

Then $300k doc salaries shouldn't be so much of a threat to the supply of physicians.

This would be an upgrade to the average pediatrician. For the average OB-Gyn, once you subtract the average medical malpractice insurance premium ($100,000-200,000 per year), that would drop them to $100,000-$200,000 annually. Sure, you could do that, if you think it's a good idea.

I don't think you've really thought through this, but okay.

Employers should be covering malpractice insurance. Physicians covering their own is an archaic practice from when most doctors were self-employed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

[Anonymous]

There is the case in point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

You’re a fan of hyperbole, it seems.

No, I think most of us posting would be thrilled if we could get 6-8 minutes of a doctor’s time, and it would be nice not to have questions or concerns quickly dismissed.

That’s not unreasonable, is it? Especially after waiting over an hour?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

You’re a fan of hyperbole, it seems.

No, I think most of us posting would be thrilled if we could get 6-8 minutes of a doctor’s time, and it would be nice not to have questions or concerns quickly dismissed.

That’s not unreasonable, is it? Especially after waiting over an hour?

Oh please. 6-8 minutes? Please time your next appointment and report back. You are getting that - likely more (unless you’re talking about urgent care). I think there is some gross exaggeration here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

You’re a fan of hyperbole, it seems.

No, I think most of us posting would be thrilled if we could get 6-8 minutes of a doctor’s time, and it would be nice not to have questions or concerns quickly dismissed.

That’s not unreasonable, is it? Especially after waiting over an hour?

Oh please. 6-8 minutes? Please time your next appointment and report back. You are getting that - likely more (unless you’re talking about urgent care). I think there is some gross exaggeration here.

DP. If I could change one thing about the discussion of what to do about healthcare, it's this. People in general have no idea of how long something takes. Just look at the time when you start a phone conversation, or when a doctor enters the room, and then again when they leave. Actually look at it, not just go by how it feels.

It would be great if people had the time they feel they need, and that is a perfectly important discussion. It really is. Math constrains us all, though, and to understand why there is a pervasive problem, we have to agree on what we are facing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

You’re a fan of hyperbole, it seems.

No, I think most of us posting would be thrilled if we could get 6-8 minutes of a doctor’s time, and it would be nice not to have questions or concerns quickly dismissed.

That’s not unreasonable, is it? Especially after waiting over an hour?

Oh please. 6-8 minutes? Please time your next appointment and report back. You are getting that - likely more (unless you’re talking about urgent care). I think there is some gross exaggeration here.

My comment is not exaggeration. I rarely see the doctor for more than 5 minutes. I’ll see nurses or techs for longer, but not the doctor. I’ve had to ask one to not walk out as I’m still asking questions.

This is my experience, at my practice and at my kids’ pediatrician. Perhaps it’s not yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an illuminating thread. I had no idea people thought ideas like these were tenable, or how much of functionality is left out of their estimations and opinions.

That's pretty wild.

What does this word salad mean?

DP
That people here actually think there is a way to have doctors spend 2 hours with them, going over their piles of internet research, holding their hand and exploring every single symptom they’ve ever had in their life, while enjoying a nice cup of chai tea. And all the while, the Dr is able to make a good salary and doesn’t feel overworked or stressed about making the rent and paying his employees. And the patient doesn’t have to pay extra for any of this!

You’re a fan of hyperbole, it seems.

No, I think most of us posting would be thrilled if we could get 6-8 minutes of a doctor’s time, and it would be nice not to have questions or concerns quickly dismissed.

That’s not unreasonable, is it? Especially after waiting over an hour?

Oh please. 6-8 minutes? Please time your next appointment and report back. You are getting that - likely more (unless you’re talking about urgent care). I think there is some gross exaggeration here.

My comment is not exaggeration. I rarely see the doctor for more than 5 minutes. I’ll see nurses or techs for longer, but not the doctor. I’ve had to ask one to not walk out as I’m still asking questions.

This is my experience, at my practice and at my kids’ pediatrician. Perhaps it’s not yours.

So you’re saying you’d be happy with 1-3 more minutes? Somehow I doubt that.