S/o What the f do you all want from doctors?

[Anonymous]

DP, and different doc.

I grew up in a converted summer cabin with a rotting floor and an outhouse. I can guarantee I've worked worse jobs than you, including janitorial staff, to get through school on scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It's wild to me that people still think doctors are making the business decisions. Do you think we have any say over how many patients we see/hr, how much time we get to spend with them, how much charting is required, or the cost of care? The only MDs calling these shots are self-employed practitioners are virtually none of them are primary care.

Private Equity has gutted medicine (and isn't done, it'll get worse) while health insurance companies continue to make basic care almost unaffordable. As an ER doc, I see this in real time every day as I manage people's diabetes, hypertension, obesity-related complaints, insomnia, dementia, and any other number of chronic complaints. For some numbers, go on over to the "young retirees" thread to peek at what people are paying for crappy outpt medical care (when they can find it).

If you think we aren't as frustrated as our patients, consider the need to retain the "doctors are evil" narrative. It's as useless as laying into your Delta pilot for cancelling your flight, when we all know airlines routinely overbook and have been bailed out by the feds a bunch of times.

I 100% consider my field of choice a public service field, and sometimes have really nice patients. Sometimes I'm assaulted at work (physically. I'm verbally assaulted almost daily but that's the ER). But we have No. Control. Your non-concierge PMD is in the same boat as me.

We simultaneously expect gold-plated health care in this country, don't want to pay for it, won't agree on a single-payer option to fix it, and won't control our weight, blood pressure, or blood sugar.

The public bashing us doesn't help, but honestly, we're too burned out. It just rolls off at this point.

I'm relatively pro doctor but EM in particilar sucks. I get the burnout due midlevels, admins, dealing with hospitalists, frequent flyers, etc. Unfortunately, EPs take theor anger out on patients. Go to any internet EM hangout; all they do is rage about how the elderly should just die instead of darkening EM's doorstep, suicidal psych patients shoud "sh*t pr get off the pot," and of course how dare parents ask for a plastics consult for a facial lac on a 6 hear old.

They all want reduced volume with the same pay.

Lol, "they all". Way to start. But I'll bite: What does reduced volume mean to you? If I see a new patient every 20 minutes is that too many? How about every 15 minutes? For 10 hrs? 12? Should the same time frame be allotted to a septic 85 yo, or the 45 yo guy who ate gummies today while golfing with his buddies? I know what a safe volume feels like, and how many patients I need to see to actually spend some time at the bedside having a meaninful convo with patients and families so they understand their disease, and 4-5 patients an hour isn't it. So you're right that we want reduced volume. Current volumes are unsafe and everyone is unhappy. Would you have us see higher volumes? To make the Sequoia Capital a bigger profit? As for the pay, lol. We are firmly in the middle of the compensatory spectrum. No one in EM is killing it, and everyone busts their @ss on shift. We're not given a choice; at our shop you get shown the door if you can't keep up. We see 250-400 patients every 24 hrs. But yes, tell me more about your thoughts on volume and pay.

This is what I mean by the doctor hate. It's such casual dismissal. As for the online forums, please. The most unhappy are always the most vocal. In all areas. People go online to vent, and the internet is a cesspool. The online forums reflects EM to the same extent the relationship forum of DCUM reflects marriage.

But honestly, it doesn't matter if you don't respect what I do. When you need an EM doc you'll see one and be treated. And if it's me, I'll probably do a pretty good job. I like what I do. I don't like being pushed like a racehorse to fund a financial system whose goal it is to replace me with an NP (who are great colleagues. But we need MDs in level 1 and 2 trauma centers). The point you cruised by to bash EM is that there is a currently unsustainable financial model in place that hurts patients. Jacks up the cost of their care, reduces the time we have with them, and is the leading cause of bankruptcy. That's the point. You may like your doc or not, but he or she isn't what's behind why you can't get your thyroid checked. When people understand why American healthcare sucks, they can vote or lobby accordingly. People deserve to know why the system is failing them. And it's not us.

How much do you make a year? You probably never worked another job, so you have little sense of how hard people work for so much less than you get.

Sorry, PP. But I worked for 5 years before I started med school. And yet, ask me what my debt was exiting training.

It's ok, I tried. The point of my post was to remind frustrated patients why your bills are exorbitant and your docs are unavailable. Systems don't change unless people understand the corporate wheel spinning merrily in the background making it all run. And I bet you do work hard. I do too. Almost all of us do. Isn't it remarkable how effective it is keeping docs and patients at each other's throats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that the only posters who have brought up the idea of doctors being "gods" or "demigods" are not actually the doctors. It's some weird projection thing.

More likely that even people trained with the expectation that they would be at the top of a hospital-based hierarchy recognize that saying “I expected to be treated like a God” is a bit outré.

You can smell the dejection about it not happening coming off some of them, though. Sometimes it’s mixed in with other odors, and sometimes it isn’t.

[Anonymous]

I want them to read my chart before I walk in. Every doctor I’ve seen in the last year has repeatedly asked me the same questions that just glancing at my chart would have answered. This includes my OB who I was seeing every single week. I was asked every week if this was my first child (no) and then at my six week follow up the doctor started talking about what to look out for since I had preeclampsia. I didn’t have preeclampsia. My PCP keeps asking if this is the first time I’ve seen her. Literally just glance at my chart? It’s insane and if I didn’t prep for anything at work I’d lose my job. I make about a tenth of what she makes.

[Anonymous]

névrose obsessionnelle

[Anonymous]

Competency and a willingness to work for a fair salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want them to read my chart before I walk in. Every doctor I’ve seen in the last year has repeatedly asked me the same questions that just glancing at my chart would have answered. This includes my OB who I was seeing every single week. I was asked every week if this was my first child (no) and then at my six week follow up the doctor started talking about what to look out for since I had preeclampsia. I didn’t have preeclampsia. My PCP keeps asking if this is the first time I’ve seen her. Literally just glance at my chart? It’s insane and if I didn’t prep for anything at work I’d lose my job. I make about a tenth of what she makes.

Same.

Also, when a consulting doctor adds tests to a patient’s file, read them before you walk in and don’t lie about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want them to read my chart before I walk in. Every doctor I’ve seen in the last year has repeatedly asked me the same questions that just glancing at my chart would have answered. This includes my OB who I was seeing every single week. I was asked every week if this was my first child (no) and then at my six week follow up the doctor started talking about what to look out for since I had preeclampsia. I didn’t have preeclampsia. My PCP keeps asking if this is the first time I’ve seen her. Literally just glance at my chart? It’s insane and if I didn’t prep for anything at work I’d lose my job. I make about a tenth of what she makes.

So what? She had years and years of training. Med school, residency, possibly fellowship. Likely has 6 figures in loans to pay back. She is undoubtedly more highly trained than you are. You are paying for that. For her expertise.

[Anonymous]

Stay out of the drs. office to the best of your ability. Take care of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Everyone agrees that if you do not have good reason to go to a doctor's office, you should not be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of the drs. office to the best of your ability. Take care of yourself.

Yeah, I don't want much from "doctors" in this country. They forget they're practicing the art of medicine and think they're scientists with hard facts.

It's a sh*tsh0w, for sure. And then the egos on top? Ugh. Best to avoid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Posters:

Why are doctors running late

Posters:

My doctors doesn’t spend enough time with me.

Which do you want? If doctors take the time to listen, they will be behind. There are booked for 15 mins which includes the vitals.

If your whole model is based on you not having the time to do the work, at some point you’re not really doing the work, are you?

That’s what the f we all want from doctors: for them to get loud enough about it to CHANGE IT.

How? You seem to think there is a way to do it, or that doctors can. You seem to be a citizen in a country going down in flames, politically -- so why haven't you CHANGED IT? why haven't you FIXED AMERICA?

Maybe because you can't, even you are a part of it. But yeah, nobody outside the country can fix America, either. Not so far.

Doctors’ professional organizations have stood shoulder to shoulder against most innovations that would improve the system for patients. (The AMA even opposed Medicare!) Maybe start by getting your own orgs, which you do control, acting for the greater good and not just for docs.

It is for sure what I am doing in the parallel circumstances in my own life to which you point.

How? I was a member of the AMA, but stopped giving them membership money because my voting didn't matter. I'm still a member of the AAP, which was formed in opposition to the AMA opposing Medicare and still supports universal health care for our patients.

But you don't care about that, do you?

AAP champions universal health coverage for all children in all settings
https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6554/AAP-champions-universal-health-coverage-for-all

https://www.aap.org/en/advocacy/health-care-access-coverage/
AAP Advocacy: Health Care Access & Coverage

So are you, what, running for political office? Are you actually changing anything, or are you just trumpeting around on the internet what you think other people should be doing? Why aren't you fixing America? A heckuva lot of your reps aren't doing what they should. Fix it.

Your description of your AMA membership trajectory really tells the story. The AMA is bigger and more powerful than the AAP. You quit to join an org that represented your opinions better, at a time when you thought you had the option to ignore what the larger and more powerful orgs were doing.

What you’re describing is a strategic mistake at every level of governance—organizations, political parties, the works. The answer is never to divest; it is to lean in on winning.

These folks you want me to fix are your reps as well, so I hope you’re calling them; they take docs a lot more seriously than they take patients.

And as a patient, I’d be a lot more willing to tolerate all your dithering with the EMR if I knew you were doing that.

I think it's hilarious that you think they will listen more to one doc than to a national voice of more than 65,000 members. You like to talk, don't you? Focus on being accurate instead.

Focus on returning the messages in your patient portal.

Hey, I'm the doc who was writing about just doing a 20 and 30 minute phone calls to go over labs, answer questions, etc. Not really anything has a chance to get backed up on portal.

[Anonymous]

Stop taking all this charting that no one reads. Change state laws so that so many simple medical visits do not need a doctor. ADHD meds, anxiety, colds, vaccinations do not require a doctor. Most doctors waste their time and my time. Very rarely as a young person have I needed expertise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop taking all this charting that no one reads. Change state laws so that so many simple medical visits do not need a doctor. ADHD meds, anxiety, colds, vaccinations do not require a doctor. Most doctors waste their time and my time. Very rarely as a young person have I needed expertise.

Doctors on Demand/Teledoc for simple stuff and meds, and your local pharmacy for vaccines. It all works great and not expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that the only posters who have brought up the idea of doctors being "gods" or "demigods" are not actually the doctors. It's some weird projection thing.

It's interesting that you believe anyone on an anon forum is who/what they say they are.

Doctors having huge egos/god complexes is a known trope for a reason. If that hasn't been your experience, lucky you, and I hope that continues in your favor. Either that, or you're a doctor, and can't see yourself without the mirror that's being held up for you, and you're calling it "projection" to avoid confronting the possibility that it's true, and you do see yourself as better than.