Crazy NYT article on the lab leak theory for COVID

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The epidemiological evidence for origins at the wet market is strong, with vendors and delivery people who worked there among the earliest cases admitted to hospitals. The majority of the early cases had direct links to the market, and the transmissibility of the virus was such that early cases not identified as linked to the market very well could have been, similar to one person who became infected who had been visited by a friend who did work at the market, even though that patient had not been to the market himself.

Plus there is no epidemiological evidence AFAIK for the virus originating from the lab.
As for the intelligence community, only 1 agency (not identified in their unclassified report) reported "with low confidence" that there was a lab origin.

Good article by a scientist written for general readership: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-03-08/covid-lab-leak-energy-department-fbi

So many great points but some people don’t like to think about how complex these things are and think everything is simpler than it is.

Educated people “get” nuance.

And the south and rural areas (Trump bastion) underfund education. In part because they don’t see the value of contributing to the tax base. They also treat real science the same is dogma (ie, creationism). So, you get the voting patterns one sees in our country.

Racist much? We get what you mean by lack of education in the south.

Yes, the white/male/“Christian” politicians who have underfunded public schools for years are racist MFers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The epidemiological evidence for origins at the wet market is strong, with vendors and delivery people who worked there among the earliest cases admitted to hospitals. The majority of the early cases had direct links to the market, and the transmissibility of the virus was such that early cases not identified as linked to the market very well could have been, similar to one person who became infected who had been visited by a friend who did work at the market, even though that patient had not been to the market himself.

Plus there is no epidemiological evidence AFAIK for the virus originating from the lab.
As for the intelligence community, only 1 agency (not identified in their unclassified report) reported "with low confidence" that there was a lab origin.

Good article by a scientist written for general readership: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-03-08/covid-lab-leak-energy-department-fbi

So many great points but some people don’t like to think about how complex these things are and think everything is simpler than it is.

Educated people “get” nuance.

And the south and rural areas (Trump bastion) underfund education. In part because they don’t see the value of contributing to the tax base. They also treat real science the same is dogma (ie, creationism). So, you get the voting patterns one sees in our country.

Racist much? We get what you mean by lack of education in the south.

Yes, the white/male/“Christian” politicians who have underfunded public schools for years are racist MFers.

Yes, they are and something tells me you are one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The epidemiological evidence for origins at the wet market is strong, with vendors and delivery people who worked there among the earliest cases admitted to hospitals. The majority of the early cases had direct links to the market, and the transmissibility of the virus was such that early cases not identified as linked to the market very well could have been, similar to one person who became infected who had been visited by a friend who did work at the market, even though that patient had not been to the market himself.

Plus there is no epidemiological evidence AFAIK for the virus originating from the lab.
As for the intelligence community, only 1 agency (not identified in their unclassified report) reported "with low confidence" that there was a lab origin.

Good article by a scientist written for general readership: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-03-08/covid-lab-leak-energy-department-fbi

So many great points but some people don’t like to think about how complex these things are and think everything is simpler than it is.

Educated people “get” nuance.

And the south and rural areas (Trump bastion) underfund education. In part because they don’t see the value of contributing to the tax base. They also treat real science the same is dogma (ie, creationism). So, you get the voting patterns one sees in our country.

Racist much? We get what you mean by lack of education in the south.

Yes, the white/male/“Christian” politicians who have underfunded public schools for years are racist MFers.

Yes, they are and something tells me you are one of them.

LOL, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

[Anonymous]

^ their job, typo

[Anonymous]

Also “small government” got us a totally disorganized and chaotic response.
But it was a “blue city” “ blue state” virus! WHO cares?!? Remember when Trump wouldn’t enact any of that mechanisms of federal government to help? He barely utilized the DPA.

Or when Jared had his school friends run the task force?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-the-markets-decide-covid-19-fate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

God I need to step off this thread, because reliving all of this stupidity is gonna give me a migraine.

Seriously guys. Get your heads out of your asses. There will be some other emergency and the republicans will F it all up again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also “small government” got us a totally disorganized and chaotic response.
But it was a “blue city” “ blue state” virus! WHO cares?!? Remember when Trump wouldn’t enact any of that mechanisms of federal government to help? He barely utilized the DPA.

Or when Jared had his school friends run the task force?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-the-markets-decide-covid-19-fate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-coronavirus-effort-said-to-be-hampered-by-inexperienced-volunteers/2020/05/05/6166ef0c-8e1c-11ea-9e23-6914ee410a5f_story.html

God I need to step off this thread, because reliving all of this stupidity is gonna give me a migraine.

Seriously guys. Get your heads out of your asses. There will be some other emergency and the republicans will F it all up again.

Maybe you should leave this discussion if you are going to get a migraine, don’t hurt yourself. But it wasn’t the Republicans who were wrong about the lab leak theory. Or the effect of mask legislation. Or the ramifications of extended school closures. And on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

The US has had terrible leadership for over seven years now. That matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with liberal politicians and press/media mocking the lab theories and dismissing them as conspiracies is that it erodes public trust in both politicians and the media. Who can you believe when you are being mocked for something that turned out to be correct? It might not be a big deal per se whether it came from a lab or not, but the consequences of these small lies are long-lasting and great.

The problem is we were/are drowning in misinformation and disinformation. There is no standard on how to deal with it. The media (right and left) just feed stories to anger their audience because it gets the viewers.

And the answer to that problem is not to shut down conversation. It's to educate people to be skeptical and think critically.

Science is supposed to be open minded and responsive to the evidence. The vicious shutting down of a lab leak debate in the early days of the pandemic is the opposite of what science is supposed to look like, and it created discord between the public and scientists right when the pandemic began. That suspicion of the public got worse and worse as time went on, but this is where it started. People aren’t idiots. They look at where the pandemic broke out, the crackdown on information from China at the time, and know a lab leak is a possibility.

It didn’t matter. In spring 2020 the lab leak theory was a worthless conversation.
Unless you worked for the White House and needed to change the subject from your abject failures.

There is nothing worthless about finding out where a virus that killed millions originated, both for understanding how it can about and for preventing it in the future. No amount of stomping your feet that this is an unimportant topic is going to be convincing to people. It mattered then and it mattered now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

Sure.
Now.
It sure didn’t then
Dickheads just used it as an excuse to beat up Asian people.
And you know it.

dp.. I'm Asian American. I suspected it could be a lab leak, but the vitriol by Trump and his team towards the Chlna virus (and I'm not even Chinese) was causing hate crimes against Asian Americans. A lot of the people who support Trump are racist, and constantly pointing fingers at another race just fueled their racism. There were covid patients who yelled at Asian American doctors for bringing in the virus.

That is why the rhetoric needed to be toned down. It was not helping.

When we had the MERs virus, we did not have a POTUS who constantly pointed fingers. There weren't people screaming at ME looking people about bringing in the virus (at least not to the degree we had during Trump's term).

Lab leaks happen. But, the question is, how is China (or any entity) going to ensure this doesn't ever happen again. And how will China be held accountable? Russia isn't going to support holding China accountable, and too many economies rely on Chinese exports.

By using common damn sense!! If you read the article, China was conducting gain of function research on the covid virus in a friggin BSL2 lab!!!! That's completely unacceptable risk for the entire world! It's mind boggling you people think China should be off the hook Scot free for conducting this kind of high risk research while having gross incompetence for safety and disregarding virtually all international standards for safety. If you read the actual article, the American scientist with ties to the research at the Wuhan lab knew it was being conducted under BSL2 and even explicitly stated that if American scientists found out that kind of research was being conducted in China under such lax safety oversight they would have lost their sh*t.

Why is it so hard to ask countries like China to obey international standards for every for this kind of research so they they don't kill millions of people yet again?

1. no one said China should go scott free
2. How are you going to enforce China obey international laws? We don't even obey all international laws.
3. Why did Trump defund the pandemic response team, and that included the scientists whose boots were on the ground in China at the time.

You want small government? That's what you got.

+1

I want a federal government that is unafraid to shutdown travel from China when the outbreak emerges without apology, since border control is literally there job, and I want a federal government that follows the lead where science takes us, not one that shuts down theories for political reasons. There’s a role for state and local government, but a pandemic requires a robust, evidence based and trustworthy federal government which we did not get.

Who was in charge of the federal government at that time🤔

Who is denying that both Trump and Biden made mistakes? But this thread is supposed to be about the suppression of the lab leak theory, not the presidents.

The lab leak theory was a worthless talking point meant to distract from anything productive. It didn’t save you from exposure. It didn’t trace cases. It didn’t help you get treated effectively. It didn’t supply PPE. It didn’t help the economy.
IT DID GET A BUNCH OF ASIAN PEOPLE PUNCHED.