Is it typical for elementary to group all IEP kids together in the same class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with all this and thank you for stating that so well PP. I am a special educator that has worked in home school model classrooms AND my own child is currently a student in a home school model classroom (not on an IEP). There are a mix of levels in her classroom and definitely high achieving kids. There is a very strong teacher and a special educator that plugs into her classroom. The class is small and when the kids with IEP's are pulled into groups, she gets way more attention then she would in a regular classroom. In fact, she gets math enrichment because the teacher has the time to do a group with the kids that are higher in math. What is really nice is that the kids with needs are already identified and getting support. There are actually not that many behaviors, nothing that seems out of the ordinary. As opposed to another classroom in the school where there is a child who is currently throwing chairs and its going to take a long process to get the supports needed. My child is thriving in the HSM classroom. I purposely requested this classroom because I knew the strength of the teacher and I believe in the model and I knew my child would benefit from the class size and attention.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

You are entirely missing the point. ESOL kids are generally not a problem except for when the teacher doesn't speak the language and uses the other kids to translate.

ESOL kids often take up a lot of a teacher's time. Yes, there are ESOL teachers but they have to support a lot of students just like the SPED teachers do. MANY ESOL kids are reading and writing below grade level. It can be challenging to communicate with their family. Many (not all) of their families have a lot of life factors making it harder for their kids to learn (food insecurity, moving frequently, living in small spaces with a lot of family making sleeping and studying hard, expectations for taking care of siblings and on and on).A lot of people chiming in here do not have classroom experience and it shows.

[Anonymous]

I’m an elementary para for sped inclusion (our school calls these Resource teachers and Resource assistants) and we absolutely group all IEP’s in one class per grade level whenever possible. Otherwise we just haven’t enough bodies to go around. We’d love more staff but the county won’t give it. I regularly monitor behavior/attention for 5-6 students at a time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

If there are 18 students in a classroom. 4 are high needs, 4 moderate needs, 4 low needs, 4 no SN. Who do you think they will cater to? The high and moderate needs. They slow down the curriculum and the low needs SN kids often get ignored. We had this happen to our child. It was a hot mess of a year and we had to pay for private services, which meant pulling our child out of school multiple times a week and additional tutoring to make sure the academics were grade level.

Again, some of you have never worked in a school and need to stay in your lane. Students with IEPs have a sped teacher that works with them. Usually in an inclusion classroom the main teacher is actually freed up to spend more time with the highest performing students because the teacher that works with the students with IEPs can oftentimes fold lower performing students into their small group.

But please, continue to debate those of us that work in inclusion settings.

But, teacher, please don’t denigrate parents with “stay in your lane”. Your practice is actually the problem because it means that kids with IEPs do not get to participate with the “high performing” students and instead are folded in with the “lower performing”. This description means you make two fundamental misunderstandings - that the kids on the IEP aren’t high performing intellectually AND that the instruction that’s necessary for the IEP kid is the same kind of instruction that the low performing kid needs.

My DC on an IEP with ADHD, Reading Disorder NOS and dysgraphia has a high IQ. He belongs in the advanced or honors environment. But, he has very specific writing instruction needs due to his language disorder diagnosis - that’s why he has an IEP, because he qualifies for “special instruction”. What happens when you group him with “lower performing students” is that he is getting a lower level version of the same general ed instruction - lowered expectations in terms of length, sentence complexity and vocabulary, and repeated hints instead of instruction. What he doesn’t get is a different method of writing instruction or any new writing tools that might be appropriate to his diagnosis.

I frequently see something similar in the ES classroom - kids diagnosed with dyslexia need a very specific type of Orton Gillingham instruction because they don’t implicitly learn the sound symbol association like neurotypical kids. They also need an OG type spelling instruction instead of the random list of words most teachers give. Plus explicit instruction in syllabification. Dyslexic kids almost never get this instruction. Instead, a para is used to lump them in with the lowest reading group and they just get more time and more prompts, and don’t actually learn to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with all this and thank you for stating that so well PP. I am a special educator that has worked in home school model classrooms AND my own child is currently a student in a home school model classroom (not on an IEP). There are a mix of levels in her classroom and definitely high achieving kids. There is a very strong teacher and a special educator that plugs into her classroom. The class is small and when the kids with IEP's are pulled into groups, she gets way more attention then she would in a regular classroom. In fact, she gets math enrichment because the teacher has the time to do a group with the kids that are higher in math. What is really nice is that the kids with needs are already identified and getting support. There are actually not that many behaviors, nothing that seems out of the ordinary. As opposed to another classroom in the school where there is a child who is currently throwing chairs and its going to take a long process to get the supports needed. My child is thriving in the HSM classroom. I purposely requested this classroom because I knew the strength of the teacher and I believe in the model and I knew my child would benefit from the class size and attention.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

You are entirely missing the point. ESOL kids are generally not a problem except for when the teacher doesn't speak the language and uses the other kids to translate.

ESOL kids often take up a lot of a teacher's time. Yes, there are ESOL teachers but they have to support a lot of students just like the SPED teachers do. MANY ESOL kids are reading and writing below grade level. It can be challenging to communicate with their family. Many (not all) of their families have a lot of life factors making it harder for their kids to learn (food insecurity, moving frequently, living in small spaces with a lot of family making sleeping and studying hard, expectations for taking care of siblings and on and on).A lot of people chiming in here do not have classroom experience and it shows.

Ok, and, this isn't about ESOL students. The ideal would be to put them in dual language schools/classes so they can learn in both languages and learn English more easily but we don't do that. However, this is about kids on IEPs who may not need a specialized classroom being dumped in it and possibly ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

If there are 18 students in a classroom. 4 are high needs, 4 moderate needs, 4 low needs, 4 no SN. Who do you think they will cater to? The high and moderate needs. They slow down the curriculum and the low needs SN kids often get ignored. We had this happen to our child. It was a hot mess of a year and we had to pay for private services, which meant pulling our child out of school multiple times a week and additional tutoring to make sure the academics were grade level.

Again, some of you have never worked in a school and need to stay in your lane. Students with IEPs have a sped teacher that works with them. Usually in an inclusion classroom the main teacher is actually freed up to spend more time with the highest performing students because the teacher that works with the students with IEPs can oftentimes fold lower performing students into their small group.

But please, continue to debate those of us that work in inclusion settings.

But, teacher, please don’t denigrate parents with “stay in your lane”. Your practice is actually the problem because it means that kids with IEPs do not get to participate with the “high performing” students and instead are folded in with the “lower performing”. This description means you make two fundamental misunderstandings - that the kids on the IEP aren’t high performing intellectually AND that the instruction that’s necessary for the IEP kid is the same kind of instruction that the low performing kid needs.

My DC on an IEP with ADHD, Reading Disorder NOS and dysgraphia has a high IQ. He belongs in the advanced or honors environment. But, he has very specific writing instruction needs due to his language disorder diagnosis - that’s why he has an IEP, because he qualifies for “special instruction”. What happens when you group him with “lower performing students” is that he is getting a lower level version of the same general ed instruction - lowered expectations in terms of length, sentence complexity and vocabulary, and repeated hints instead of instruction. What he doesn’t get is a different method of writing instruction or any new writing tools that might be appropriate to his diagnosis.

I frequently see something similar in the ES classroom - kids diagnosed with dyslexia need a very specific type of Orton Gillingham instruction because they don’t implicitly learn the sound symbol association like neurotypical kids. They also need an OG type spelling instruction instead of the random list of words most teachers give. Plus explicit instruction in syllabification. Dyslexic kids almost never get this instruction. Instead, a para is used to lump them in with the lowest reading group and they just get more time and more prompts, and don’t actually learn to read.

As a parent, I did stay in my lane to advocate for my child. My lane is to advocate, support, educate, and get outside help from providers who understand my child and supplement their education. This poster is 100% correct. My child's diagnosis had nothing to do with their academic abilities and dumbing down the academics was the worst possible thing you could do. My IEP kid has always been a high preforming kid. Don't assume IEP kids cannot work at the same level as other kids or even at a higher level. Your post "teacher" is offensive as you are what failed my child. I am so thankful for others providing their resources, therapist and ideas on this board and other places that guided me. Teachers like you fail children like mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an elementary para for sped inclusion (our school calls these Resource teachers and Resource assistants) and we absolutely group all IEP’s in one class per grade level whenever possible. Otherwise we just haven’t enough bodies to go around. We’d love more staff but the county won’t give it. I regularly monitor behavior/attention for 5-6 students at a time.

Not all kids with IEP's have the same needs so it's not fair to them to be placed in a special education classroom based on having an IEP vs. their needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with all this and thank you for stating that so well PP. I am a special educator that has worked in home school model classrooms AND my own child is currently a student in a home school model classroom (not on an IEP). There are a mix of levels in her classroom and definitely high achieving kids. There is a very strong teacher and a special educator that plugs into her classroom. The class is small and when the kids with IEP's are pulled into groups, she gets way more attention then she would in a regular classroom. In fact, she gets math enrichment because the teacher has the time to do a group with the kids that are higher in math. What is really nice is that the kids with needs are already identified and getting support. There are actually not that many behaviors, nothing that seems out of the ordinary. As opposed to another classroom in the school where there is a child who is currently throwing chairs and its going to take a long process to get the supports needed. My child is thriving in the HSM classroom. I purposely requested this classroom because I knew the strength of the teacher and I believe in the model and I knew my child would benefit from the class size and attention.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

You are entirely missing the point. ESOL kids are generally not a problem except for when the teacher doesn't speak the language and uses the other kids to translate.

ESOL kids often take up a lot of a teacher's time. Yes, there are ESOL teachers but they have to support a lot of students just like the SPED teachers do. MANY ESOL kids are reading and writing below grade level. It can be challenging to communicate with their family. Many (not all) of their families have a lot of life factors making it harder for their kids to learn (food insecurity, moving frequently, living in small spaces with a lot of family making sleeping and studying hard, expectations for taking care of siblings and on and on).A lot of people chiming in here do not have classroom experience and it shows.

You know many of us live in small spaces just fine. Sorry but we choose to spend our money on private services as we wanted our child to have a future. You seem to make excuses vs. spending that time helping those families. If they are food insecure, start a food pantry. And, while you are at it a clothing pantry too. Help get their basic needs met. Many of us do have the experience and many of us spend a small fortune on our kids because of people like you failing to provide what our kids need. You sound lazy. And, this isn't about ESOL students. At my child's school, some of the nicest kids were the ESOL kids. Same with their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an elementary para for sped inclusion (our school calls these Resource teachers and Resource assistants) and we absolutely group all IEP’s in one class per grade level whenever possible. Otherwise we just haven’t enough bodies to go around. We’d love more staff but the county won’t give it. I regularly monitor behavior/attention for 5-6 students at a time.

Not all kids with IEP's have the same needs so it's not fair to them to be placed in a special education classroom based on having an IEP vs. their needs.

I don't think you know what an IEP is or All the school is required to handle one. If a special ed teachers needed for an IEP then yes makes sense to have them all in one room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a 3 yo with what appear to be mild special needs and are zoned for Oakland Terrace ES in MCPS. I have seen some posts on DCUM complaining that IEP kids at this school were segregated from other children into.the same class. We do not have an IEP yet (have requested Child Find screening) but am paranoid if she gets one, this model will not work for her for a few reasons. I thought kids with IEPs should be integrated, not segregated.

They shouldn’t only be in certain classes. It is not Least Restrictive Environment. It is also not fair to the teachers. They are basically treating them as something akin to team taught classes. It is not inclusion.

Yes, it is inclusion. Kids are in the general education class all day with support pushing in as determined by IEP hours. That is the LRE. I taught the inclusion class for years and loved it. I did my best teaching when I had a special education co-teacher in the room with me.

It is not inclusion if they are grouped together in one class. A classroom that has a special Ed co-teacher is a great set up, but it is not inclusion- it is team taught. Team taught is more inclusive than other more segregated environments, but it is not full inclusion. In the set up of having the students with IEPs grouped in one or two classes, means that they are excluded from the classes with no students with IEPs.

This is not what the law means. As long as they are in class with some GenEd students, FAPE is fulfilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

If there are 18 students in a classroom. 4 are high needs, 4 moderate needs, 4 low needs, 4 no SN. Who do you think they will cater to? The high and moderate needs. They slow down the curriculum and the low needs SN kids often get ignored. We had this happen to our child. It was a hot mess of a year and we had to pay for private services, which meant pulling our child out of school multiple times a week and additional tutoring to make sure the academics were grade level.

Again, some of you have never worked in a school and need to stay in your lane. Students with IEPs have a sped teacher that works with them. Usually in an inclusion classroom the main teacher is actually freed up to spend more time with the highest performing students because the teacher that works with the students with IEPs can oftentimes fold lower performing students into their small group.

But please, continue to debate those of us that work in inclusion settings.

But, teacher, please don’t denigrate parents with “stay in your lane”. Your practice is actually the problem because it means that kids with IEPs do not get to participate with the “high performing” students and instead are folded in with the “lower performing”. This description means you make two fundamental misunderstandings - that the kids on the IEP aren’t high performing intellectually AND that the instruction that’s necessary for the IEP kid is the same kind of instruction that the low performing kid needs.

My DC on an IEP with ADHD, Reading Disorder NOS and dysgraphia has a high IQ. He belongs in the advanced or honors environment. But, he has very specific writing instruction needs due to his language disorder diagnosis - that’s why he has an IEP, because he qualifies for “special instruction”. What happens when you group him with “lower performing students” is that he is getting a lower level version of the same general ed instruction - lowered expectations in terms of length, sentence complexity and vocabulary, and repeated hints instead of instruction. What he doesn’t get is a different method of writing instruction or any new writing tools that might be appropriate to his diagnosis.

I frequently see something similar in the ES classroom - kids diagnosed with dyslexia need a very specific type of Orton Gillingham instruction because they don’t implicitly learn the sound symbol association like neurotypical kids. They also need an OG type spelling instruction instead of the random list of words most teachers give. Plus explicit instruction in syllabification. Dyslexic kids almost never get this instruction. Instead, a para is used to lump them in with the lowest reading group and they just get more time and more prompts, and don’t actually learn to read.

It's honestly hard to respond bc you're conflating multiple issues. First, just bc students with IEPs are in the same class, it doesn't make it the "low performing class". That is an assumption you are making that is completely untrue.

The rest of your comment sounds like you disagree with your child's IEP and accommodations. You are more than welcome to remove your child's IEP. We have parents refuse them all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with all this and thank you for stating that so well PP. I am a special educator that has worked in home school model classrooms AND my own child is currently a student in a home school model classroom (not on an IEP). There are a mix of levels in her classroom and definitely high achieving kids. There is a very strong teacher and a special educator that plugs into her classroom. The class is small and when the kids with IEP's are pulled into groups, she gets way more attention then she would in a regular classroom. In fact, she gets math enrichment because the teacher has the time to do a group with the kids that are higher in math. What is really nice is that the kids with needs are already identified and getting support. There are actually not that many behaviors, nothing that seems out of the ordinary. As opposed to another classroom in the school where there is a child who is currently throwing chairs and its going to take a long process to get the supports needed. My child is thriving in the HSM classroom. I purposely requested this classroom because I knew the strength of the teacher and I believe in the model and I knew my child would benefit from the class size and attention.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

You are entirely missing the point. ESOL kids are generally not a problem except for when the teacher doesn't speak the language and uses the other kids to translate.

ESOL kids often take up a lot of a teacher's time. Yes, there are ESOL teachers but they have to support a lot of students just like the SPED teachers do. MANY ESOL kids are reading and writing below grade level. It can be challenging to communicate with their family. Many (not all) of their families have a lot of life factors making it harder for their kids to learn (food insecurity, moving frequently, living in small spaces with a lot of family making sleeping and studying hard, expectations for taking care of siblings and on and on).A lot of people chiming in here do not have classroom experience and it shows.

You know many of us live in small spaces just fine. Sorry but we choose to spend our money on private services as we wanted our child to have a future. You seem to make excuses vs. spending that time helping those families. If they are food insecure, start a food pantry. And, while you are at it a clothing pantry too. Help get their basic needs met. Many of us do have the experience and many of us spend a small fortune on our kids because of people like you failing to provide what our kids need. You sound lazy. And, this isn't about ESOL students. At my child's school, some of the nicest kids were the ESOL kids. Same with their families.

DP. I can't believe your response to this poster includes calling them lazy for very clearly explaining why you made a ridiculous generalization. As for your solution, it would shock you how many schools already do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's very typical to group students with IEPs rather than spreading them across all classes. It's much easier to provide support that way.

This is not ok. Parents need to file complaints when they see this.

Then you better also open your checkbooks because there are only a certain amount of SPED teachers on schools budgets and they aren't able to split themselves into multiple places at once.

If its not okay to group students with IEPs rather than spreading them across all classes, what is your proposed suggestion to deliver service hours? If there are more children with IEPs than there are classes, how else can you manage? At some point, there are multiple children with IEPs in a given classroom.

Nobody is saying that there should be only 1 IEP student in each class. Why do you think anyone is saying that?

Then what is being said? Parents need to file complaints when they see this...this being a grouping of students with IEPs. What is a group then--3, 4, 5? How many students with IEPs make a group?

The title of this thread is: Is it typical for elementary to group all IEP kids together in the same class

That means if there are 20 students with IEPs, theoretically those 20 students would be grouped together in one class. Obviously, that number will be dependent on the number of students with IEPs in any given grade. Is that what "inclusion" means?

That would depend on whether there were also gen-ed students in the class, and what content is taught. I do not believe "inclusion" requires that all classrooms have an equal number of students with IEPs.

Correct.

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Anonymous wrote:1 person asked for whatever reason. Trust me. NO ONE cares. OP kept going on about wanting her kid away from others with IEPs because it wouldn't be good for her so I think posters were trying to ascertain what is the diagnosis that would require this?.

OP here. Feel free to quote where I said I did not want my child around other children with IEPs.

On page 3 at 20:17 you said "My concern is around concentrating the highest needs students in one classroom and how that will affect my child." Personally, I think it's fine to be concerned about that, but you have to expect that it will rub people the wrong way. Many people here are parents of students with high needs, and social and educational exclusion, stereotypes, and assumptions are a big part of our lives.

You think it's reasonable to go from "My concern is around concentrating the highest needs students in one classroom and how that will affect my child." to "OP kept going on about wanting her kid away from others with IEPs "?

I don't think that's reasonable. In fact a natural consequence of the model that I am concerned about is that the children in the other classes are being kept away from childen with IEPs.

Well, I wasn't the one accusing you of "going on about" it. But it does seem like you're concerned about something. Just trying to guess, is it that the inclusion classroom staff will be overwhelmed trying to meet the needs, or that the inclusion classroom atmosphere will be noisy and often disrupted, or... that your child might be the only child with an IEP in a non-inclusion classroom because all the other children with IEPs are in another room? I really don't know. But clearly you think something about an inclusion class model is not going to work for your child.

Have you never been concerned about your child or how well the school can serve them?

Also, you are using a term "inclusion class model" without clearly defining it. If the definition is that it is a class that includes children with IEPs and children without IEPs, then no that does not concern me. That's what I want for my child. What would concern me is if it were called an "inclusion class" but is in fact a class for children with IEPs, which is not what I could consider "inclusion". But I am new to this.

Of course I have been concerned about it. I think most people are concerned about that at least some of the time.

"Inclusion" doesn't have a firm definition that I'm aware of, you'd have to look at Maryland state law for it. But generally, an inclusion class means that some of the children have IEPs and some of them don't, and grade level content is taught (as well as other levels as needed). The children with IEPs are being *included* in a classroom that is otherwise a general education classroom and teaches to grade level standards, but there's also an additional teacher and additional staff so that everything can be managed and all services on everyone's IEP can be provided. The "10:6" program at Garrison Elementary is an example of that type of classroom.

A class for only children with IEPs and not any children without IEPs would not be called an "inclusion" class. Some schools have classrooms that are only for students with IEPs, but they usually aren't just a room for everyone with an IEP no matter what the IEP is. That would be illegal because each child is entitled to the Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) in which they can access the curriculum, and lots of children with IEPs are just fine in gen-ed classrooms with a little support. So in DCPS, there are several different types of self-contained classroom and placement depends on what is on each child's IEP. But there are also students with IEPs who are in the general education classrooms with push-in support (meaning aides or teachers who visit the classroom).

You might like to look at this DCPS summary, as an example.
https://dcps.dc.gov/page/academic-programs-and-inclusion

So theoretically if there were a class with 18 children and 14 had IEPs, while the other classes in the grade had no children with IEPs, would that be considered an "inclusion" model?

Yes, this is inclusion because the students with IEPs are still being educated with students who do not have IEPs. That is all LRE means. There is no ratio, there is no proportion, there is nothing guaranteeing students be divided in certain ways or that every class must have a student with an IEP. Whether you like the ratio or agree with the staffing does not matter. The school only has to legally prove that there are also students without IEPs also in the class. Inclusion is not transitive and does not need to apply to students without IEPs. Students without IEPs are not mandated to be educated with students who have IEPs, they can be educated with only students who do not have IEPs. So, yes, it is inclusion to have one class with a mix and three classes with none, because the one class is not only IEPs, it is a mix.

Thank you. End of thread.

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Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

No, sorry. That’s not what “restricting” means under the law.